Comments on: Apple only other company that can release a game console

Don Reisinger thinks Apple is in a prime position to enter the gaming industry and solidify itself as a major player. But is Apple willing to do that?

[kkrewell]

Don,

Apple has a game platform - iPhone and iPod Touch. If Apple makes those sucessful and sells enough games on them, then, maybe, Jobs will become more interested in games.

Entering the game console market takes very deep pockets. Both Microsoft and Sony lost billions launching new consoles and it takes years to break even. Why would Apple want to take them on directly? It makes no sense.

[dd13reis]

Apple has deep pockets, number one. Number two, Sony and Microsoft were getting into the game without any competitive advantages and without the kind of hype Apple has. We can't downplay the significance of that hype.

-Don

[anthonyatsushi]

I have to say that I really disagree with the idea that the iPhone and the iPod Touch can be considered as legitimate gaming platforms. So far, the most fun games that I have downloaded for my iPhone have been games that could have been played on Atari with spruced up graphics. I haven't even seen one legitimate attempt at a long form game on the App Store.

As far as a gaming platform, I definitely agree with everyone here that maybe this isn't the right time.

[rathofbuns]

I disagree. Apple is spread too thin as it is, as evidenced by having to push Leopard back, the botched iPhone 3G/MobileMe launch, etc.. Apple TV has been a flop and Apple certainly is NOT playing nice with developers as they (developers) seem to be extremely frustrated with Apple's "policies" regarding the App Store. Apple can't seem to get its head on straight and only just barely released a stable release of the iPhone software 2.1, which still doesn't include Push functionality for non-native apps as was expected.

Apple needs to 1. get their house in order and 2. be much more cooperative and communicate much better with its existing developers before they could reasonably take on a huge task such as launching a gaming system.

[dd13reis]

You really think Apple is spread too thin? That's interesting, I never thought of it that way. I think Apple has much more to do. I agree that it has made mistakes, but I don't think it's because of too much going on. I think it's because Apple has made some dumb decisions.

interesting take, though. Thanks for it!

-Don

[canberra_photographer]

Ah, Apple TV is a flop? No, it's a work in progress. There's an idea. It can download movies and music already, add powerful gaming ability to it's sleek form factor and the Apple TV can become Apple's contender in the gaming sector.

[Zen-Masta]

I agree. Also just because they are successful in other areas doesn't mean they can break into the console market. Apple TV didn't break the DVR market like they hoped. It's also a much different breaking into an established market vs pioneering an emerging market such as the music industry was back in the day. Microsoft already published its own games prior to XBOX so that was a big help.

[dd13reis]

The Apple TV was a failure, but that was because Apple didn't really care what happened to it. Steve Jobs himself said it was just a hobby device in the beginning. I think a game console would be different.

If it acquires Take-Two like I said it should, it won't have to worry about publishing games prior to release, it would have already had that.

-Don

[Zen-Masta]

oh, and when I said I agree, I meant I agreed with the previous comment :)

[azzuro2006]

I disagree. With the exception of Nintendo, no company has made good money in the game console market over the entire product cycle - returns on investment are pretty terrible. Nintendo makes money because they go after casual gamers and refuse to loss lead on the hardware. Apple is not the type of company that would want to loss lead on a product. Also, I don't know how much synergy there is between what they are doing already and game consoles notwithstanding games on iphone. They are just scratching the surface on the handset market which is much more lucrative than game consoles. If they do decide to get into this space it will be many years down the line when either Sony and or Microsoft abandon the market completely. In fact the most logical solution for the game industry is for Microsoft and Sony to merge their game divisions - but Sony is way to stubborn and proud to allow that to happen.

[MastaShake1138]

No. No they shouldn't merge.

Competition is exactly what drives lower prices for us consumers. That's a major contributing factor as to why you can now buy your PS3 for $399 and an XBOX360 (the one with a HDD) for what, $299? You want to pay more for systems and games?

Microsoft and Sony are also, as you somwhat pointed out, competing for the same base - that being hardcore gamers. Nintendo is clearly not. If they merged, there would be one company fufilling that base.

