Version: 2008

Comments on: Apple shows us how to compete with Microsoft

The Mac maker has never pulled any punches in competing against Microsoft, even when it was dependent on the Windows giant.

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by l.diazsantana January 6, 2009 8:11 AM PST
I suggest you read this article, which explains in detail the 150 millions "investment"

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/592FE887-5CA1-4F30-BD62-407362B533B9.html

As you can see. Microsoft was not being a benefactor at all!
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by Mark_Anderson January 7, 2009 9:26 AM PST
I suggest you get your information from anywhere else than rabid fansites like roughlydrafted.

MS did it for their own reasons, all of which made commercial sense.
by zahadum January 10, 2009 11:18 PM PST
yep, this is more ill-informed (lazy) or mis-informed (stupid) FUD being passed off as history/journalism/fact (although in this case by a linux nerd, not a msft lackey).

apple did not need the $150M from msft: it had already contained the operating loses & also had nearly $2B in the bank.

in reality the investment by msft was part of a larger deal in which msft was settling a violation of intellectual property lawsuit with apple - in fact, if you look at the financial statements for that period, it appears that msft was quietly paying about $1B++ to apple in unpublicized fees.

msft settled the lawsuit privately with apple on the eve of macworld because it was poised to lose MANY billions of dollars in a court judgement - and with the DOJ anti-trust case moving forward, making a token investment in apple was good PR for msft because it made a virtue out of a necessity.

ps: the lawsuit in question was not the famous 'look & feel' case (which was actually just a simple licensing issue - apple didnt explicitly restrict msft using its GUI conventions after window 1.0); rather, this case was the clearcut infringement by msft of apple's quicktime-for-windows technology (by way of an thieving subcontractor that was deliberately being laundered through Intel).
by ppgreat January 6, 2009 8:21 AM PST
Apple competes with MS on innovation and providing consumers (and, slowly, businesses) with what they want.

If that is viewed as "defying" Microsoft, then it has more to do with trying to remove mediocrity from their company DNA and not settling for the status quo.
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by dragonbite January 6, 2009 8:21 AM PST
I don't agree with the idea of Dell buying Red Hat because that's going to try and create a lock-in that will doom them both.

The better thing to do, as Dell is doing, is to provide Linux as an alternative to Windows on many levels.

Make it easier for Linux users to access compatible hardware from Dell so even if it is a smaller market compared to Windows machines it's tapping into a market that may otherwise go elsewhere (since Linux can be installed on anything from super-computers to watches).

Then as Linux grows, so does Dell but not at the expense of it's Windows buyers.
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by myles taylor January 6, 2009 8:26 AM PST
Yea, I've always wondered about that. I guess that just shows that Microsoft needs Apple as well. They must make a decent amount of money selling software to Mac users.
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by SkateNY January 7, 2009 1:50 AM PST
Apple's biggest software developer? Microsoft.
by jlm429 January 6, 2009 8:31 AM PST
Mac is on it's way down because their business model sucks and jobs is a control freak. They know how to make things pretty, but mark my words, this is the PEAK of the mac OS. They showed MS what they were missing, and good for them, but windows 7 will hit back hard, average computer users (not hard core techies) will wonder why they switched and paid all that money to do so. Google is the real competitor and the battlefront is the mobile market.
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by jlm429 January 6, 2009 8:34 AM PST
and marginalizing the os with chrome
by jpg27 January 6, 2009 8:56 AM PST
ummm windows 7 will hit back hard?? I heard a similar phrase when Vista was nearing its launch. Im more interested to find out how Apple is on 'it's way down' because of the company's business model. Can you describe the major flaws in its business model that has brought it's OS to a 'PEAK' and will now be its downfall?
by protagonistic January 6, 2009 9:00 AM PST
Can I have some of whatever it is you are smoking? If you followed business history at all you would know that it is MS that has reached the point where it will gradually decline. I am not saying Apple will replace them, but somebody will.

As for Windows 7, most accounts I have read say that it is really not much more than a refined version of Vista. If that is true people will once again be disappointed.
by davidwb January 6, 2009 9:06 AM PST
jim429 - the men in the white suits are at the door. Please open the door and step away. Do not be aggressive toward the men in white suits.
by Dalkorian January 6, 2009 10:45 AM PST
winblows 7? ROFLMAO! Yes, we're laughing at you for believing this garbage. w7 is nothing more than a rebadged fista sp 3, again with rosy promises that will all be removed a month before it's released because M$ can't make anything work right, just like what happened with fista. It's not their fault, they're to busy trying to lock everything down and control their slaves ("customers" to other companies) to make their software actually fulfill any promises.

But don't worry, we're not paying you to spread truth. You have done the bidding of your masters well, spreading their lies with conviction. Make sure your master sees this so they can "pay" you for your loyalty.
by drhowarddrfine January 6, 2009 1:50 PM PST
Are you aware that Mac sales are the highest they've ever been and Apple's revenue is double what it was just a short time ago?!

Are you also aware that Microsoft's revenue has been declining the last two quarters and Microsoft has already stated this quarter's revenue will also be down?

