Comments on: Why your grandma doesn't run desktop Linux

We've got to stop trying to force-feed the Linux desktop to the masses. It won't work, says CNET Blog Network contributor Matt Asay.

[sjwilliamsii]

I have worked with Microsoft operating systems since DOS 3.1 and I have tinkered with various Linux distros since Red Hat version 2. I work with Windows based desktops and servers every day. I have only 2 real complaints with any of the Linux distos.
First, there are too many to choose from. While there are similarities between them they are all just a little bit different. For example, do I need RPM's or gz.tars?
This brings me to my second complaint, Software availability. At home I use my computers for entertainment, playing games mostly. Software (game) developers do not usually make 'nix versions of the games I want to play. Sure I could build a VM just to play the games I enjoy but why? At work, we need ERP, CAD, Time and attendance, Financial, and ISO software, and while there are a couple (and I stress a couple) of options for some of these needs, they tend to be much more complicated to install and maintain (see first complaint). So until there are some legitimate software developers that are willing to come up with viable solutions for business I won't use it at work. Until I can go to Best Buy and grab a game I want to play off of the shelf that is 'Nix based, I won't really use it at home.

[OlsonBW]

"At home I use my computers for entertainment, playing games mostly."

I'll stop you right there. Stop using PCs for games and buy a Wii or PS3 (not a lamebox).

Do you use a boat to drive to work on the freeway? No? There is a reason for that.

[hellsyes]

Yeah. The hard part is the installation. Mac has it easy. They have like 5 product lines (not an exact count, cause i dont really care that much, so dont flame me about it). All with similar hardware. Try to get some generic x86 hardware and install OSX on it. I'm sure you'll run into a few headaches, while having to settle for something thats potentially illegal (OSX86).

Linux has to support pretty much everything. So, obviously, it takes longer to setup a linux box for grandma-- because grandma probably didn't buy her linux pre-installed. I've never bought preinstalled linux and I'm sure there are different experiences, but if the manufacturer is competent, the system should be just as easy to use as osx.

Once its setup, though, youre pretty much done. And when I have to support grandma, I don't even have to go to the house. I can just ssh in from home in most cases-- however rare those cases might be.

And the great part is... everything was free. No new hardware to buy (MAC). Also, no need for a $200 security suite (Windows).

If the person setting up the computer is competent, they can make it just as easy or easier to use than a mac.

Even on installs, the hardest part is usually the video card and the wireless chipset. I have yet to run into a configuration that was impossible to setup. Most of the blame for this falls on the chipset makers and video card manufacturers for either (a) not releasing drivers for linux or (b) not releasing specs so the community can make their own. Thankfully, the video card manufacturers are beginning to rethink their models (Thanks ATI/AMD).

Anyhow, if youre looking to do things on the cheap-- instead of buying grandma a $1200 macbook or imac, just take the worthless pentium 3 windows box she has now and install linux. Your pocketbook will thank you.

I have a macbook pro at home. I had a powerbook before that. I like mac hardware, especially their laptops. I've had the mbp for 3 years and I beat the crap out of it. It still runs though. I might even think about getting a new mbp when they update the product line. I like to think I'm not particular or have the need to have control over everything. I use linux because it works for me. I've tried everything else and it doesn't.

[OlsonBW]

"All with similar hardware. Try to get some generic x86 hardware and install OSX on it. I'm sure you'll run into a few headaches, while having to settle for something thats potentially illegal (OSX86). "

Other than being a control freak. WHY would you want to hobble together pieces of junk to run Mac OS X?

[OlsonBW]

You don't have to buy an iMac. You can buy a Mac Mini and it sounds like you have a monitor, keyboard, and mouse you can give her.

[yelvington]

My grandmothers don't run Linux because they're all in the grave. But my kids' grandmothers do. Yes, I did the installs. It took less time, and required no more intervention, than the maddening "first run" of Vista on my daughter's laptop.

Real people don't give a crap about operating systems. Linux works and gets out of grandma's way while she browses the Web and writes email. Can't ask for more.

[WordsmithONE]

For ease of use (yes, even for Grandma), check out the Asus Eee PC. The desktop interface (based, I believe, on Xandros) is even more user-friendly and geek-proof than a Mac OS. It is, bar none, the easiest machine I've ever configured; I literally had to do almost nothing to get my wireless, external CD/DVD, and (older) printer up and running. Of course, it's not a one-size-fits-all solution, but for ease of use, it is peerless.

[Sensible1]

Your average person doesn't want to run Linux, and why would (s)he?

Linux appeals to people who don't want to pay for software, people who (like Mac users) have a hatred of Microsoft (or a need to be different -- for the sake of being different), or people who have no real experience with computers and operating systems in the first place and don't mind starting the process over -- with the help of their Linux-evangelist friend, of course.

