"When you're buying mined diamonds, you're helping communities in Africa," he said. "When you're buying them made from a machine, you're helping 20 guys in Florida."
what, is debeers a charitable organization now...i remember them being a money grubbing cartel with its boot heel on the entire diamond industry...and I'm sure all their employees are living in mansions and have free health care...who ever was quoted saying this needs a serious ethics lesson, or a tour of the kimberly mines full of "slaves"
Hi, I'm the person who made that comment, and I am happy to defend it. I have been critical of De Beers in the past but your information is a little out of date. The company now controls 40 to 50% of the market, which is a large amount, but not the boot-heel of the past. And yes, it is a quite profitable business, but businesses can make a contribution to a community too, and they generally are more effective than charity organizations in lifting a country's living standard in the long-term. My understanding is that their employees do get health care (I can double-check that), and while they don't live in mansions, then again, I don't either. My only point is I think it is wrong to think of lab-grown gems -- which by the way, are a perfectly legitimate product -- as more ethical than mined stones. There is a reason NGOs like Amnesty International as well as respected figures like Nelson Mandela have argued against a boycott of the mined diamond industry -- it's because if there was one, you'd be throwing millions of people out of work. And somehow I don't think all those people can get jobs working machines in Florida. Anyway, I'll be happy to discuss this further, or you can check out the blog I keep at jckonline.com. (JCK Voices)
"When you're buying mined diamonds, you're helping communities in Africa," he said. "When you're buying them made from a machine, you're helping 20 guys in Florida."
what, is debeers a charitable organization now...i remember them being a money grubbing cartel with its boot heel on the entire diamond industry...and I'm sure all their employees are living in mansions and have free health care...who ever was quoted saying this needs a serious ethics lesson, or a tour of the kimberly mines full of "slaves"
Hi, I'm the person who made that comment, and I am happy to defend it. I have been critical of De Beers in the past but your information is a little out of date. The company now controls 40 to 50% of the market, which is a large amount, but not the boot-heel of the past. And yes, it is a quite profitable business, but businesses can make a contribution to a community too, and they generally are more effective than charity organizations in lifting a country's living standard in the long-term. My understanding is that their employees do get health care (I can double-check that), and while they don't live in mansions, then again, I don't either. My only point is I think it is wrong to think of lab-grown gems -- which by the way, are a perfectly legitimate product -- as more ethical than mined stones. There is a reason NGOs like Amnesty International as well as respected figures like Nelson Mandela have argued against a boycott of the mined diamond industry -- it's because if there was one, you'd be throwing millions of people out of work. And somehow I don't think all those people can get jobs working machines in Florida. Anyway, I'll be happy to discuss this further, or you can check out the blog I keep at jckonline.com. (JCK Voices)
Anyone interested in this topic should spend an hour doing Google searches.
You'll find articles on both sides of the equation, and even some threads from discussion groups by jewelers.
You'll find articles supporting man-made diamonds, you'll find others against them (this one, for example, definitely leans a little against them), and everything in between.
Draw your own conclusions, but by no means should you draw them from this somewhat lopsided article alone.
Anyone interested in this topic should spend an hour doing Google searches.
You'll find articles on both sides of the equation, and even some threads from discussion groups by jewelers.
You'll find articles supporting man-made diamonds, you'll find others against them (this one, for example, definitely leans a little against them), and everything in between.
Draw your own conclusions, but by no means should you draw them from this somewhat lopsided article alone.
Synthetic diamonds may not be as common as natural diamonds, but nevertheless they're everywhere. Do an eBay seach for "diamond", eliminating keywords "cubic zirconium" and "CZ" and arranging the results from least to most expensive, and you'll see what I mean.
I bought some synthetic diamond earrings this way and found that they are visually indistinguishable from natural diamonds. Personally, I feel better knowing that DeBeers didn't profit from my purchase.
cubic zirconia is not the same as a synthetic diamond. Sythetic diamonds have the same chemical and structural properties as a diamond, CZ is not, they only look like diamonds but are not nearly as hard and don't ahve the same chemical properties
Synthetic diamonds may not be as common as natural diamonds, but nevertheless they're everywhere. Do an eBay seach for "diamond", eliminating keywords "cubic zirconium" and "CZ" and arranging the results from least to most expensive, and you'll see what I mean.