So no. They should absolutely NOT merge.

And also, in reference to Don's blog - Apple is NOT a hardware company. Yes, they are vertically integrated to the point where yes, the whole package, physically and otherwise are overseen by them. But, as Steve Jobs has even said himself (at the All Things D: Digital Conference), Apple learned from Microsoft that it's really in the software. They believe that the user end experience is really on how you use it aka software aka interface aka GUI.

[dd13reis]

Sony has made a ton of money in the space. It lost money this time around (because it made dumb mistakes), but by and large, it was successful.

Microsoft also turned a profit. I never said it was easy, but I think it can be done and only Apple can do that.

-Don

[jaycustom]

Plus..who is going to pay $1,200 for a console that is basically the same if not less than the xbox or PS3?! Because we all know it will be overpriced like all other Apple products.... stick to doing what you do best Apple..making PCs.

[dd13reis]

Who said anything about $1,200?

I don't think what Apple does best is making computers at all. I think it makes entertainment products, which is what it does best. Don't you?

-Don

[DrtyDogg]

you said Apple, and that's what they do. Take an existing product, slap an apple on it and double the price.

[HighwayHome]

For Apple to have a better chance in succeeding in the video game console business, they will have to work towards two goals:

1) They will have to establish an online network which functions smoothly, similar to that of Microsoft's Network for the XBoX. In contrast, Sony's flimsy online network has hurt the PS3's appeal.

2) Have gaming software developed which works both with the Apple Game Console and various Mac Computers. Since software which works both with a gaming console and a computer has yet to become reality, Apple can take advantage of this unchartered territory and get a leg up on the competition. Just like you can play music & videos in various devices, why shouldn't you be able to play games in multiple devices?

[dd13reis]

Right and right.

Don't you think that will happen?

-Don

[xMinceManx]

The second idea I think would give them a good chance but they would have huge hardware problems unless they dumb everything down.

[Prince2k3]

@HighwayHome must have never owned a ps3 or played on the ps3 network to make a comment like that. please make comments on things you actually know about then. I think apple shouldn't make consoles but make the OS for one. it would be better and for them in the long run since the OS is what apple is really all about.

[tramlaw4reve]

@Prince2k3... are you serious??? I have a PS3 and I luv it with it's gaming and blu-ray combo capability, but it's online (PSN) network leaves a lot to be desired. I used to own an Xbox 360 and it's online network, well it was very good. Apple has the potential to really compete against Microsoft in this aspect, no doubt.

[alenas]

Apple never got proper development environment on Mac's - so game developers can not even write high frame-rate, nice looking games on a Mac. So seems like they do not have any experience in gaming platforms and probably apple developers are useless anyway and would not be able to deliver that, unless some open source developers would write a good replacement for DirectX (or at least take OpenGL to the next level).
Everything Apple has was created by open source developers - so Apple is just taking all the credit...

[dd13reis]

I think the Mac environment is an entirely different beast. You're absolutely right in saying that Mac OS X is not a gaming platform, but that doesn't mean Apple can't win out in the console space and use that to further game development on OS X.

-Don

[Ksederst]

I don't really see apple entering into this market due to their inability to create price competitive hardware as other people mentioned.

Really if it was going to be anyone, I would think Valve would have the best chance. They have no hardware background, but they do have Steam, which is by far the best PC software distribution system. They also would have a fantastic first party developer. I'd seriously consider a steam console.

[dd13reis]

Valve? Wow, now that's one I haven't heard in a long time.

Interesting take. Thanks for it!

-Don

[aztec92154]

Wow... Apple buying Valve would make great sense.

[JMax19]

Apple tried to make a console once - the Pippen, which was released in the early 90s by Bandai in Japan. It was terrible, and a huge flop. Apple doesn't want to create a new console because they created the dev kits for just about every developer out there (the Gamecube ran on a version of the Power PC chip, and was very close to a Mac) and that's more lucrative than creating a console. Microsoft lost money on the Xbox, they lost money on the Xbox 360 until recently, and Sony is still losing money on the PS3. (Nintendo always makes money, but that's because they're Nintendo. Apple can't do what Nintendo does because they don't have the IP to use.) Apple has also been antagonistic towards game designers dating back to the Apple II days in their consumer products.