[OlsonBW]

I don't hate Microsoft. I just hate things that are a pain in the a**.

Even my wife, who sort of likes Microsoft, stopped using Windows because "every time I login I have to update the av software, update Windows, update this or that and all I was trying to do was check my e-mails. I'm not hassled by your (meaning my) Macs."

[JuggerNaut]

Not sure if I agree with you. I performed this experiment myself on my in-laws with great success before moving them to a Mac (after 2 years of using Linux). The reason, their Windows machine bit the dust and the only machine I had available to loan them was my Linux box. For them, the only requirements was web browsing, email and solitaire; which for Linux, is no big deal.

Linux is perfect for everyday general purpose computing use.

[oyster11]

To those insisting on an OS war, I say this:

Airlines:
a)MS Windows Airlines:
The flight is very expensive, but the checkin desk is
fabulous and glitzy, everyone makes you feel great,
the baggage checkin is painless, there is no queueing,
you get straight on the plane. The plane taxes down
the run way and takes off, no problems at all, then
suddenly 10 minutes into the flight the plane explodes
with no warning and for no apparent reason and
everyone is dead.

b)Unix/Linux Airlines:
Everyone turns up at the airport and brings piece an
aeroplane with them, they all sit around on the tarmac
and argue about what the plane should do and look
like, eventually they manage to build 5 or six
different planes, they call them all the same name,
but they do fly and the customers all *believed* they
got to their destinations.

c)MAC Airlines
The customers arrive at the airport, checkin desk is
very funky and modern in its design, with wacky curves
and great colour schemes - a designers dream. The
customers get on the plane which simply taxes up and
down for hours on the runway without actually going
anywhere. Having never experienced a proper
airline/aeroplane trip, the MAC users think this is
all there is to air travel and remain blissfully happy
and blissfully unaware of the fact they are going
nowhere.

Or perhaps the toaster Joke:

a)Windows toaster:
The windows toaster looks great, but sometime it just
won't make toast, it either comes out burnt or raw,
you have to unplug the toaster and plug it back in
again, each time you want to try and make some toast.
For every loaf of bread you buy you are forced to buy
a new toaster to go with it.

b)Linux toaster.
The linux toaster looks awful, it has wires crimped
together hanging out of it, the first time you make
toast with it it burns it, the next time its raw, you
read the man pages and invoke the command line, toast
-verbose -breadsize 50132 -eject -o z3321 > /dev/toast
| more and it makes perfect toast ever after.

c)MAC toaster
The MAC toaster has no settings or controls, it looks
very stylish, but will only accept proprietry size
bread which can only be bought from Apple main dealers
at 10 times the price of regular bread. The toast is
fine except that the size of the bread is so odd, you
can't actually eat the toast it produces, although it
does look good."

I found this on some forum, to whoever wrote it - you are so right. For my 2¢, Linux is the best OS - if you're willing to go through some pain setting it up (note: this is addressed to those who aren't like me - I actually enjoy mucking about in the command line).

[OlsonBW]

You ignorance is showing about Macs.

You were a lot closer for Windows and Linux.

With a Mac though, you are right about the lobby and the plane.

The difference is that there is no hassle getting on or off the plane. Security is very high but you don't get bothered with it. The airline takes care of that automatically.

The plane going very smoothly and arrives at your destination with you being very refreshed because you aren't hassled by anything or anyone unnecessary like with Windows and Linux airlines. And if you need something during the flight or have a question, nice, helpful people listen to what you ask and help you with what you need. No assuming what you need before you ask your question and no cryptic answers and no answers that appear to be helpful but aren't in any way.

[oldfard]

Ubuntu isn't the only Linux OS. I never could get Ubuntu to work for me. My wife is a great grandmother. Her computer OS is Xandros. she loves it.

[pablo Dante]

Three words: F U D !

[unixbiz]

We talk about two different things here. First of all, installing any OS on very old spare computer parts can cause issues with any OSs. But today new pc are so cheap that you can buy a new loaded Linux desktop for $200. For this new $200 Linux pc (you can buy from Walmart), you do not need to know Linux to use it. Everything is loaded and up in running with wireless networking, Skype, FifreFox browser, Open office,... This is the growing market in Europe, Asian and developing countries. Forget about the Linux vs Microsoft ideology battle. The cheap new Linux pc is here to stay and more people are buy these PCs and laptop.

[TxemiC]

See below initiative to ask Google to make a distro anyone can use

http://opinae.com/goobuntu/

[Jon N.]

Here is my experience with Linux. I completely switched over January 4th, 2008, when my M$ Vista Home Premium decided to wipe out all my music files after I moved the file to the desktop. The last straw for me, as I have had issues with XP Pro for about 4 years now.

