Comments on: Can personal aircraft beat gridlock?

NASA thinks so, and it's offering prize money for teams heading to the skies in a contest starting Saturday.

[rcrusoe]

Forcast calls for aluminum showers

I can see it now. Give an airplane to all the idiots that can't drive a
car on the freeway so they can rain down on the population.

IMO, NASA will quickly discover going to the moon was a walk in
the park compared to teaching Joe Sixpack how to fly.

[CBWolf]

FUI

Imagine drunk fliers?

Well, in all honesty, putting Joe Sixpack in a plane is probably
safer than putting him in a car. When you are driving you are in
close proximity to other travelers so there is a high chance you
will hit someone else if you lose control. During flight it is just
you and the open air (and whatever happens to be below you).
While some people will fall through some guy's roof, most will
hit ground in the woods or whatnot, and I imagine flying over
dense urban areas will be prohibited (these things need a small
airstrip to land anyway).

[TogetherinParis]

Must you be such an old fashioned cynic?

First of all, think carbon fiber not aluminum. Next, you ignore
obvious improvements in flight control technology. UAVs are now
common. Surely, planes having no pilot at all are no more
dangerous than piloted aircraft?

[dondarko]

keep in mind...

that they will most likely automate these things so you won't be even flying. Feds are not stupid. Until they can control the aircraft, or businesses making them...they won't let these things into mass use.

[Rokprtmike]

This is all we need

What about the commercial planes that are already up there? They take off and land everywhere.
The Air Traffic Control system is near capacity now.

I want to see a few hundered of these things over Manhattan driven by eighteen year olds. Too much faith is put into computer control.

[Blito]

Logistical nightmare

They would be treated as small planes legally. So it would'nt really put too much of a dent in anything. If anything it would just create a tun of sky pollution and kill more birds.
I wouldn't trust a basic pedestrian too much flying over my head ready to drop their MacDonalds garbage on me or worse.

[Blito]

Sort of Sci Fi reality

I agree with allot of books movies that there will be maybe flying taxies mildly but not with Star Wars or Back to the Future where it's a large traffic jam thing. It's fun for the kids to watch but not reality.
Still it could come in handy in some situations and would be great for getting from city to city for cabs maybe. I just don't think it will be something where I pop out of a traffic jam unless I am going to another city in a cab.

[bildan2]

Personal aircraft

OK, MAYBE, "ultra smart autopilots" will someday allow air vehicles to be operated by anyone who can operate an elevator - maybe not.

On efficient aircraft, these already exist. They can go 100mph while getting 60+ mpg. While they can't be stored in a garage, they can be folded up into a long trailer. They're called "touring motorgliders" - a small engine married to a two-seat sailplane with a very long wing. Like any aircraft, they're expensive.

Touring motorgliders require real piloting skills that must be acquired the old fashioned way by spending hours with an instructor.

bildan
sailplane pilot
aerospace engineer

[Phillep_H]

OT reading

Have you read the Weber and Evens book "Hell's Gate"? Something like that would be handy in that sort of "universe", IMO. Especially if the motor could burn seal or fish oil.

[perfectblue97]

Wrong direction

Typical, people are looking in quite the wrong direction again. I blame big business. This isn't about the environment or efficient transport, it's about selling planes people instead of cars.

What is really needed is for government to stop spending money on multi-million dollar tanks and missiles and new ways to spy on us, and to spend it on the public transport infrastructure instead.

Let's get some quality air-con buses with nice seats and an olden-days style conductor to kick off the drunks and the troublemakers. At least you can use your MP4 player in a bus, not like in an auto (unless you're crazy, that is).

[k2dave]

Public transportation in it's current form is not the answer either

Public transportation in it's current form is not the answer either. Sure it works in cities, some crowded suburbs to a much less extent, but in rural areas there just is not the population density to support any public transit system that anyone would use.


A entirely new public transit system and technology would be needed to make that a reality. One that allows a minimum wait time and shortest path routing. In cities this is pretty easy because they have the population to run lots of buses and trains on lots of routes, but as you move away from cities you can't use that plan anymore.

Perhaps something like personal (1 to 8 seat) pods that run on a electrified track system. You could have a device to call a pod to a place near you and order how many seats you need. When you arrive at a loading platform your pod will be waiting, then it travels on the track to it's destination automatically.

[62Sparkplug]

Reduce Congestion?

OK, where do I park, store, or temporarily put my personal
aircraft? My understanding is that most driving that people do
is less than 20 miles/trip. So I don't think most people could
"park" their personal aircraft at their place of residence, they
would have to drive somewhere to get to their personal aircraft.

After they then get to their personal aircraft and fly it to where
they want to go (work, shopping, eating out, etc.) where do they
"park" their personal aircraft and how do they then get to their
final destination?

[TogetherinParis]

It's a car! It's a plane! It's... It's!

"Most people" live too close to cities for good health and safety.
The idea is that you won't be in intercity traffic. You park your car
where you've always parked it. That wouldn't change. You just
don't need an airplane hanger, too. Sure, it might be smarter to just
carry a bicycle or scooter, but there is a market for this vehicle.
Industrial salesmen would love it. Maybe it is just not for you?

