Comments on: Synthetic diamonds still a rough cut

Lab-made diamonds glitter with promise, but so far they're not significantly cutting into the jewelry market.
Photos: Building diamonds in the lab

[sbwinn]

More extensive article here

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html

[sbwinn]

More extensive article here

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html

[epiccollision]

i little misleading

"When you're buying mined diamonds, you're helping communities in Africa," he said. "When you're buying them made from a machine, you're helping 20 guys in Florida."

what, is debeers a charitable organization now...i remember them being a money grubbing cartel with its boot heel on the entire diamond industry...and I'm sure all their employees are living in mansions and have free health care...who ever was quoted saying this needs a serious ethics lesson, or a tour of the kimberly mines full of "slaves"

[Rob Bates]

re: a little misleading

Hi, I'm the person who made that comment, and I am happy to defend it. I have been critical of De Beers in the past but your information is a little out of date. The company now controls 40 to 50% of the market, which is a large amount, but not the boot-heel of the past. And yes, it is a quite profitable business, but businesses can make a contribution to a community too, and they generally are more effective than charity organizations in lifting a country's living standard in the long-term. My understanding is that their employees do get health care (I can double-check that), and while they don't live in mansions, then again, I don't either. My only point is I think it is wrong to think of lab-grown gems -- which by the way, are a perfectly legitimate product -- as more ethical than mined stones. There is a reason NGOs like Amnesty International as well as respected figures like Nelson Mandela have argued against a boycott of the mined diamond industry -- it's because if there was one, you'd be throwing millions of people out of work. And somehow I don't think all those people can get jobs working machines in Florida. Anyway, I'll be happy to discuss this further, or you can check out the blog I keep at jckonline.com. (JCK Voices)

[epiccollision]

i little misleading

"When you're buying mined diamonds, you're helping communities in Africa," he said. "When you're buying them made from a machine, you're helping 20 guys in Florida."

what, is debeers a charitable organization now...i remember them being a money grubbing cartel with its boot heel on the entire diamond industry...and I'm sure all their employees are living in mansions and have free health care...who ever was quoted saying this needs a serious ethics lesson, or a tour of the kimberly mines full of "slaves"

[Rob Bates]

re: a little misleading

Hi, I'm the person who made that comment, and I am happy to defend it. I have been critical of De Beers in the past but your information is a little out of date. The company now controls 40 to 50% of the market, which is a large amount, but not the boot-heel of the past. And yes, it is a quite profitable business, but businesses can make a contribution to a community too, and they generally are more effective than charity organizations in lifting a country's living standard in the long-term. My understanding is that their employees do get health care (I can double-check that), and while they don't live in mansions, then again, I don't either. My only point is I think it is wrong to think of lab-grown gems -- which by the way, are a perfectly legitimate product -- as more ethical than mined stones. There is a reason NGOs like Amnesty International as well as respected figures like Nelson Mandela have argued against a boycott of the mined diamond industry -- it's because if there was one, you'd be throwing millions of people out of work. And somehow I don't think all those people can get jobs working machines in Florida. Anyway, I'll be happy to discuss this further, or you can check out the blog I keep at jckonline.com. (JCK Voices)

[johnxtampa]

DeBeers would like to thank the author

Anyone interested in this topic should spend an hour doing Google searches.

You'll find articles on both sides of the equation, and even some threads from discussion groups by jewelers.

You'll find articles supporting man-made diamonds, you'll find others against them (this one, for example, definitely leans a little against them), and everything in between.

Draw your own conclusions, but by no means should you draw them from this somewhat lopsided article alone.

[johnxtampa]

DeBeers would like to thank the author

Anyone interested in this topic should spend an hour doing Google searches.

You'll find articles on both sides of the equation, and even some threads from discussion groups by jewelers.

You'll find articles supporting man-made diamonds, you'll find others against them (this one, for example, definitely leans a little against them), and everything in between.

Draw your own conclusions, but by no means should you draw them from this somewhat lopsided article alone.

[pjianwei]

Starbucks exploit coffee farmers.

So lets boycott Starbucks and drink coffee grew by local fat cats. That will help e poor exploited coffee farmers.

[pjianwei]

Starbucks exploit coffee farmers.

So lets boycott Starbucks and drink coffee grew by local fat cats. That will help e poor exploited coffee farmers.

[byakko]

I heart synthetic diamonds

Synthetic diamonds may not be as common as natural diamonds, but nevertheless they're everywhere. Do an eBay seach for "diamond", eliminating keywords "cubic zirconium" and "CZ" and arranging the results from least to most expensive, and you'll see what I mean.

I bought some synthetic diamond earrings this way and found that they are visually indistinguishable from natural diamonds. Personally, I feel better knowing that DeBeers didn't profit from my purchase.

