Comments on: Firefox to surpass IE? Yes, but only among the geeks

Firefox will soon surpass IE in market share...but not among the mainstream.

[Shaymojack]

The main reason Firefox won't ever really win is because of people who don't know much about their computer. They still think that because it's Microsoft it must be the best. Or they don't even know that there are other browsers.

[Motyoj]

I don't use Microsoft products, so I don't have the option to use IE. If I did, I wouldn't use it. Boy...remember how the first incarnations of IE ran? Everyone I knew was using Netscape back then. Choice is good though but I wouldn't have integrated IE into the operating system so deeply if I were Microsoft. You'd think they'd be trying to get away from that.

[vicquad84]

I would call my self a computer "geek" and I use IE everyday (i'm using IE8 beta). Of course being a web developer I have firefox 3 too, but if I'm just browsing the web, I'm using IE. Maybe I'm just weird, but it does the job for me.

[Lerianis]

Until Firefox 3 came out, I was using the IE8 beta as well. But after that, and after realizing the numerous problems there are with IE8.... I only use it for a very few websites that I archive the pages on, using .mht because it is awesome at archiving pages.

[AySz88]

The site in question doesn't quite cater to "the elite" or "web designers" (the profession) but rather more broadly. I'm sure a lot of beginners looking for HTML help also go to w3schools.

[The_Decider]

You would be surprised how archaic some extremely knowledgeable technical people can be. I know several people who have PhD's in computer science who still use IE6 and think that it is OK and that new web sites should deal with IE6's inability to render basic HTML and CSS correctly. Of course, these guys are near retirement, but still it is sad. They are far more knowledgeable than self-described "geeks" that barely understand web development much less how computers and networks actually work.

At any rate, there is no accurate way to measure web browser usage, W3C schools is not a valid way to measure metrics among the "technically elite". There is also the odd idea that some so-called web developers have that dictates that they code to browsers. These are the same idiots that think they gain something by making an IE only site instead of a standards complaint site.

I would be very careful about calling web developers part of the technical elite. Most are worse then your average API monkey banging out simple java desktop apps. From my experience most "web developers" learned HTML/CSS/Javascript/PHP but do not really understand programming, computers and networks in any meaningful way. AKA most are not CS grads. There are certainly exceptions, but they simply prove the rule.

[john55440]

I have both IE7 and FF3 installed on my system, but use IE7, because I prefer it's interface.

[The User]

There are a few skins available for FireFox that make the best of IE7 interface, without IE issues.

[The_Decider]

Really? I am curious, what do you like about IE7's UI?

[theopensourcerer]

That's a pretty daft article...

If you develop anything for the web, "most" of the developers will create using Firefox as a reference tool. However due to the inconsistency between browsers, a web developer worth their salt must test their site in IE6, IE7, IE8b, Firefox2 & 3. Safari, Opera, and probably a text based browser too (such as Lynx).

So it is no wonder that sites concerned with web development are going to get plenty of hits from all sorts of browsers...

The question really is: What happens if M$ actually manage to make a half decent browser that conforms to standards? Does Firefox's position start to decline? (Of course the dodgy security of IE is still there so I for one won't use it - ever)

[kelmon]

It is doubtful that the general public gives 2 hoots about "Web Standards" so Microsoft's adoption of them probably won't change the level of migration to other browsers. Users that switched are probably concerned about other factors, such as security or browsing features, so Microsoft would need to address those perceived weaknesses in its browser before the switch would stop. Firefox's own position would likely remain unchanged or continue to improve unless Microsoft does release a browser that is found to be better all around.

Given that very few sites are anti-IE the adoption by Microsoft of Web Standards will not have much impact on how users experience the internet via IE.

[The_Decider]

People care when webpages render incorrectly. Sometimes it is a crappy page, but often it is IE not supporting standards properly.

At least they are trying and activex pages are becoming fewer and fewer. so things will get better.

Quite simple:

Most techies work. They work for corporations, mostly. Quite a few corporations have policies which imposes the use of IE, but that has been changing, albeit slowly, over the last few years. Most techies would love to use Firefox 100% of the time, but their bosses are still stuck in the dark ages, so they have to use the corp-browser.

Simple, really. Don't really see why it should be such a mystery.

[MJEvets]

I think that this is exactly the point. On my own computers I use Debian Linux and IceWeasel (=Firefox) but at work I have to use Winows and IE.

[GERRY RAINS]

Best comment yet! That is my problem. FF at home IE7 at work. Like you, I hope to see that change, not because the bosses love FF, but because of its superior security.

[kelmon]

At work I am stuck with IE because it is necessary for a number of web applications used by the company and to interface with SharePoint. Given this, when I browse the 'Net then I tend to do it using IE7 because it is already open and there doesn't seem to be much point installing a second browser if I am going to have to switch between them depending upon the site accessed.