I bought some synthetic diamond earrings this way and found that they are visually indistinguishable from natural diamonds. Personally, I feel better knowing that DeBeers didn't profit from my purchase.
cubic zirconia is not the same as a synthetic diamond. Sythetic diamonds have the same chemical and structural properties as a diamond, CZ is not, they only look like diamonds but are not nearly as hard and don't ahve the same chemical properties
"It uses about 20 kilowatts of energy per carat." But kilowatts is a measure of power, not energy. Possibly the author meant 20 kilowatt-hours per carat?
(For comparison, in my last utility bill, PG&E charged me from 11.4 to 22.9 cents for a single kilowatt hour of eletrical energy they delivered; the price depending on baseline and higher usage levels.)
"It uses about 20 kilowatts of energy per carat." But kilowatts is a measure of power, not energy. Possibly the author meant 20 kilowatt-hours per carat?
(For comparison, in my last utility bill, PG&E charged me from 11.4 to 22.9 cents for a single kilowatt hour of eletrical energy they delivered; the price depending on baseline and higher usage levels.)
What is really interesting to me is the prospect of creating new diamond-based products that haven't been practical until now. I'm wondering how long it will be before I can buy a razor that has a diamond blade, as an example. How many hundreds of dollars will the average guy spend in his lifetime replacing steel blades he shaves with? Who wouldn't pay a couple hundred bucks for a razor that will last the rest of your life and never need to be sharpened? Seems like that's the sort of product that these startups ought to be working on.
Concerning razor blades, I think that it's a bit more complicated than just finding a material that is very hard and strong. The advanced ceramics company, Kyocera, makes very good ceramic knives and other ceramic parts. I have one of their ceramic knives that I bought in Japan. It has stayed sharp for years without resharpening (in fact, ceramic knives can't be resharpened). It turns out that they also investigated the idea of making ceramic razor blades but they didn't work very well, not because they didn't remain sharp but because they caused too many knicks and cuts in the skin. I think that it had something to do with the relative lack of flexibility of the blade with respect to metal blades. Diamond, which is not a very flexible material, is likely to have the same problem.
I have 5 common schick type single blade disposable razors, that I have had and have been using for 5 years. those blades were treated to cryogenic tempering, no diamond coating needed. I paid less than $10 for the "set"
My Henckels knives are treated to same process from the factory, but not with the same good results as the razors, but kitchen knives take a lot more of a beating.
Diamonds in the pots and pans are a different story, in 1992 I had a friend in the Ukraine involved with a start up company that did plasma vapor depositing of diamonds, and sent me one of their first commercial products, a 12" skillet treated with this process. To this day I still have that skillet, and the non stick surface doesn't even show a scratch, works better than teflon, certainly lasts longer. A major manufacturer picked up the process, and has been selling the wares for a few years now.
What is really interesting to me is the prospect of creating new diamond-based products that haven't been practical until now. I'm wondering how long it will be before I can buy a razor that has a diamond blade, as an example. How many hundreds of dollars will the average guy spend in his lifetime replacing steel blades he shaves with? Who wouldn't pay a couple hundred bucks for a razor that will last the rest of your life and never need to be sharpened? Seems like that's the sort of product that these startups ought to be working on.
Concerning razor blades, I think that it's a bit more complicated than just finding a material that is very hard and strong. The advanced ceramics company, Kyocera, makes very good ceramic knives and other ceramic parts. I have one of their ceramic knives that I bought in Japan. It has stayed sharp for years without resharpening (in fact, ceramic knives can't be resharpened). It turns out that they also investigated the idea of making ceramic razor blades but they didn't work very well, not because they didn't remain sharp but because they caused too many knicks and cuts in the skin. I think that it had something to do with the relative lack of flexibility of the blade with respect to metal blades. Diamond, which is not a very flexible material, is likely to have the same problem.
I have 5 common schick type single blade disposable razors, that I have had and have been using for 5 years. those blades were treated to cryogenic tempering, no diamond coating needed. I paid less than $10 for the "set"
My Henckels knives are treated to same process from the factory, but not with the same good results as the razors, but kitchen knives take a lot more of a beating.
Diamonds in the pots and pans are a different story, in 1992 I had a friend in the Ukraine involved with a start up company that did plasma vapor depositing of diamonds, and sent me one of their first commercial products, a 12" skillet treated with this process. To this day I still have that skillet, and the non stick surface doesn't even show a scratch, works better than teflon, certainly lasts longer. A major manufacturer picked up the process, and has been selling the wares for a few years now.
It's total and complete BS the price of diamonds to begin with. Carbon is the second most abundant element in the universe behind hydrogen? ( I am not sure if that is still held as a true belief ) Diamonds ARE NOT RARE! There is no reason for the high price that exists on these things.
