Comments on: Linux 'desktop' still too geeky for mainstream users?

If an Ubuntu geek can't make Ubuntu work, what chance does the average user have? Linux enthusiasts need to start focusing on ease of use, at the expense of choice, if they want to make the Linux 'desktop' widely relevant.

[simonjoker]

GNU-Linux, like Net-, Free- and OpenBSD, is developed and maintained by volunteers, no? Are these operating systems threatened because my grandmother can't use them?

[forever4now]

Linux is entering the "desktop" of the average Joe, more and more every day. It just happens to be the "desktop" of a mobile computer (smartphone), rather than a traditional desktop computer. And as users shift a larger percentage of their daily computing to these devices (email, messaging, web browsing, etc.) they are essentially shifting a larger percentage of their computing to Linux. Thus, I don't really fret to much about Linux on the desktop. It's already happening.

[Dalkorian]

M$ marketing certainly has done it's job convincing everyone that problems in winblows are because the user is stupid and problems with any other OS is because that OS is junk. What a joke. Just wait until the next time WGA blows up in your faces and you discover your computer is now a useless brick until M$ feels like giving control of it back to you.

I haven't tried MINT yet mostly because I've had no trouble with Ubuntu. For me it's just worked. Nicely. Without enslaving me or locking my data up because of some idiotic screwup with a money grubbing control scheme foisted upon it's victims as a security update.

I don't pity today's winblows victims, I just laugh at them. That's all they deserve.

[jc364]

Very well written article. I think that the problem isn't that Linux is "geeky," but rather that it takes too much effort to get things to work. Please note I am not blaming the OS for this, but rather 3rd party drivers and proprietary formats.

For instance, I spent 2-3 days trying to get wireless to work on my laptop. This is not a problem with Linux, but rather with the lack of drivers and support from the computer manufacturer. And most users aren't geeky enough to figure out something like ndiswrapper, especially when you have to dig through the forums to find instructions for your particular wireless card.

This is probably an issue that is best solved with time. As the OS increases in popularity, more manufactures will increase support, and the problem will eventually be solved.

[mangecoeur]

Just moved to linux mint, and its been a dream - all video and audio working, including fiddly files with multiple soundtracks and subtitles that had often given me trouble.

But there's a wider problem - Its a bit ridiculous to expect an average user to figure out the mess of different distributions to choose one for them (though this point is weakened now that theres half a dozen Vista varieties to go with!)

And pre-installation is a BIG thing - i've installed windows on enough computer by now to know that the idea that everything works better is a LIE. This INCLUDES media, a fact no one ever seems to point out. With a new windows install sure i get mp3, but thats about it. DVD? install a program - either commercial or VLC. .mov? install. mp4? need to install that too. And HD video, and mkv, and so on. And of course there's all the drivers that then need to be updated by hand. None of these things are problems on a properly configured shop PC, but then they wouldn't be on a properly configured bought Linux PC either, just look at the Dell offerings.

[sayem5]

And I had to installed all of these software to get it working...

Asus Bundle DVD and Intel Chips software came with PC
ATI Catalyst Driver came with PC
Nero and DVD driver came with PC
Windows Update (It took me more 6 hours with SP1)
Comodo Firewall
Avira AntiVir
Ad-Aware
Malwarebytes Anti-Malware
Advanced SystemCare Free
CClener
OpenOffice.Org
VLC Media Player
iTunes with QuickTime
Firefox
Real Player
MSN Messenger
Yahoo Messenger
Yahoo Messenger
Skype
GIMP
Adobe Flash Player
Adobe Reader 9

[PrescottComputerGuy]

There are still too many oddities of Linux... things that just do not work right. Here is an example:

http://prescottcomputerguy.com/tmp/UbuntuCP.mov

The newest Ubuntu does make things a little better - gedit's right click now works. But overall, there are just too many things that *almost work. There are too many inconsistencies - look at Save and Print dialogs as an example. Ubuntu software cannot even be consistent on if you "Quit" an application or "Exit" it. This may seem minor, but consistency issues are important for ease of use, error reduction, and efficiency.