[Stating]

Flying Missiles

I can't imagine that in this age of the perpetual war on terror that the Feds would approve flying missile cars for general use. On a practical level, would you want every home's garage to be an airport? Would you want to live next to airports on all 4 sides of your house?

The key to reducing traffic congestion is to reduce the population in cities. We didn't have real traffic congestion until the 1970's. It's amazing to look at films and TV shows from before this period and see how smoothly traffic moved, how sparse it was, even in major cities.

[bommai]

How do you reduce population

How do you reduce population? You are not going to suggest forced removal of people do you. I like what London is doing but it will never fly here in the US. In London, people have to pay a big fee to own and operate a car and take it into the city. So, either people go by public transport or they don't go to the city or if it is really worth it, they pay and go to the city. So, it is just a balancing game. However, we cannot really implement that here until we have three things 1) Really good public transportation 2) People that don't mind taking public transportation 3) People that don't mind paying big fees to enjoy their car in the city.

[dondarko]

yeah no kidding...

we just need to invest in mass transit, period...

[letelido]

Reducing cities' population? Don't think so

Population will only increase in the cities. Reducing the amount of
personal vehicles and increasing mass transit it the only way to go.
I'm afraid the suburbs are about to start dying, unless they can
adapt as transit-efficient places to live and commute to and from.

[thebman--2008]

Parking your plane

Once you park your personal flying object (PFO) at the recently constructed short runway, how do you get to where your going? Does everybody have their own personal taxi or second car waiting at the airpark to drive them to their job in the gridlocked city. Sounds like a great idea if you live in Wyoming and commute to Casper or just need to go to the BIG city.

Personally, I'm going to continue driving my car at whatever speed I can to work, eating a Big Mac, text messaging with the office, as I review the files I need for today's presentation.

[Mr.Scott123]

Nice idea, but...

Personal aircraft are a nice idea for beating the gridlock of the freeways, but there are problems...
1) The air traffic control system is already overloaded. Do air travelers want more delays?
2) People can't drive on two-dimensional roads, can you image them trying three dimensions?
3) People now drive while also: reading the news paper, shaving, putting on make-up, etc. When flying you need a lot more attention!
4) Oh yes, let's have people buzzing their house, or their friends and family. Can you imagine one person saying "Let's drop in!"
5) Let's face it, the news media loves a good accident. Every time a plane has a problem, no matter how slight, it's all over the news across the country. You would now have news 24x7 with this idea.
6) All you need is some fool to wanter into the traffic pattern at an airport. That would be the end of the "personal aircraft".
7) One would need more educated drivers! It's bad enough that when people see bad weather and have to drive on the road when it happens. Now imagine that same person having to pilot their personal aircraft through it.
8) Aircraft are maintained in near perfect condition. Automobiles are not by far. Who is going to pay for the upkeep?!?
9) Right now the government can't keep up with issuing passports. You think the FAA is going to be better at issuing pilot's licenses?
10) You know driver's ed was a joke. A lot of people shouldn't be driving. I can see it now - get your pilot instructor's license for only 19.95 and teach other's to fly. It will take you two weeks to teach and your 500 students will be flying in a week! Earn that valuable and rewarding teaching certificate today! You'll be glad you did. (Till that student lands on top of your house)

A nice idea for some, bad for the birds and people who have to live on the ground.

[ralfthedog]

Re: The media.

Coming soon to a TV near you, the Plain Channel!

[Mr.Scott123]

DUI

And who is going to stop Joe-sixpack or Jane from flying while intoxicated?

[MrStuder]

FWS

The same geniuses that are running this country. 99.9% of the
drivers out there can't figure out how to make a full stop, use their
turn signals or plan ahead a few seconds, what's to keep them
from messing up my computer by hitting a high tension line?

[Mr.Scott123]

Cynic?

First off UAV's are piloted or are programmed by someone who know's what they are doing. Also around the southern boarder where some UAV's fly, the airspace is restricted and pilot's must avoid the area. Many do not know how to read a map for driving on the ground. What make you think that before these people fly are going to look at a map, check the weather, and are going to read notices where they can't fly?

[K.P.C.]

Awwww, come on people . . .

Waaaah, waaaah, waaaah . . .
Where are they gonna park?

Didn't any of you ever watch The Jetsons?
You land like a feather right outside your office window. Then you
push a button and and your personal aircar folds up nice and neat
into a briefcase that you park right next to your desk.
Like "Duh". . . ;-)

[Travis Ernst]

Point to Mr Scott

Exellant post!! You took a lot of what I was going to say.

FIRST. The Xray (experimental) electric bird mentioned in the
article that was out at the show has ZERO HOURS and has never
even been in the air. So don't give it any credit yet.

SECOND bird to look at is a two stroke, 3 cyl diesel. Both of
these are for the pilot world.

As for small "personal use birds". People will never let it replace
cars. Our ATC system is pretty maxed out, and if we have a
flood of such crafts, it will be, best comparison, a massive
amount of helo's in controlled airspace being ASSIGNED an
elevation to fly, that they MUST then stick to as fixed wings do
to avoid collisions. I can't see people doing that. Not to
mention lack of pads in most Muni's.