And you say Mac is on its way down?!
by SkateNY January 7, 2009 1:53 AM PST
Right. Apple has the best brick-and-mortar retail operation in, well, the world. They doubled their OS market share in less than a year. They control better than 70% of the MP3 market. If that's going down, I'd like to go down myself.

Everyone is entitle to his own opinion; no one is entitle to his own facts.

Next time you feel the urge to post something, please ask mommy and daddy to relax parental controls.
by mjtomlin January 6, 2009 8:54 AM PST
"What if Microsoft doesn't like it?"

This is one of the reasons Microsoft got into trouble with the government(s)... Their exclusivity contracts that forced PC manufacturers to only offer Windows, effectively killing off all other OS vendors, except those that made their own hardware, like Apple. However, they also tried to push out other OS based hardware from corporations, by forcing corporations to pay Windows and Office licensing fees for every available seat, whether that seat ran Windows or not.

"...had to humbly accept a $150 million investment..."

They didn't have to accept this investment. This was just a facade to show that Apple was still alive and well and had the support of the largest software developer in the world. I believe at the time Apple had over a billion in the bank, they didn't need Microsoft's "investment".

"... irked Microsoft, like the Safari browser in 2003..."

Why would that "irk" Microsoft? They had previously declared they would no longer continue development of IE for Mac. So Apple stepped in with Safari, which as you know uses open source WebKit, Apple's branch of the KHTML project.
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by lmasanti January 6, 2009 9:01 AM PST
quote:
"For those who insist that Dell and others set themselves up with an umbilical existence to Microsoft's whims, I suggest that you take a close look at Apple. "

As usual, I think that people miss the point. Apple has quality and innovation on its DNA, Dell has cheap prices!
Apple could turn on a success in the second-coming of Jobs, because Jobs "co-founded it" and soda-marketing guys destroy it.
But Dell? OK, it's the second-coming of Michel but there is no innovation inside, neither hard+soft integrity.
To buy RH and mix with Dell hardware could be "good business," but never a "like Apple's success"!
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by UrbanBard January 6, 2009 9:11 AM PST
Jim429, You come off as a Windows fanboy.

Is a 30% annual growth rate, $25 billion in the bank and Apple pushing its market share on the web, from 4% two years ago to just under 10% now, evidence that Apple is going down the tubes? Is Microsoft dropping below 89% market share a sign of robust health? If it is, then let us have more of that.

Who cares if Steve jobs is a control freak if he delivers to consumers the products and services that they want and are willing to pay extra for?

Windows 7 will speak for itself whenever it shows up. We have to deal with today, not some vaporware in the future. Microsoft has a habit of promising much and delivering very little. Windows Vista was a huge embarrassment; Windows 7 must be very good just to make up for Vista, let alone catch up to Mac OSX 10.6 Snow Leopard.

Besides, if Windows 7 is that good, the best place to run it is on a Mac, not a Dell. The build quality of Apple's Macintosh equipment is better and the Macs are real cute. They don't cost any more than for comparable Dell PC.

If you want to buy a junky PC, or one out of a White Box, rather than a computer which will last for four or more years, then you can pay less. But, you get what you pay for. And being able to avoid Windows XP and Vista is worth $300, any day.
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by Spartan_458 January 6, 2009 9:24 AM PST
I don't know where you're finding a Mac for the same price as a comparable Dell, but I'd like to see it. Dells are not bad looking, are much easier to upgrade and modify, built well, and are *for the most part* much cheaper.
by jlm429 January 6, 2009 10:01 AM PST
ok now who is the fanboy? the point is MS can once again thank apple for innovating. Whether it is MS that dominates again on the OS, may be too soon to tell, and like I said, I think google is the real competition in the mobile market long term and on the OS by marginalizing the OS all together. Apple's business model (JOBS) hasn't changed, so history will repeat itself - anyone remember the 80's? http://bigtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2007/11/08/will-apples-control-issues-hurt-the-company/
by Dalkorian January 6, 2009 10:46 AM PST
Spartan_458, it's hard to see when your eyes are closed.
by Frost7331 January 6, 2009 11:10 AM PST
Spartan 458,ever heard of newegg?

Dells suck,Macs suck,get it?
Who the hell honestly buys a prebuilt tower(especially dell) on this site and doesn't feel guilty of being scammed?
by admoore January 6, 2009 9:15 AM PST
Of all the Linux companies to buy, why red hat? If they were going to buy a Linux distro and try to be Apple, it would make more sense to acquire Canonical (assuming Shuttleworth wants to sell), seeing as Canonical has a more desktop-ready distro than redhat (no distro wars here; let's just face it, redhat gave up on the desktop and said so themselves. Ubuntu is all about the desktop), and Dell already offers Ubuntu on the desktop.