[grossph]

CZ is not the same

cubic zirconia is not the same as a synthetic diamond. Sythetic diamonds have the same chemical and structural properties as a diamond, CZ is not, they only look like diamonds but are not nearly as hard and don't ahve the same chemical properties

[byakko]

I heart synthetic diamonds

Synthetic diamonds may not be as common as natural diamonds, but nevertheless they're everywhere. Do an eBay seach for "diamond", eliminating keywords "cubic zirconium" and "CZ" and arranging the results from least to most expensive, and you'll see what I mean.

I bought some synthetic diamond earrings this way and found that they are visually indistinguishable from natural diamonds. Personally, I feel better knowing that DeBeers didn't profit from my purchase.

[grossph]

CZ is not the same

cubic zirconia is not the same as a synthetic diamond. Sythetic diamonds have the same chemical and structural properties as a diamond, CZ is not, they only look like diamonds but are not nearly as hard and don't ahve the same chemical properties

[Almadenmike]

Typo: Kilowatts is power, not energy

"It uses about 20 kilowatts of energy per carat." But kilowatts is a measure of power, not energy. Possibly the author meant 20 kilowatt-hours per carat?

(For comparison, in my last utility bill, PG&E charged me from 11.4 to 22.9 cents for a single kilowatt hour of eletrical energy they delivered; the price depending on baseline and higher usage levels.)

[Almadenmike]

Typo: Kilowatts is power, not energy

"It uses about 20 kilowatts of energy per carat." But kilowatts is a measure of power, not energy. Possibly the author meant 20 kilowatt-hours per carat?

(For comparison, in my last utility bill, PG&E charged me from 11.4 to 22.9 cents for a single kilowatt hour of eletrical energy they delivered; the price depending on baseline and higher usage levels.)

[Yet Another Mark Johnson]

Razor Blades & CPU's

What is really interesting to me is the prospect of creating new diamond-based products that haven't been practical until now. I'm wondering how long it will be before I can buy a razor that has a diamond blade, as an example. How many hundreds of dollars will the average guy spend in his lifetime replacing steel blades he shaves with? Who wouldn't pay a couple hundred bucks for a razor that will last the rest of your life and never need to be sharpened? Seems like that's the sort of product that these startups ought to be working on.

[mofo111]

Razor Blades

Concerning razor blades, I think that it's a bit more complicated
than just finding a material that is very hard and strong. The
advanced ceramics company, Kyocera, makes very good ceramic
knives and other ceramic parts. I have one of their ceramic
knives that I bought in Japan. It has stayed sharp for years
without resharpening (in fact, ceramic knives can't be
resharpened). It turns out that they also investigated the idea of
making ceramic razor blades but they didn't work very well, not
because they didn't remain sharp but because they caused too
many knicks and cuts in the skin. I think that it had something
to do with the relative lack of flexibility of the blade with respect
to metal blades. Diamond, which is not a very flexible material,
is likely to have the same problem.

[ThePenguin]

Razor Blades

I have 5 common schick type single blade disposable razors, that I have had and have been using for 5 years. those blades were treated to cryogenic tempering, no diamond coating needed. I paid less than $10 for the "set"

My Henckels knives are treated to same process from the factory, but not with the same good results as the razors, but kitchen knives take a lot more of a beating.

Diamonds in the pots and pans are a different story, in 1992 I had a friend in the Ukraine involved with a start up company that did plasma vapor depositing of diamonds, and sent me one of their first commercial products, a 12" skillet treated with this process. To this day I still have that skillet, and the non stick surface doesn't even show a scratch, works better than teflon, certainly lasts longer. A major manufacturer picked up the process, and has been selling the wares for a few years now.

[Yet Another Mark Johnson]

Razor Blades & CPU's

What is really interesting to me is the prospect of creating new diamond-based products that haven't been practical until now. I'm wondering how long it will be before I can buy a razor that has a diamond blade, as an example. How many hundreds of dollars will the average guy spend in his lifetime replacing steel blades he shaves with? Who wouldn't pay a couple hundred bucks for a razor that will last the rest of your life and never need to be sharpened? Seems like that's the sort of product that these startups ought to be working on.

[mofo111]

Razor Blades

Concerning razor blades, I think that it's a bit more complicated
than just finding a material that is very hard and strong. The
advanced ceramics company, Kyocera, makes very good ceramic
knives and other ceramic parts. I have one of their ceramic
knives that I bought in Japan. It has stayed sharp for years
without resharpening (in fact, ceramic knives can't be
resharpened). It turns out that they also investigated the idea of
making ceramic razor blades but they didn't work very well, not
because they didn't remain sharp but because they caused too
many knicks and cuts in the skin. I think that it had something
to do with the relative lack of flexibility of the blade with respect
to metal blades. Diamond, which is not a very flexible material,
is likely to have the same problem.

[ThePenguin]

Razor Blades

I have 5 common schick type single blade disposable razors, that I have had and have been using for 5 years. those blades were treated to cryogenic tempering, no diamond coating needed. I paid less than $10 for the "set"

My Henckels knives are treated to same process from the factory, but not with the same good results as the razors, but kitchen knives take a lot more of a beating.