[kyle5434]

I too use PCLInuxOS as my main OS nowadays (having been a Windows user since 3.1). In my expereince, customizing it with codecs and apps is actually less work than in the Windows world. I'll admit that there was a learning curve in getting reoriented to the Linux world, though not overly cumbersome. And it's easy to forget that a lot of the stuff that became second nature in using Windows I *did* have to learn at some point in the past.

I've got my parents and my sister using PCLinuxOS now rather than Windows (mostly to avoid their continual virus and spyware infections), and they really don't notice any difference. And a couple of friends have jumped on board as well.

With the remastering functions built into PCLinuxOS, I just grab all the necessary codecs and applications from the repositories, run the remaster app, and viola - a new live CD with all the updates and commonly used apps, ready to install on any PC.

[mjc85250]

This is a very misleading article.

Most of the ?average end users? that I know (and I am in the service business) couldn't install a sound driver in Windows to save their life... any tech knows that Ubuntu Linux is much better at automatically installing drivers than Windows. And codec's are a snap with Ubuntu it simply prompts you to add them ? for obvious legal reasons Ubuntu cannot.

Agreed that manufacturers should provide recovery discs for Windows and Linux ? and guess what? they do -- The Dell Mini 9, and Acer netbooks include CDs to reload Linux as a pre-configured image for that machine. Dell offers Ubuntu on desktops and laptops too (with freaking recovery discs and codecs already set-up).

You can't compare an ?end user? installing Linux themselves to an end user buying a Windows machine pre-loaded from Dell. Have an end user use a Windows CD off the shelf and install it into any PC... GOOD LUCK!

An ?end user? should be buying a pre-configured Linux machine from Dell or a local company (RedSeven in Phoenix) that has already got linux set-up... Just like they would buy a Windows box.

Using Linux is easy, and that's all users want to do... they don't want to set it up any more then they want to set-up Windows or OSX.

I love most of your articles but this one is pure crap.

If you are a not tech they wants to install and configure an OS (idiot) try Mint or Xandros...

Damn...

[jezzali]

Wow the shills and the Microsoft FUDsters are really out in force at the moment... Must be a new Microsoft operating system release coming, and the Slog is on in earnest...

Despite your best efforts to scare people away, they are not scared way anymore and Linux continues to grow. I know a lot of happy Linux users and a regular comment I hear is, "oh I couldn't go back to Windows".

[lortigosa]

I'm using Ubuntu right now, and I'm not a geek. I have no idea how to use the terminal. And I must say that my laptop works perfectly well with it installed. But yes, when I tried to play an mp3 for the first time (I don't remember with which program, the one that comes installed with it, someone will know), the program automatically asked, "you don't have the drivers, do you want to install them?", or something like that. I said "yes", and voila!, after 1 minute I was listening to my mp3 with no problem. And no hassle at all.

Also, when you finish installing Ubuntu, it comes with all the programs a "medium non geek" user would need. So you don't need to Google for hours to find free Windows programs or buy them.

Sincerely, I found more complicated to make a new user to log into this page to write this comment than to start using Ubuntu. But I couldn't help myself to say this.

[i_debian]

Matt, this is Steven Rosenberg from the L.A. Daily News and Click blog -- thanks for the link on this story. I was looking for your entry on getting Flash to work in Ubuntu Netbook Remix and found this entry instead.

In my long rant, my point was that Linux geeks are accustomed to Googling their way to solutions to various problems. I've set up multimedia on a number of systems that don't include it out of the box. OpenBSD, Debian, Slackware ... I haven't done it in Fedora or CentOS, but it's not hard to add Flash, MP3 support or what have you to any of these systems.

But I do hold Ubuntu to a higher standard when it comes to helping out new users. They can't just include the proper codecs, but they also must help users decide whether or not they want to support multimedia in its various forms on their system.