I initially switched to SLED 10 SP1. It was a nice experience, but a bit unstable and restricted for my tastes, and I wanted more flexibility/stability. I tried SImply MEPIS, and found it to be a great system for newbies, but user support was a bit anemic. I then went to Ubuntu, and I am satisfied. I did have to do a bit of downloading and tweaking, but it was the same type of download and install issues I had with Windoze except for the constant breakdowns of the OS stack. Windows is like a game of Jenga. You keep taking out parts from the bottom (un-installs), and placing the new software on top. Eventually he stack breaks down, and you have to start over again. after about 15 re-installs, you can't use the registration key anymore, and have to either call their CSR's, or buy a new disk of Windoze. My computer is now stable for the first time in its life, and I am much happier!

I miss my iTunes, but I am sure the Ubuntu community is working on a solution for it. When I let the Ubuntu Community know about my single problem with multi-session burns, they looked into it, and are changing the entire default CD/DVD burner to Brasero in their next release, Hardy Heron 8.04. I look forward to its release, and to the next releases of openSUSE, and Simply MEPIS. KDE 4.0 is going to be great! Maybe Grandma would like Kubuntu or Simply MEPIS. As for Windoze, if I am forced to buy proprietary, I'll go mac. Otherwise, I'm sticking with Linux!

[ccie5000]

Linux is no easier or harder to use than Windows. The Windows advantage is that most people already have experience using it, and it comes pre-installed on new machines.

If you're going to switch from XP/Office 2003 to Vista/Office2007 you might as well switch to Linux. Either way, you'll be learning a completely new user interface. Your Windows experience buys you very little on Vista/Office 2007 except frustration at having to relearn how to do things you used to know how to do quickly and easily on XP/Office 2003.

Microsoft doesn't provide tech support to individuals, primarily because they have monopoly pricing power, and can make billions without having to provide service to all those difficult users. Whether it's Windows or Linux, tech support comes primarily from hardware vendors, friends and the Internet.

Grandma can learn and live with Linux just as easily as with Windows, but if she doesn't have to move to Vista/Office 2007 she's better off running whatever she's used to.

[kiwibuntu]

Errr ... my grandparents _are_ using Linux (Xubuntu). Why? Because they started using the internet and email etc for the first time and nobody was able to offer round the clock support for Windows (spyware, viruses etc etc). Their system just works and it runs on the hardware available within the budget available.

For myself, I recently bought a budget laptop in New Zealand from a chain store (Dick Smiths) with Ubuntu (Gutsy) preinstalled. It _just_ works - wireless under WPA etc etc. It is not what you'd call high-end hardware yet it can run Windows XP as a guest OS. And everything is very straight forward.

If you have trouble installing Ubuntu, try again later - it really is progressing very rapidly and is nice to use right now.

[shanwade]

After years of using Microsoft operating systems and going through all the maddening times of crashes and upgrades, I finally found peace with XP. Then my hard-drive crashed and I lost the recover disc and so I bravely tried a version of linux, because it was free. It was Ubuntu and basically was useless with any major internet usage. Ubuntu, as most geeks surely know isn't compatible with real-player, windows media and quicktime, so you can forget about watching much of the media content online. I really do not "get" linux and I'm done with it as I found the perfect OS and computer, it's Apple. I just bought a used powermac on ebay and it had OSX 10.4.11 and work beautiful. Surfing the internet and watching media is the best experience and I have had no "incompatibility" issues.

[arunkj]

My parents who are total newbies to computers have had trouble understanding when to single click and when to double click, let alone installing an OS. If you think about it, it opens up a huge question of making software intuitive enough to make people learn on the go. Windows is repetitive, yes, and that's the key to its success. if you hit upon an xserver problem in linux consider yourself screwed, even if you are a software programmer. Forget about your grandpas.

[OlsonBW]

My job for the last 20 years has been supporting DOS through Windows XP and soon Vista.

I've never been a Microsoft fan though and for the vast majority of time have not used any Microsoft products at home (more about that later).

I've turned to quite a few other OSs which have worked far better for me. From Multi-DOS to OS/2 to Linux and most recently Mac as my main OS at home.

That doesn't mean that I don't still use OS/2 and Linux (as well as BeOS and others). Those are all fine and good and -- could -- be my main OS.

But as Matt Asay noted, some people actually have work that needs to get done and don't always have time to fiddle with stuff. That's why I use a Mac as my main computer.

I do spend several hours a week using Ubuntu but I cannot imagine trying to support it over the phone with relatives the way I can with Macs.

$599 for a Mac Mini is NOT too much to pay for a very usable computer. One that I know I literally can setup in 15 minutes including setting up user accounts, software, and printers AND training.

I just put all the apps the person is going to use on the Dock and take all the others off it. If I do need to help them with something it is very easy to help them. I talk american (not geek) to them using their own words and phrases without talking up or down to them and things are extremely smooth.