I welcome machine made diamonds that are more perfect than anything you can find in nature. I also hope that the guy trying to get a diamond mind going in Montana is successful. Screw DeBeers.
It's total and complete BS the price of diamonds to begin with. Carbon is the second most abundant element in the universe behind hydrogen? ( I am not sure if that is still held as a true belief ) Diamonds ARE NOT RARE! There is no reason for the high price that exists on these things.
I welcome machine made diamonds that are more perfect than anything you can find in nature. I also hope that the guy trying to get a diamond mind going in Montana is successful. Screw DeBeers.
There is no shortage of diamonds in this world. The stockpiles could provide the world's demands for decades to come. So it is the diamond industry that is directly setting the supply and market price by what they release. That over-inflated value is what caused conflict diamonds and the problems in Africa. DeBeers and their industry is DIRECTLY responsible for this.
Ask anyone who has lived in an African diamond nation and also in America or another developed nation. They will tell you that they wished diamonds had never been discovered there. Diamonds did NOT help Africa. People like Nelson Mandela are just being realistic about which is the lesser poison at this point in time.
The same could be said for the oil industry. The difference is that right now the world could not function without oil. We could live just fine without diamonds on our fingers.
I think you'll be surprised in the near future about the demand for synthetic diamonds once people are educated about them. Ethics and morals aside I would still go for man-made being a big technology nerd.
There is no shortage of diamonds in this world. The stockpiles could provide the world's demands for decades to come. So it is the diamond industry that is directly setting the supply and market price by what they release. That over-inflated value is what caused conflict diamonds and the problems in Africa. DeBeers and their industry is DIRECTLY responsible for this.
Ask anyone who has lived in an African diamond nation and also in America or another developed nation. They will tell you that they wished diamonds had never been discovered there. Diamonds did NOT help Africa. People like Nelson Mandela are just being realistic about which is the lesser poison at this point in time.
The same could be said for the oil industry. The difference is that right now the world could not function without oil. We could live just fine without diamonds on our fingers.
I think you'll be surprised in the near future about the demand for synthetic diamonds once people are educated about them. Ethics and morals aside I would still go for man-made being a big technology nerd.
With regards to the overwhelming demand for diamonds, I am trying to understand why otherwise intelligent, progressive women who again and again buck society's expectations and traditions still cherish diamonds, especially considering the turmoil and exploitation that encompasses each precious stone. Also, what is the purpose of wedding rings at all? Good quotes in this article.
They are precious stones, rare, the hardest natural substance known to mankind, and when cut/polished into a pattern become pretty. I'd rate their value for those reasons higher than why people spend fortunes on "collectables" (i.e. baseball cards, stamps, beanie babies...).
With regards to the overwhelming demand for diamonds, I am trying to understand why otherwise intelligent, progressive women who again and again buck society's expectations and traditions still cherish diamonds, especially considering the turmoil and exploitation that encompasses each precious stone. Also, what is the purpose of wedding rings at all? Good quotes in this article.
They are precious stones, rare, the hardest natural substance known to mankind, and when cut/polished into a pattern become pretty. I'd rate their value for those reasons higher than why people spend fortunes on "collectables" (i.e. baseball cards, stamps, beanie babies...).
Dear Rob Bates, If diamond mines really "help the community", how come we're not hearing this feel-good story on the news? And how does this good that you're doing outweigh the millions that die because of the conflict diamonds? I'm sure that some conflict-free diamonds exist, but that doesn't discount the fact that the market is filled with lots of stones that aren't.
And what of those "20 guys in Florida"? What if they found a way to short circuit bloody rebels in Africa, champion human rights, and manage to fill their pockets at the same time? Not only are they solving world problems, but they're smart, too. I'd say that I want my money to go to them.
At the end of the day, it's just a shiny rock. It's just a stone that glitters. It's not life-giving and you can't take it with you to wherever you go after you die. So, if people have died over it, if it's funding unrighteous unrest, and if it's enslaving others, what is its real value?
No one's denying conflict diamonds are a terrible thing.
Here is that feel-good story on the news: <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/12/11/koinange.botswana/index.html" target="_newWindow">http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/12/11/koinange.botswana/index.html</a>
Dear Rob Bates, If diamond mines really "help the community", how come we're not hearing this feel-good story on the news? And how does this good that you're doing outweigh the millions that die because of the conflict diamonds? I'm sure that some conflict-free diamonds exist, but that doesn't discount the fact that the market is filled with lots of stones that aren't.