It takes about 3 weeks putting in FULL DAYS to get your GA
(general aviation) pilots license for fixed wing Visual only.
Instrument cert takes additional training; not to mention getting
approved for each bird you want to fly (that would mean
different "personal craft") and different gear (retract, set, floats,
amphib, skis).

No FAA will have to overhaul the towers and operaters before
anything like that EVER gets going. I can see it in Charlie Delta
and Echo airspace, but not Bravo. In Charlie it will still get hairy.

You can't have 3000 small "personal" crafts flying around in
downtown chicago, PLUS manage three comm fields at the same
time. Think of that; or in Manhatten. It would be accident
central.

[baldguy61]

Personal Air Vehicles

If you ever get to read an aviation magazine from the mid-20th century, you'll find the subjects are the same as this. We were all supposed to have our own personal aircraft then, too. The reasons it never happened are just as valid today:
Excessive governmental regulation, insurance cost and training required. Yes, small planes can be incredibly fuel-efficient compared to cars and much faster between cities as well. There are huge bars to entry for Joe Sixpack, however. It is a tribute to our governmental system that NASA can spend $250 million to find our what the FAA has known for years. Your tax dollars at work.

[outtanames999]

Stop the mental masturbating

This is a recurring wet dream for any geek. But it's the most ridiculous idea ever. All those idiots who can't drive today would be flying airplanes. Think about it. You can't parallel park, but you're going to fly a plane? Not to mention implications for easy access by terrorists. Oh, and never mind the one reason why this will never, ever work - electric power lines - how will all these airborne bozos land without getting tangled up and electrocuting themselves? On second thought, maybe that's not such a bad idea!

[mattumanu]

What amazes me...

Is the number of people taking a dump on the idea. I'm surprised that so many self important people who think of themselves as such wonderful drivers would assume that everyone else are such terrible drivers.

Actually, that goes with the territory. People who have such a hosed up view of life will always dump on new ideas. It's called hypocrisy and it's rampant.

I can't wait to get my PAV.

[dwimmer38]

flying 2-seaters

Most people are too stupid to drive cars and NASA wants them to pilot planes? I will have to move underground if this happens.

[jsl333]

Personal Aircraft

I applaud efforts to strive for improvement upon the status quo, but when the Cafe Foundation says "People would be able to get a license to fly PAVs as easily as a driver's license", I can tell you this isn't going to happen.

I have been in the flying business 32 years and have trained in and piloted 16 different aircraft. With all of the "crazies" driving in automobiles, you would create a true nightmare by allowing anyone who can "get a drivers license" to be allowed to fly. Wishful thinking but never a reality.

[fl_rider]

Clean up the gene pool

I think this is the best idea I have ever heard.
Let me know when this starts so i can move into a cave when the debris starts falling from the sky.
People cant even drive their cars let alone handle one that flies.
Currently Americans are killing themselves off at a rate of 43,000 a year in their cars. This should get the number a lot higher.
The only one major problem. How do you put little crosses and wreaths in the air?

[danny dawg]

Personal Aircraft

These IS AN EXCITING TIME FOR US...IF WE CAN GET THESE WORKING WITHOUT KILLING OUR SELFS OFF IT WILL BE A GET ADVANTAGE FOR COMMUTERS ALL OVER..
PLANES TRAVELING AT 150 MILES PER HOUR CAN GET COMMUTERS TO OFFICES 400-500 HUNDRED MILES AWAY
AND IF THE CAR CAN HOLD FOUR THE FUEL SAVED, AND THE COST OF PROPERTY CAN SAVE THE CONSUMER THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

[wylbur]

Air Traffic Control

What about a prize for a modernized air traffic control system first?
Developing personal aircraft and slightly larger air taxis is pointless
before we have an air traffic control system that can handle the
extra load.

[SurferJoe46]

What_R_You_Nutz?

Got a great idea there...just don't bring it to Hemet. We've already got old farts who drive on the sidewalks, turn left from the right lane, won't move at green lights and never stop at stop signs...and you want these old geezers to have a flying object with a license that as easy to get as a driver's license is now?

What we really need is to get all the old buttheads OFF the roads and let the working class go to work and contribute to the rest homes for the antiques that pass for drivers now.

They'll be falling from the sky like broken kites after they hit each other.

[hassan_bin_sober]

Flying cars?

Ya right... As a (now retired) holder of an Airline Transport Pilot certificate, one can imagine what a bunch of basically incompetent American automobile drivers would do to the National Airspace System.

No Thanks!... We don't need to turn the airspace into a "real life" game of Space Invaders!

[Highfield]

Hey luddite

That's the same thing the horse and buggy crowd said about the introduction of automobiles. You are about as forward thinking as they were. Common Joes are not going to be able to fly this things until the FAA has a computer controlled system in place. Until then, vehicles such as Moller International's Skycar will require a Powered Lift license. And I don't think you'll find those in a Cracker Jack box.