I like the way Absolute Linux does it (http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090608#feature) with a menu item that installs and deinstalls the multimedia packages, albeit from source (which can take many, many hours of compiling). If Ubuntu could have this in the menu, i.e. turning multimedia support on and off, that would be better than the current system.

My main problem was that I didn't have nonfree repositories enabled. I generally start off on my systems with "free" only and then add the contrib and nonfree repositories as I need them.

When MP3s wouldn't play, I figured I'd get a helpful dialog box from Ubuntu, but since I didn't have nonfree repositories opened up, I did not.

What was curious in your case was Flash not being there. I can't remember how Ubuntu deals with Flash, but I know it comes from their repositories (there are no royalties involved in using the Flash player, I believe), and I think Firefox prompts you to install it if you get some Flash content on the page.

I hope Ubuntu has modified their policy slightly to inform the user, regardless of how his or her repositories are configured, what they need to do to play an mp3, mp4, mov, wma or what have you.

As I also said, this is a prime opportunity for a teachable moment in which Ubuntu can educate users about these forms of media, how they're nonfree and what that means to the community, the industry and the users themselves as individuals.

Another thing that I welcome is Mozilla's effort to bring streaming ogg video into Firefox. An alternative to Flash that is built in to every FF browser on every platform is a powerful counter to Adobe's proprietary Flash technology.

[rmknightstar]

I have been using Ubuntu for about 2 years now and would never go back to Windows. I use a Mac at work because some software just does not work on Linux -- yet. (disclaimer: I started using Unix 30 years ago in college). I think that an easy way to install a bundle of "non-free" utilities would be nice. I also think that a commercial version of Ubuntu (kind of like Fedora/Redhat) would be useful. For what it is worth I know a 7 year old uses Ubuntu with no problem. The only problem is that some software is not available. So... IMHO Linux is not inherently geeky or difficult -- it just has not caught on yet.

[BrianAbbott67]

The User Experience is dominated by the User Interface.

Looking solely at this from a visual standpoint for my post here, not any other angle, Linux is stuck in the dark ages with clunkly looking text, a file system that the average (I said AVERAGE) person cannot "relate" to.

root > abbreviated > short > meaningless > folders

Perms, distros, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, KDE, Gnome, Redhat, RPM, Debian, forums, IRC, and so on...

The average (I said AVERAGE) person using Windows does not care one bit about any of the preceding geek terms, phrases, versions, etc. They turn their computer on, it works, they are happy.

The average (I said AVERAGE) person does not have very many problems with Windows. So what would the average person's experience be with Linux? Are they going to be able to sit down and type up a letter, organize their photos, and sync their iPod? H

I did not ask can those things be done in Linux, I asked if the AVERAGE damned person can sit in front of a Linux based computer and not have to spend considerable time learning how to navigate the damned system. Learn new terms, set permissions, install drivers, and find out that they did not have a backup system like System Restore if something does go wrong? That is my question.

ow about installing that new printer with the ADF (Automatic Document Feeder) and multiple paper trays, or the printer all in one that comes with software for one step scan to PDF support?

What about that new digital camera with cutting edge features (name your brand and model)?

Does Linux support these or is it always going to be "blame the hardware vendors for not supporting a million versions of Linux?"

It is amusing to read articles that rate an OS on how many clicks it takes to install, or that one OS booted up 3 seconds faster (in their tests).

There is no doubt that the average (I said AVERAGE) person wants to use a familiar interface, easy, smooth, simple, straight forward and so on.

What does Linux have to compare to Windows 7 Libraries?

What does Linux have to compare with Windows Desktop Search?

Or do you have to go out into the wild and download some other add on, some other 3rd party program, that may or may not be compatible with the next upgrade to your OS, or your Gnome, or KDE, or Enlightenment, or what ever desktop?

My gawd, I get a headache thinking about how many red headed stepchildren Linux has...