And what of those "20 guys in Florida"? What if they found a way to short circuit bloody rebels in Africa, champion human rights, and manage to fill their pockets at the same time? Not only are they solving world problems, but they're smart, too. I'd say that I want my money to go to them.
At the end of the day, it's just a shiny rock. It's just a stone that glitters. It's not life-giving and you can't take it with you to wherever you go after you die. So, if people have died over it, if it's funding unrighteous unrest, and if it's enslaving others, what is its real value?
No one's denying conflict diamonds are a terrible thing.
Here is that feel-good story on the news: <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/12/11/koinange.botswana/index.html" target="_newWindow">http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/12/11/koinange.botswana/index.html</a>
Needless to say De Beers was not too happy about diamond making technology after spending gillions buying up natural sources decade upon decade. As luck would have it they came up with a response to the market threat. Instead of raving about color and clarity, turn those in to vices and turn imperfections in to virtues. AH HA! Natural diamonds are riddled with natural flaws! Perfect diamonds are, um, just this side of FAKE! Yeah, so I guess purified water is FAKE water? I don't think so.
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what, is debeers a charitable organization now...i remember them being a money grubbing cartel with its boot heel on the entire diamond industry...and I'm sure all their employees are living in mansions and have free health care...who ever was quoted saying this needs a serious ethics lesson, or a tour of the kimberly mines full of "slaves"
what, is debeers a charitable organization now...i remember them being a money grubbing cartel with its boot heel on the entire diamond industry...and I'm sure all their employees are living in mansions and have free health care...who ever was quoted saying this needs a serious ethics lesson, or a tour of the kimberly mines full of "slaves"
You'll find articles on both sides of the equation, and even some threads from discussion groups by jewelers.
You'll find articles supporting man-made diamonds, you'll find others against them (this one, for example, definitely leans a little against them), and everything in between.
Draw your own conclusions, but by no means should you draw them from this somewhat lopsided article alone.
You'll find articles on both sides of the equation, and even some threads from discussion groups by jewelers.
You'll find articles supporting man-made diamonds, you'll find others against them (this one, for example, definitely leans a little against them), and everything in between.
Draw your own conclusions, but by no means should you draw them from this somewhat lopsided article alone.
I bought some synthetic diamond earrings this way and found that they are visually indistinguishable from natural diamonds. Personally, I feel better knowing that DeBeers didn't profit from my purchase.
I bought some synthetic diamond earrings this way and found that they are visually indistinguishable from natural diamonds. Personally, I feel better knowing that DeBeers didn't profit from my purchase.
(For comparison, in my last utility bill, PG&E charged me from 11.4 to 22.9 cents for a single kilowatt hour of eletrical energy they delivered; the price depending on baseline and higher usage levels.)
(For comparison, in my last utility bill, PG&E charged me from 11.4 to 22.9 cents for a single kilowatt hour of eletrical energy they delivered; the price depending on baseline and higher usage levels.)
than just finding a material that is very hard and strong. The
advanced ceramics company, Kyocera, makes very good ceramic
knives and other ceramic parts. I have one of their ceramic
knives that I bought in Japan. It has stayed sharp for years
without resharpening (in fact, ceramic knives can't be
resharpened). It turns out that they also investigated the idea of
making ceramic razor blades but they didn't work very well, not
because they didn't remain sharp but because they caused too
many knicks and cuts in the skin. I think that it had something
to do with the relative lack of flexibility of the blade with respect
to metal blades. Diamond, which is not a very flexible material,
is likely to have the same problem.
My Henckels knives are treated to same process from the factory, but not with the same good results as the razors, but kitchen knives take a lot more of a beating.
Diamonds in the pots and pans are a different story, in 1992 I had a friend in the Ukraine involved with a start up company that did plasma vapor depositing of diamonds, and sent me one of their first commercial products, a 12" skillet treated with this process. To this day I still have that skillet, and the non stick surface doesn't even show a scratch, works better than teflon, certainly lasts longer. A major manufacturer picked up the process, and has been selling the wares for a few years now.
than just finding a material that is very hard and strong. The
advanced ceramics company, Kyocera, makes very good ceramic
knives and other ceramic parts. I have one of their ceramic
knives that I bought in Japan. It has stayed sharp for years
without resharpening (in fact, ceramic knives can't be
resharpened). It turns out that they also investigated the idea of
making ceramic razor blades but they didn't work very well, not
because they didn't remain sharp but because they caused too
many knicks and cuts in the skin. I think that it had something
to do with the relative lack of flexibility of the blade with respect
to metal blades. Diamond, which is not a very flexible material,
is likely to have the same problem.