That's, of course, presuming they would benefit from acquiring a Linux distro in the first place. They seem to be nicely hedging their bets right now by offering both (and primarily Windows).
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by MSSlayer January 6, 2009 1:44 PM PST
Too bad Ubuntu is third rate garbage. It is bloated, clunky, and ugly. Not too mention that it doesn't have nearly the hardware support of the better distros.
by CBattery January 6, 2009 10:47 AM PST
Apple is only having success now because of the iPod and their iTunes monopoly and the effect those have on Mac purchases. If not for the iPod, Apple would still be some irrelevant niche player. Don't worry, Apple will eventually return to their roots of mediocrity. Their business plan insists on it.
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by MSSlayer January 6, 2009 1:45 PM PST
LOL

Yeah, the fact that OSX is a superior OS has nothing to do with it,
by Balrob January 7, 2009 1:45 PM PST
Oh yeah - and Windows stands on it's own merits does it ? Did it not benefit from the joint Windows / Office monopoly which locked in customers, or anti-competitive actions which penalized PC makers for daring to offer alternatives - for which MS was convicted ?
We should be thankful for the what MS brought to the table 10+ years ago - but they have long since rested on those laurels while Apple and Linux have fought tooth and nail for each percentage point. You might not like everything about Apple, but it innovates, attracts customers and in turn spurs competitors to follow.
by Frost7331 January 6, 2009 11:07 AM PST
"winblows 7? ROFLMAO! Yes, we're laughing at you for believing this garbage. w7 is nothing more than a rebadged fista sp 3, again with rosy promises that will all be removed a month before it's released because M$ can't make anything work right, just like what happened with fista. It's not their fault, they're to busy trying to lock everything down and control their slaves ("customers" to other companies) to make their software actually fulfill any promises.

But don't worry, we're not paying you to spread truth. You have done the bidding of your masters well, spreading their lies with conviction. Make sure your master sees this so they can "pay" you for your loyalty."

Windows 7 < apple fanboy's "productivity",including writing.

Truth? Spoken like a true gullible POS.Go back to 5th grade,you don't deserve to be on a tech site.
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by jinx101a January 6, 2009 11:24 AM PST
The Windows 7 beta benchmark is outperforming both XP and Vista, that's a fact. There is in fact hope that MS got it right. Anybody who starts their comment off with insults of throwing a dollar sign in for an S in M$ is automatically under suspicious of being a zealot.
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by Penguinisto January 6, 2009 12:57 PM PST
Actually, it is not fact, since 1) it is against the EULA to post any benchmark numbers of any Windows 7 beta, and 2) the opinions of the guy you're trying to cite are subjective at best.
by CrashPad63 January 6, 2009 12:39 PM PST
Jobs and company will be down within 4 years. History speaks for itself and Jobs is dooming his company for a repeat just like before. Research then and now and realize, Jobs is in the end a flim flam man.
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by Penguinisto January 6, 2009 12:55 PM PST
*sigh*.... Mat, you;re operating on a lot of bad assumptions.

1) Actually, MS Office was first written for Apple OS. It was eventually ported to Windows (and not the other way 'round, as you assert).

2) the $150m and a promise to continue Mac Office development was what MSFT was grudgingly forced to pay in order to avoid being eviscerated by lawsuit damages that they would have owed Apple over copyright and/or patent theft.

This pretty much changes the premise of your whole article in many ways...

Meanwhile, it's fun to watch. Maybe MSFT will realize their losses before its too late, maybe they won't. Either way, at least the result will mean a more open environment for us all, methinks.
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by dlakers8 January 6, 2009 4:58 PM PST
I've been reading these posts, and many of you bash Microsoft and there Windows OS, but you forget to mention they've been in business for over 20 years now. Now i know Apple has been too, but they have only just begun to experience the same success that Microsoft has been enjoying for years. Let's face it, Windows 7 won't be there last OS and Apple will continue to gain market share, but neither will disappear and they will continue to compete with each other. Some and many people will back Microsoft and their OS, others and many will back the Mac.
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by karport January 6, 2009 5:45 PM PST
Apple has not shown anyone how to compete with Microsoft, it has shown that it cannot.

Apple has adopted Microsoft software for its hardware, and Microsoft's processor platform . Apple's hardware once unique now concurrently runs windows. Apple as a computer company has not evolved buy has slowly morphed into a WINTEL with some bells and whistles, thus Mac is as recently called a PC with a tax.

Apple is now a highly successful innovation company with the Ipod, Iphone and Itunes center stage, the computer business is sentimental favorite and a company icon, but unless you did not get the memo it is no longer Apple Computer company.

I suspect if Microsoft decided to no longer support Office on a Mac that sales would slow to a trickle, certainly for Universities and many businesses.

Apple showing how to compete, I think not. Apple has shown what it takes to survive
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by SkateNY January 7, 2009 1:59 AM PST
Survive? Apple has demonstrated quite well what it is to thrive, whereas Microsoft continues to demonstrate what one needs to do in order to fold.
by solitare_pax February 6, 2009 5:22 PM PST
Back on topic - if Dell could produce an OS that was as rock-solid as Mac OS 10.5, and provide all the programs a business needs, they would do quite well - if they could get the IT guys who are still in love with Windows 95 out of the trees and teach them how to walk upright.
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Matt Asay brings a decade of in-the-trenches open-source business and legal experience to the Open Road, with an emphasis on emerging open-source business strategies and opportunities. Matt is general manager of the Americas division and vice president of business development at Alfresco, a company that develops open-source software for content management. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure.

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