Comments on: Ballmer stumps for openness in bid to beat Apple

Microsoft's CEO is suddenly a friend of openness, when it gives him a stick with which to beat Apple. He seems to have a short memory on Microsoft's strategies.

[daverosenberg]

Good post. It will either get a ton of comments or no one will read it.

[zap_branigan]

Looks like the iphone is making ballmer nervous. and it should ... who cares how many winmo licenses MS shipped if the product sucks. Little old apple is cleaning MS's clock.

With that said.. Cue in the MS fanboys to proclaim MS is the greatest and Apple is a niche.

[jroon]

it should make ballmer nervous. there's no doubt that in the mobile space MS is way behind and in this one particular area apple is "cleaning MS clock."

but i think ballmer is making moves in a direction that could prove to be a viable competition to apple's extremely closed system. odd that people don't seem to criticize apple much around that -- but i guess it's too cool to criticize.

now we just have to see if ballmer's words will match his deeds.

[tm_anon]

A huge problem with this. The iPhone is compatible on more than one OS as is the iPod. Has anyone been able to get the Zune to properly sync up with any other OS besides Windows?

So what if the apps can be written by other people if the product won't run on anything but Windows.

It's unfortunate that his words were correct since they came from this particular source. Open platforms could be compatible with whatever the customer wants to use them with. I'm not saying the customer should be able to reproduce and redistribute the software, I'm saying it should at least be capable of being used on whatever the customer wishes.

Before Ballmer/MS makes another statement about open source this, open platform that, let's see them live up to this standard.

[ducttape36]

this post is what we people in logic call a 'red herring argument' just cause microsoft is guilty of being closed does not make apple any less closed themselves. they both should open up a bit.

[Matt Asay]

I think that's true, but it's amazing to hear the argument coming from Ballmer's mouth. Ballmer is basically saying, "We're losing to you Apple, and we want help competing against you so...why don't you open up so that we have a chance?" I don't remember Ballmer affording *any* of its competitors this courtesy, so it's unclear why Apple should.

[Dalkorian]

Ballmer is delusional Matt and always has been. I'm constantly amazed anyone listens to the garbage spewing forth from his filth hole, but I guess it's the same fascination we all have with fantasy stories and such.

[ArtInvent]

As a complete and admitted Linux fanboy, I have no love of MS. That said, there is a reason that MS dominates the desktops of the world, while Apple, having consistently the technically superior, prettier, easier to use system, has always struggled to remain at around 10% mindshare.

Now, MS is far from 'open' as we in the free software community have come to use the term. But compared to Apple, their business model is far more open in the sense of licensing and hardware certification. MS will license their desktop, server, embedded, and mobile OS's to any and all hardware vendors. Apple absolutely will not. MS embraces pretty much any software developers who want to work with them. Apple on the other hand is closed, closed, closed at almost every turn. This finally worked for them in the music realm, but that was probably more due to the fact that their system actually worked flawlessy and was well executed at an early point in the digital music market. And that success comes at the expense of consumer choice and vendor lock-in. Their music system is a closed, one-vendor iTunes shop. MS conversely will license the Windows Media codecs to any shop who wants to set up, and will offer that store within Windows Media Player.

Now the iPhone is trying to use the exact same vertical lock-in. But the mobile computing market is a far more competitive environment. Personally I would not want to buy in too deeply into a single phone running on a single carrier with apps that only run on that one system. If and when I dive into the smart phone world, I would much rather use a truly open system, hopefully one running Linux such as Android, LiMo, Palm WebOS, or even a future open v. of Symbian. Both MS and Apple continue to try and wring cash out of the dying closed, vertical lock-in model. The future probably belongs to companies like Google who actually support true open source because they really get how to leverage truly open ecosystems.

[chabig83]

"Their music system is a closed, one-vendor iTunes shop."

I guess you weren't aware that iPod and iPhone play all of the industry standard formats, wherever you get them, and that the iTunes store is almost complete in its conversion to DRM free music. So tell me again about it being a closed, one-vendor shop.

[wesisw_]

It's the same as web browsers on Windows. Windows ships with IE, but users can, assuming they have the desire and technical competence, install Firefox or Chrome. Similarly, iPod/iPhone users are told to use iTunes to sync their music, although the MP3 players do support other unprotected audio formats acquired from other sources, assuming the user knows how to transfer them to the device.