My Henckels knives are treated to same process from the factory, but not with the same good results as the razors, but kitchen knives take a lot more of a beating.
Diamonds in the pots and pans are a different story, in 1992 I had a friend in the Ukraine involved with a start up company that did plasma vapor depositing of diamonds, and sent me one of their first commercial products, a 12" skillet treated with this process. To this day I still have that skillet, and the non stick surface doesn't even show a scratch, works better than teflon, certainly lasts longer. A major manufacturer picked up the process, and has been selling the wares for a few years now.
I welcome machine made diamonds that are more perfect than anything you can find in nature. I also hope that the guy trying to get a diamond mind going in Montana is successful. Screw DeBeers.
I welcome machine made diamonds that are more perfect than anything you can find in nature. I also hope that the guy trying to get a diamond mind going in Montana is successful. Screw DeBeers.
Ask anyone who has lived in an African diamond nation and also in America or another developed nation. They will tell you that they wished diamonds had never been discovered there. Diamonds did NOT help Africa. People like Nelson Mandela are just being realistic about which is the lesser poison at this point in time.
The same could be said for the oil industry. The difference is that right now the world could not function without oil. We could live just fine without diamonds on our fingers.
I think you'll be surprised in the near future about the demand for synthetic diamonds once people are educated about them. Ethics and morals aside I would still go for man-made being a big technology nerd.
Ask anyone who has lived in an African diamond nation and also in America or another developed nation. They will tell you that they wished diamonds had never been discovered there. Diamonds did NOT help Africa. People like Nelson Mandela are just being realistic about which is the lesser poison at this point in time.
The same could be said for the oil industry. The difference is that right now the world could not function without oil. We could live just fine without diamonds on our fingers.
I think you'll be surprised in the near future about the demand for synthetic diamonds once people are educated about them. Ethics and morals aside I would still go for man-made being a big technology nerd.
trying to understand why otherwise intelligent, progressive women
who again and again buck society's expectations and traditions still
cherish diamonds, especially considering the turmoil and
exploitation that encompasses each precious stone. Also, what is
the purpose of wedding rings at all? Good quotes in this article.
Wedding rings help keep single guys like me from making total idiots out of our selves by asking out married chicks.
Now we just make partial idiots out of our selves by asking out single chicks.
trying to understand why otherwise intelligent, progressive women
who again and again buck society's expectations and traditions still
cherish diamonds, especially considering the turmoil and
exploitation that encompasses each precious stone. Also, what is
the purpose of wedding rings at all? Good quotes in this article.
Wedding rings help keep single guys like me from making total idiots out of our selves by asking out married chicks.
Now we just make partial idiots out of our selves by asking out single chicks.
If diamond mines really "help the community", how come we're not hearing this feel-good story on the news? And how does this good that you're doing outweigh the millions that die because of the conflict diamonds? I'm sure that some conflict-free diamonds exist, but that doesn't discount the fact that the market is filled with lots of stones that aren't.
And what of those "20 guys in Florida"? What if they found a way to short circuit bloody rebels in Africa, champion human rights, and manage to fill their pockets at the same time? Not only are they solving world problems, but they're smart, too. I'd say that I want my money to go to them.
At the end of the day, it's just a shiny rock. It's just a stone that glitters. It's not life-giving and you can't take it with you to wherever you go after you die. So, if people have died over it, if it's funding unrighteous unrest, and if it's enslaving others, what is its real value?
Here is that feel-good story on the news:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/12/11/koinange.botswana/index.html" target="_newWindow">http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/12/11/koinange.botswana/index.html</a>
If diamond mines really "help the community", how come we're not hearing this feel-good story on the news? And how does this good that you're doing outweigh the millions that die because of the conflict diamonds? I'm sure that some conflict-free diamonds exist, but that doesn't discount the fact that the market is filled with lots of stones that aren't.
And what of those "20 guys in Florida"? What if they found a way to short circuit bloody rebels in Africa, champion human rights, and manage to fill their pockets at the same time? Not only are they solving world problems, but they're smart, too. I'd say that I want my money to go to them.
At the end of the day, it's just a shiny rock. It's just a stone that glitters. It's not life-giving and you can't take it with you to wherever you go after you die. So, if people have died over it, if it's funding unrighteous unrest, and if it's enslaving others, what is its real value?
Here is that feel-good story on the news:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/12/11/koinange.botswana/index.html" target="_newWindow">http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/12/11/koinange.botswana/index.html</a>