But the bottom line is this: Apple can't afford to lose the kind of money it would take to produce a game console.

[dd13reis]

The Pippen was a joke and that was long before Apple was on its game. Creating dev kits isn't more lucrative from a more global frame of reference: people play Apple's console, they buy more Apple products.

I think Apple CAN afford to lose the money by getting into gaming and if it's smart, it'll make money on the deal. Nintendo can, why can't Apple?

[cpfort]

So you're saying developers can spend months and possibly millions of dollars developing a game only to be told by Apple that it doesn't pass their secretive vetting process? Sorry, try again?

F that. Apple needs to learn to work with the developer community if it wants to break into gaming (which I seriously doubt it does).

[Thomas, David]

The process does not work that way. The truth is, anyone with half a brain could read the contract they agreed to, and create an application that would be accepted into the App store.

Duplicating a process to pull hits away from iTMS, just what idiot thought Apple would want to put that same application into iTMS. Does CBS run ABC ads?!

[dd13reis]

That's a different space altogether. We can't compare Apple's dumb moves in the App Store to its future in the video games market. That's not fair.

-Don

[DrtyDogg]

@Thomas David, Except there is no definition as to what they will approve for the App store. There is a list of things that will not even be considered, but even if your app steers clear of that list they still can and have rejected apps for their own reasons which are not listed anywhere. There are other programs that steal the show from itunes and other emeded apps on the device, but yet they get through.

[omonomono]

Jmax said it. Microsoft spent billions to break into the console scene and it is only reaping success in the past year, and Apple has dabbled in the gaming side of the hardware market before so they are not entire strangers.

I think Apple is too busy being lucrative to really take that kind of risk. More likely, companies like Nintendo will seek to lift their hardware into the mainstream and adopt the tactics Apple is using right now, rather than Apple trying to make a splash in a hotly contested space that is risky and have probably a low ROI.

[dd13reis]

It's risky, ROI is a little low, and profits will run their course after a long time. Sounds like the cell phone business, doesn't it?

-Don

[NewsReader_]

Is this satire?

You have got to be kidding me. Apple is to gaming as stripes are to plaid. In other words, they do not go together. As Mr. Spock would say, there is a serious flaw in your logic. Just because they do a great job with phones and PC's does not mean they will be successful with game consoles. Besides, that is just the tip of the iceberg. Anyone can make a console. Who is going to make games for it? Who is going to buy it? A console from apple would likely cost over $1000 because they do not have the cash to subsidize it. They won't even do that the the friggin iPhone and they sell like hotcakes.

[dragonsky1]

I think you missed the section where he mentioned Apple has over $20 billion in cash sitting around, and growing every quarter. They can afford to subsidize a console if they ever chose to. And Apple has proved it can make affordable hardware and still have excellent profit margins, much like Nintendo. I think Apple has the ability to break into the console market, I just don't think it has the will at this time. It's got bigger cash cows to worry about.

[nic.disassembly]

i don't know about Apple...but what about Google?
an open source game system that runs multiple apps that integrate (cough Android cough)?
save money on R&D and just get homebrewers to fuel the network of downloadable games...
the "Little Big Planet" system

[random truth]

For many reasons. 1. Google Does nothing even close to gaming. 2. Have you ever played games on linux. Its just that open source gaming gets nowhere. It costs millions of dollars to make a good game and about a year of 9to5 work. 3. Did you know they had halo, battlefield 2121, warcraft, world of warcraft, and call of duty 4 for the mac.

[Thomas, David]

Game console by Apple? Highly unlikely. Apple only entered the MP3, and Phone fields because they felt they could do a better job. This is a simple summarization, but I fully believe is true. Successful game consoles offer enough diverse experience through their mechanics, and virtual worlds.

Unless Apple envisions, AND has the ability to create an inexpensive, full 3-D immersion concept there is not a chance. Apple doesn't see the world as a consumer of single purpose, Apple products. One caveat would be Apple creating a beefed up AppleTV unit, that supported existing, and future PC games, in fact I am sure many 3rd party attempts have already been successful in that area. The unit, is after all, just a PC.