[Nataku4ca]

i agree with ArtInvent but as for drm issue with itune, it only started to turn its head recently which is a good thing, but it still doesnt change the fact that apple is closed. Now from an old news, might not be true anymore but worth mentioning, is that jobs has acknowledged that apple is into hardware business, not os. (i dont have the link so dont ask, i cant remember where i saw it)

don't forget wesisw_ if the ipod wont play other formats it would've died long ago, but considering iphone's u are not allowed to jailbreak scheme id still say ArtInvent was right

[nixermac]

Let us see - Apple is closed compared to Microsoft? Really? I don't think so. Apple has the core OS as an open-source, the Safari code (WebKit) is open-source and is used in Android, Nokia and a whole lot others. Apple provides a full development environment with every Mac sold and free upgrades to it. The iPhone developer tools are free.

The Open Directory effort has been advanced further by Apple and Apple has created another great OSS called launchd. If you do not know about launchd the I sure cannot help. As a developer I find it great.

Have you tried Mac OS X Server. Try it, you will be amazed.

Apple uses and contributes to the FOSS. So do I see Apple as a closed company. Guess not.

Applications on the iPhone provide the developer a worry free store to promote and sell their apps without any worries of credit card validation, shipping updates, server maintenance etc. The developers can choose any price they want to. Obviously there are terms and conditions while selling something there. Let us accept it, Best Buy sells DVDs but do they sell porn in the store. No. That is a policy. Same for Apple. The App store has its conditions. Not all types of Apps rejected are porn but they do not meet the business needs of Apple and its partners. Would you as a businessman go against your own business. Guess not. If you are forthcoming then it is easier to do business with you. Apple has been pretty much very clear. It some are disgruntled then they have some problem and may discuss with Apple.

Now let us look at MS.

Windows is a closed OS. It uses the OSS TCP/IP network stack but MS does not acknowledge it. Neither has MS contributed towards it.

MS developer tools are paid. Really expensive. Many have it because they use the pirated version.

MS applications do not work well on platform other than Windows. Let us look at these Apps and environemtns:

1. Exchange Server - Windows only
2. Outlook - Windows only.
3. DirectX- Windows only
4. ActiveX- Thankfully Windows only.
5. Windows Media Player - Windows only
6. .Net- Windows only (for development). Deployment on other platforms pathetic.
7. IIS server - Windows only
8. MS SQL Server - Windows only
9. MS Office - Windows only. For Mac see below
10. IE - Windows only.
11. Sharepoint - Windows only (client barely works on other platforms).
12. Communicator- Windows only. No decent client else where. Poor.
This list is very long.

MS has some apps
1. Entourage - a pathetically written exchange client for Mac.
2. MS Office - a pathetic implementation for Mac. Does not contain MS Access.
3. Messenger - Poorly written for Mac. More like just because.
4. Is there anything else that we can even talk about. Yes
5. MS ActiveSync. That is also a half baked interface to Exchange so that MS can compete with RIM.

What are the MS apps on Linux:
1. Nada
2. Null
3. Nyet.
4. Nothing out there dude.

MS WinMo is as closed as everything else from MS.

Apple is a hardware company they want to sell the iPhone. The iTunes store and the App store is there to help sell the phone and that is exactly what these associative infrastructure are doing. I understand that the fine line between Hardware and Software is thinning at least in the case of Apple. Though this does not mean that Apple can change its business.

For many my comment above will be a 110% from a Fanboy but that is not true. I rap Apple's knuckles where they deserve. I am critical of this company but appreciate them too. I have been a Mac based developer for more than a decade and half. :)

[Get_a_life_Leo]

Ballmer has realised Microsoft has no answer to the iPhone. The problem is, consumers are not interested in the openness of an architecture of system as long as it meets their needs. Apple won't change and neither will Microsoft. The difference is that one has a modern product being emulated by much of the cell phone industry and the other has a warmed-over corpse (WinMo 6.5) and operating system software that is imploding under its own mass.

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

I'm a perfect example of why Apple only has 10% market share; I use a Mac at home, and am forced to use Windows for work (it took me 15 minutes on my new Lenovo T400 to connect to our wifi access point today, and it just disconnected again while writing this comment, arggh).

[Nataku4ca]

i think u need to talk to ur it department about that...

[tm_anon]

@Nataku4ca

I used to connect wirelessly to my home network via Windows XP. I'd have several hours per day trying to reconnect to the network and thought it was simply a network matter, that it wasn't set up properly. I switched over to Ubuntu and now have less than 20 minutes per 2 weeks where I might possibly not be connected to the internet.

It's not always something the IT department can fix. Sometimes it's the software acting as it was designed. Software that's designed properly will always work better.