In fairness, IE gets a lot of flack for good reason but as far as the end-user is concerned it is fine. Firefox, for all the stuff it does well, really isn't that much better than IE7 for the end-user and for that reason there isn't a tremendous incentive for the public to switch. As long as Microsoft provides a "good enough" browser with Windows then I don't think that Firefox or anything else is likely to truly threaten IE's position as the #1 browser for Windows. Sad but probably true.

[RavenChylde]

I equally use Firefox, IE, Safari, and occassionally Opera. It really just depends on my mood and what I am wanting to do with the least amount of trouble. Also occassionally at work I have to use IE because some sites I use at work were not designed to work in FireFox.

[Eric Barbosa]

Before I switched to the Mac in 2004 I switched to Mozilla (Firefox wasn't available at the time, or at least not in final release) from IE and I never went back to IE. I found Mozilla to have much more features. It has tabbed browsing and pop-up blocker, which IE didn't have at the time along with many other features.

It's easy to see why Firefox can easily become the leader among geeks and not the leader among everyone. Everyone has a choice among browsers, at least at home, work might be harder to make your own choice. Geeks know how IE has had not tried to conform to standards because of their market dominance, so most of them choose something that conforms to industry standards. Most non-geeks will stick with IE because it came with their computer and some don't even realize their is a choice.

[Steven0100]

This is like choosing between a Chevy or a Ford. They both work well or well enough.

I think some people choose FireFox just because they don't like MS and not because they think it's better than IE.

FireFox will never win out in the main stream because most people don't really care. They have IE and it serves their need. Why would anyone switch when what they have works just fine?

Still, I understand where the geeks are coming from. For example, I love highend audio gear and am very opinionated. What most people call a good stereo is what I call, at best, midfi and wouldn't let through my front door. Bose comes to mind. Most people I talk to think it's highhend, but on a scale of 1 to 10 it's about a 4 or 5 in sound quality. Even so, for what it is it serves its purpose and many people are proud to own it.

The same applies to FireFox and IE. They both serve their purpose and the mainstream wouldn't know the difference.

I have used FireFox and Oprah and to me, it was just more of the same. I saw no reason to switch. I suppose that if I looked a little deeper, I might have to choose one over the other, but the differences are not glaring.

[The_Decider]

IE doesn't work.

It is responsible for more malware then any other product in existence.

[Trane Francks]

> I have used FireFox and Oprah and to me, it was just more of the same.

I wonder what she thought about that. ;-)

[The User]

Despite FF being an all-around better product, I don't see it surpassing IE. The only reason is IE comes bundled with Windows. Most users will never touch "Control Panel" nor they will research alternative products.

That's been said, however, if measured among the users that choose to use a particular browser, FF will be a winner, eventually.

[lkrupp]

Here's some really good advice. If a "geek" tells you to head North you should head South. If a "geek" says the sky is blue then you can be sure it's actually red. Most "geeks" are not what they would have you believe. It's easy to portray one's self as an expert when all you are is a wannabe. "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance then baffle 'em with scheiß" is the geek motto.

[dualsighter]

I don't see Firefox surpassing IE anytime soon only because most people use whatever comes with their PC, and that's the exact advantage IE has over FF. I haven't used IE7 in ages, and don't find the need for it either, it's not that IE is a terrible browser or that it has Microsoft label over it, IE just doesn't give me the level of customization and control I want to have with webpages like ABP/RIP/Greasemonkey/Stylish extensions would.

[mhinnewyork]

For more browser usage stats see
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13554_3-10018838-33.html

[jwkware]

Well, until Firefox 3 Came out I used IE. IE is not that bad of a browser if you want to take the time to tweak it. However with the small speed and security improvements, along with the feature base, I have now switched to Firefox3.

[jabailo]

When you say "geeks" you have to realize that it's not 1984 anymore.

I would wager that at least more than 25 percent of Americans consider themselves "geeks" if that means a fondness for technology and innovation. From the dad who buys the latest plasma tv, to the Gossil Girl who needs the sweetest texting device, I would paraphrase Richard Nixon: "Ah, but we're all geeks now..."

[will2348]

Where firefox falls behind is with it's marketing not that they can afford it but if they really want to win they need to target people who are don't know much about there computers because people who don't know much about computer i.e. old people are scared of demm there scared of making any changes to there pc in case they muck it up! And yes most people do think it's Microsoft surely it must be saffest and quickest way to surf the web. I am trying out IE8 which if gets released is going to be disastrous it's awfully slow and crashes regulary. So dats when i got firefox which is alot better in speed but i can never seem to get flash to install with it so i have to use IE for dat.

[transparentman]

I have Firefox, IE, and Safari.

I usually use Firefox, but use IE if I need to watch video or other scripts that FF aren't compatible with.