I also have easy options for setting up remote access to their computers that is very secure and very easy to use (I put an icon on the dock to run their side).

Yes you could do this with Linux but it isn't as easy as it is with a Mac.

Anyone in my family that insists on using Windows I do it this way. I take one of my older Macs over to their house, set that up for them, and make them use that for a week until I get to their Windows computer.

They are resistant to use the Mac but after a few times of not having anything else and wanting to do things including e-mail plus others, they do and find they like it. I soon have them using a Mac Mini or iMac (one person bought a Mac Pro) or one of the different Apple laptops.

[OlsonBW]

My wife insisted that she needed a Windows computer at home so she could work on some Excel spreadsheets. I told her she could do this on our Macs, even with MS Office for Macs (which I don't have).

She insisted on a Windows computer so I told her fine but SHE was responsible for keeping her AV software, Windows, and her apps up to date.

She ended up buying a Windows laptop with XP on it.

Fast forward three or four months and I "caught" my wife using my old 800mhz G4 Powerbook and found NeoOffice on it and found that she could open up her Excel spreadsheets, update them, save them as Excel files and everything SHE needed to do just worked.

Why was she using the PowerBook? Because, she said, she was sick of every time she logged into the Windows computer she was nagged about updating the AV software, nagged about Windows updates, nagged about application updates. With the PowerBook (which I rarely use) she just logged in and did what she wanted to do. Check her e-mail, work on a spreadsheet, do some web surfing.

She gave the laptop away to her niece who didn't update the AV software or anything else, got viruses on the computer and they had to call the company that made the laptop to get a recover CD sent to them to get Windows re-installed since the CD didn't come with it and windows was so ****ed up with viruses that it couldn't be fixed.

Several of the nieces friends (she's a college student at a major university) have laptops with Windows, Linux, and Macs. She -- really -- wants a MacBook as they are the coolest and you don't have to do anything with them but "fun stuff" like music and IM and facebook, etc.

No accounting for taste, they have a XBox360. I'll turn her around on that eventually to a Wii or PS3.

[ZAlif]

What make linux cool to me?? Now I typing this message with my computer with no hard disk.. I'm using Kubuntu.
my hard disk broke last week.. I still can surf the internet, open my yahoo messenger (kopete) , read online comic, pdf doc and many others basic thing (limited with no Hd). (using kubuntu liveCD)
I started using computer back in 1996, with win95, quite hard to install because lack of knowledge of Dos.. same as 98, and Xp.. still use dos like display when installing Os.. I convert to Linux because fed up with virusses, spyware in windows, yet it is free.. It is very.. very.. free up to you can ask them (ubuntu) to send the cd for you. When first time installing linux os (Kubuntu) I was shocked because it is too easy to install.. by using live cd, just click install icon.. and then it will install the os.. just like you want to install program in windows.. too easy.. but problem came when i want to setup graphic driver, and some firefox plugin, Ntfs drive, I surf the forum (there is nobodies around me know about linux, all of my friends use windows) to find solution.. Now all solve.. same as windows.. when I use it when I found problem and then ask my cousin, friends, forums etc.. Windows have the advantage because so many people use it, so I can refer to many people to solve and hardware manufacture always make driver for them.. not only linux have the driver problem.. windows too.. my friends gave me webcam, I can't find the driver, my LAN card also have slight problem with driver I can't find it when using windows.. It works well under linux..
I think when grandma got 3 computer allready install and fully setup with OS and driver it makes no diffrent.. not your grandma want to install the OS and the driver.. Except for windows.. maybe can infected by virus, adware and spyware that make your grandma crazy.. =)
So it is not so hard to try and learn some thing new.. hard at first.. when you got momentum it is easy.. even grandma can do it.

[william_hatch]

I discovered Linux about 5 years ago, when I became a teacher at a small school that had no technology plan whatsoever. Their idea of filtering the internet was to unplug the router. The computers ran Windows 98, and were totally plugged up with free downloads; a total mess. I didn't have the budget to buy licenses for XP, and much of the hardware was borderline to run it anyway. So, I researched and studied, and ended up with k12ltsp about 6 months later. Yes, it took me that long to figure it out - ipcop, dansguardian, k12ltsp, booting workstations from a floppy, ect. But, in the end, it rocked!

Now, years later, I teach at a different school. I've learned enough and played enough with Linux to feel comfortable setting it up for desktop use, and tutoring the new user. In fact, I'm slowly trying to build a small business doing just this. The type of users I'm targeting? Either the grandma that only needs a browser, email, office suite... the basics. Or, the person willing to take chances and who likes to play with operating systems. The average user who wants to go to Staples and buy a piece of software off the shelf is just not a candidate for Linux yes. Hopefully someday, when manufacturers include Linux drivers with components like printers and wireless cards, then it will become more mainstream. Until then, it is still a fringe thing.