[Nataku4ca]

@tm_anon

i haven't had an issue where i had to try to connect to the wireless network for any longer than 1~2min, and I'm in the IT department

honestly most of the time if there is an issue its the hardware manufacturer, say for instance, dlink gave the most headache when we had it hooked up and when i got a different receiver from linksys it worked flawlessly

plus who writes the driver and software? the manufacturer, xp itself may have something to do with it but by now i doubt there is still any issue with it, besides everytime there is an issue and u update the driver its fixed, so im a firm believer that issues arise more often because of the third party rather than ms itself

btw linux has a whole bunch of ppl writing drivers and codes and fixing it as they pop up so its usually not a problem for them

[nixermac]

I really did not know that the connections dropped too frequently for users on Win XP. I have had this problem a few times when setting up a Wireless connect with DLink while traveling to India but after I has updated the fw all was ok. I use a Belkin now. It is amazing. The only time i had a problems was when I connected the Belkin power supply to a 220 V in India and it blew up. After I got back home and contacted Belkin they replaced the router. All is OK since then.

Oh, I am on the Mac. I have not used Win PC with wireless. I do use XP in office as a development system as we develop for multi-platform. My primary hw at office is also a Mac.

[morgan_greywolf]

Ballmer correctly perceives Apple's lack of openess with the iPhone, but you're right -- he's the last person to be preaching openness. As far as this being a "new" Microsoft? I've heard that tune before.

[smaffulli]

Better to rephrase:

Perhaps this is the old Microsoft, one that embraces open standards, open source, open APIs, and open competition. And then EXTENDS them!

That's been always their strategy :)

[johnqh]

Want to beat Apple? First, cut the cost.

The $99/year iPhone developer membership give developers unlimited signing.

To develop for WM, $500 buys you 100 signings - and every exe, dll and cab must be signed for every build (meaning each minor upgrade would cost easily 4 to 5 signings).

Who is more open?

[Nataku4ca]

***? sorry i just didn't understand this comment too well

[AmFuzzy]

Matt, as usual, writes another inflammatory piece making borderline inaccurate statements.

[Earl Benzar]

Ballmer forgot that just a couple of days ago MS announced the Windows Phone and their MyPhone service. This guy is a bad joke.

[ppgreat]

Nothing but another example of the hubris of monopolists.

[frankz00]

How is this going to be any different than the "openness" of the doomed PlaysForSure model??? What Apple does works for Apple very well. Just because Microsoft failed at producing this glorious "open" model doesn't mean that Apple is obligated to do it for them!

It's not being closed that I hated about Microsoft stuff. It's being closed and sucking at the same time that really pissed me off. At least Apple is good at being closed and they're closed to the benefit of their customers. There is no Apple product that I am dissatisfied with to date.

[Waam]

I say this over and over again.

As a MSFT shareholder, I just want MSFT to concentrate on what it's good at. Getting Windows on computers and selling Office. Why dibble dabble in other markets and get totally crushed, create bad press, and drive my stocks down? Why, why, why? It's been lose lose lose for the last 3-5 years and I'm sick and tired of it.

[tm_anon]

Sell your MSFT stock and buy Apple. Even when they fail, they only fail at exceeding expectations. If Bill Gates is asked back, then buy MSFT again, but as long as Ballmer is in charge, avoid them like the plague.

[dk jones]

though both MS & Apple may have their customers "locked-in", whose customers are seemingly more happy w/ their decisions? i use Macs @ home(freelance movies/music-PowerMac G5 & for my entertainment-Intel iMac media server/center) & took an older 17" iMac G4 to my church for work i do there(graphics & some AV). i use a MacBook for my mobile computing & @ my job, connecting over wifi to email colleagues(all Windows). i have an iPod Touch as well for entertainment & connecting on the go @ friends & restaurants. i'm soon to buy a bud's old iPhone 2G. i'm happy in the Apple/Mac "locked in ecosystem". it works for me. & when i have a problem, i usually only have to make one call--to Apple. i get what i like, what works for me, as i assume most adults do if/when they get to make the choice.

[mmjq]

I don't doubt that Microsoft has acted contrary to principles of "openness" (however you define it), but I don't think the examples mentioned are especially relevant. Vertical integration and product tying are not questions of "openness". Open-source software organizations could easily pursue the same strategies and still be called "open".

[hawkeyeaz1]

Openness has not been defined here. that could be where the red herring lies.

I don't think it is the iPhone that makes him nervous, I think it is the iPhone along with Android and LiMo that make him nervous.

[dryflyfish]

Maybe MS should try lock-in the Apple-way -- awesome products; easy to use; massively creative and original; great value; people enjoy using them; don't feel screwed with the lock-in.

Who am I kidding? It would never work for MS.

[The_happy_switcher]

I hope that Ballmer, aka Uncle Fester, has a very long tenure as CEO. Under his leadership people will continue to leave Microsoft in droves.