Diamonds in the pots and pans are a different story, in 1992 I had a friend in the Ukraine involved with a start up company that did plasma vapor depositing of diamonds, and sent me one of their first commercial products, a 12" skillet treated with this process. To this day I still have that skillet, and the non stick surface doesn't even show a scratch, works better than teflon, certainly lasts longer. A major manufacturer picked up the process, and has been selling the wares for a few years now.

[bemenaker]

WooHoo Bring on cheaper diamonds

It's total and complete BS the price of diamonds to begin with. Carbon is the second most abundant element in the universe behind hydrogen? ( I am not sure if that is still held as a true belief ) Diamonds ARE NOT RARE! There is no reason for the high price that exists on these things.

I welcome machine made diamonds that are more perfect than anything you can find in nature. I also hope that the guy trying to get a diamond mind going in Montana is successful. Screw DeBeers.

[bemenaker]

WooHoo Bring on cheaper diamonds

It's total and complete BS the price of diamonds to begin with. Carbon is the second most abundant element in the universe behind hydrogen? ( I am not sure if that is still held as a true belief ) Diamonds ARE NOT RARE! There is no reason for the high price that exists on these things.

I welcome machine made diamonds that are more perfect than anything you can find in nature. I also hope that the guy trying to get a diamond mind going in Montana is successful. Screw DeBeers.

[jeffhughes1]

Still responsible...

There is no shortage of diamonds in this world. The stockpiles could provide the world's demands for decades to come. So it is the diamond industry that is directly setting the supply and market price by what they release. That over-inflated value is what caused conflict diamonds and the problems in Africa. DeBeers and their industry is DIRECTLY responsible for this.

Ask anyone who has lived in an African diamond nation and also in America or another developed nation. They will tell you that they wished diamonds had never been discovered there. Diamonds did NOT help Africa. People like Nelson Mandela are just being realistic about which is the lesser poison at this point in time.

The same could be said for the oil industry. The difference is that right now the world could not function without oil. We could live just fine without diamonds on our fingers.

I think you'll be surprised in the near future about the demand for synthetic diamonds once people are educated about them. Ethics and morals aside I would still go for man-made being a big technology nerd.

[jeffhughes1]

Still responsible...

There is no shortage of diamonds in this world. The stockpiles could provide the world's demands for decades to come. So it is the diamond industry that is directly setting the supply and market price by what they release. That over-inflated value is what caused conflict diamonds and the problems in Africa. DeBeers and their industry is DIRECTLY responsible for this.

Ask anyone who has lived in an African diamond nation and also in America or another developed nation. They will tell you that they wished diamonds had never been discovered there. Diamonds did NOT help Africa. People like Nelson Mandela are just being realistic about which is the lesser poison at this point in time.

The same could be said for the oil industry. The difference is that right now the world could not function without oil. We could live just fine without diamonds on our fingers.

I think you'll be surprised in the near future about the demand for synthetic diamonds once people are educated about them. Ethics and morals aside I would still go for man-made being a big technology nerd.

[wjzo]

what is it about diamonds

With regards to the overwhelming demand for diamonds, I am
trying to understand why otherwise intelligent, progressive women
who again and again buck society's expectations and traditions still
cherish diamonds, especially considering the turmoil and
exploitation that encompasses each precious stone. Also, what is
the purpose of wedding rings at all? Good quotes in this article.

[ralfthedog]

"Also, what is the purpose of wedding rings at all?"

"Also, what is the purpose of wedding rings at all?"

Wedding rings help keep single guys like me from making total idiots out of our selves by asking out married chicks.

Now we just make partial idiots out of our selves by asking out single chicks.

[Seaspray0]

Maybe this

They are precious stones, rare, the hardest natural substance known to mankind, and when cut/polished into a pattern become pretty. I'd rate their value for those reasons higher than why people spend fortunes on "collectables" (i.e. baseball cards, stamps, beanie babies...).

[wjzo]

what is it about diamonds

With regards to the overwhelming demand for diamonds, I am
trying to understand why otherwise intelligent, progressive women
who again and again buck society's expectations and traditions still
cherish diamonds, especially considering the turmoil and
exploitation that encompasses each precious stone. Also, what is
the purpose of wedding rings at all? Good quotes in this article.

[ralfthedog]

"Also, what is the purpose of wedding rings at all?"

"Also, what is the purpose of wedding rings at all?"

Wedding rings help keep single guys like me from making total idiots out of our selves by asking out married chicks.

Now we just make partial idiots out of our selves by asking out single chicks.

[Seaspray0]

Maybe this

They are precious stones, rare, the hardest natural substance known to mankind, and when cut/polished into a pattern become pretty. I'd rate their value for those reasons higher than why people spend fortunes on "collectables" (i.e. baseball cards, stamps, beanie babies...).