Apple products may play games, but I am sure they aren't looking for the extra headache, and revenue loss of being a follower in the gaming world. So no, bottom-line, my crystal ball says "Apple will not create a game console, while Steve Jobs is CEO".

[HighwayHome]

"@HighwayHome must have never owned a ps3 or played on the ps3 network to make a comment like that. please make comments on things you actually know about then."

Hey Prince2k3, sorry to break your psychic know it all bubble, but I own both a PS3 and XBox 360. Maybe you should try using another mind reading crystal ball, instead of wasting your time telling others what to do. Your post was quite insightful in that it set the bar for the lowest common denominator. Well done!

[brianworkman]

Personally, I think Apple shoud do this, but in a different way. They should combine the Apple TV with the game console (and a DVR would be nice). Get developers to make games for a certain hardward min/max standard that would allow game play on the Apple Device, but also make that standard the same for all Mac game releases, thus making the gaming environment consistant throughout Apple devices, also allowing the games to be played on a iMac, MacBook Pro, etc. Give it some wireless game controls and sell it to me. Not everyone is going to pay say $2000 for a gaming rig, but if I got a blu-ray player, hd dvr, current apple tv function, plus a top gaming rig, yes I would buy that.

So to recap, just build the capabilities to play MAC games into a full speced Apple Media Server.

But is any of that really going to happen? That would be a BIG HECK NO!!

[Penguinisto]

Control? Funny, but there are times when I don't even use iTunes to load the iPod (I use gtkpod + Amarok). I have a much easier time using an iPod with third-party apps (or I can replace the firmware entirely with RockBox), than anyone could ever hope to do with a Zune.

That aside, there's one big, fat question missing: If there's no real potential in it, why would Apple bother? I know you (the author) say there is, and while it's true that Apple already has a decent infrastructure in place to do it, there are obstacles here.

First off, getting game developers to take on Yet Another Platform is going to be prohibitive vis-a-vis game consoles. Unlike computers, game consoles are highly proprietary, and there's little programatically that can be made cross-platform in a given game's codebase (meshes, textures, audio... sure. But code? Heh.)

Also, it took Microsoft 8 years of pouring billions of dollars down a big black hole (with a red ring around it) to just get a marketshare... (not to mention a lot of channel-stuffing and other accounting lies) and they have yet to realize any real profit from it yet. Apple isn't in the habit of falling into traps like that.

Finally, the next-next-gen (man I wish they'd quit using the term "next gen") consoles are likely nearing a testing phase in all three console competitor corps right now. If Apple was wanting a piece of that, they should have started the R&D three years ago.

/P

[dd13reis]

No. Game developers would like this because they can sell games on more platforms. These companies want more places to sell, not less.

Microsoft made countless mistakes with the Xbox and that's why it took that long. Apple can learn from those mistakes and do it right.

Who said Apple would need to compete in this generation? I think it should compete in the next one and start working on it now.

-Don

[random truth]

Dons deadicated to this.

[Penguinisto]

I agree that any company (not just game companies) want to expand their market, but one can only throw so many resources and codebase variations at a product before it becomes counter-productive.

[rapier1]

Yeah, its really hard to load music on a zune. Point it at a directory or two (even an itunes diretcory) and it loads the device. You really do need to be some sort of hyper geek to figure that one out. Its a wonder anyone can even get out bed in the morning knowing they'll need to face that at some point in the day.

[umbrae]

Yeah, just what the console market needs: A new console released every 15 months, even worse DRM, and Apple Green light on Game releases. Apple getting into the Game market will kill it. Apple may have fit well into the trendiness of music and mp3 players, but I doubt this will fly in the gaming market.

Honestly, they most I see apply doing is making you buy Zuma over and over on each revision on the iPhone and Touch they release.

[dd13reis]

No. You're applying current Apple practices to its future and that doesn't make sense. You need to apply what makes sense in the industry to Apple's decision-making ability to see if this is possible.

I think it is given that line of thinking.

-Don