Comments on: FAQ: Guide to alternative fuels

Here's a handy guide to the major players in the alternative fuel world.
Photos: Fuels of the future

[Paninteas]

Where oil comes from

oil comes from plants and animals. it doesn't exist without them. Astroids don't have any oil unless a plant or an animal was their to combine the raw materials to create it. While we're on misconceptions, how about the oxygen in the air. from trees and plants. Half right. from algae.
the water covers approximately 71% of the earth and algae grows on top of most of it. A tree shades its own leaves as well as grass. the conversion of CO2 to O2 works in sunlight. the more sunlight the more conversion as long as the other materials to make the conversion are there. Our oceans are are real treasure. There is more oil and everything else man might need at the bottom of the ocean than man has plundered in his entire existance. and most life starts with algae and plankton. We should be farming it. whatever man could remove would be replaced with in 24 hours.

[Paninteas]

Where oil comes from

oil comes from plants and animals. it doesn't exist without them. Astroids don't have any oil unless a plant or an animal was their to combine the raw materials to create it. While we're on misconceptions, how about the oxygen in the air. from trees and plants. Half right. from algae.
the water covers approximately 71% of the earth and algae grows on top of most of it. A tree shades its own leaves as well as grass. the conversion of CO2 to O2 works in sunlight. the more sunlight the more conversion as long as the other materials to make the conversion are there. Our oceans are are real treasure. There is more oil and everything else man might need at the bottom of the ocean than man has plundered in his entire existance. and most life starts with algae and plankton. We should be farming it. whatever man could remove would be replaced with in 24 hours.

[38prime]

alternative fuels produced locally

would it be cheaper if major cities or states had their own fuel producing plants using one or more of the alternatives that work just for their area.
Say a city that is self supportive as far as fuel.

Just an idea please talk back tell me what you think.

[billmosby]

How many kinds?

How many different types of fuel would there be? If transports
(dare I say cars...) wanted to travel among various cities, would
they have to be able to use, oh, I don't know, 25 different kinds
of fuel?

Not to be too picky, but I don't think there has been one kind of
alternative fuel produced yet, in the sense that a usefully
positive energy balance has been achieved. So far, everything
has been leveraged off of oil, which is pretty much free energy
lying around for the taking, from an energy balance standpoint,
as distinct from a financial standpoint.

If you had to burn ethanol to make ethanol, you'd only be able
to use a very modest percentage of the product for uses other
than making it. With oil, its pretty much the other way around-
you use a modest percentage of its energy to get it out of the
ground, process it, and transport it to the point of use.

[38prime]

alternative fuels produced locally

would it be cheaper if major cities or states had their own fuel producing plants using one or more of the alternatives that work just for their area.
Say a city that is self supportive as far as fuel.

Just an idea please talk back tell me what you think.

[billmosby]

How many kinds?

How many different types of fuel would there be? If transports
(dare I say cars...) wanted to travel among various cities, would
they have to be able to use, oh, I don't know, 25 different kinds
of fuel?

Not to be too picky, but I don't think there has been one kind of
alternative fuel produced yet, in the sense that a usefully
positive energy balance has been achieved. So far, everything
has been leveraged off of oil, which is pretty much free energy
lying around for the taking, from an energy balance standpoint,
as distinct from a financial standpoint.

If you had to burn ethanol to make ethanol, you'd only be able
to use a very modest percentage of the product for uses other
than making it. With oil, its pretty much the other way around-
you use a modest percentage of its energy to get it out of the
ground, process it, and transport it to the point of use.

[spothannah]

Who's in charge?

If oil drops below ~$55/barrel then alternatives become more attractive. But who sets that price? It seems to me as more advances are made on alternatives the oil price drops. Is this a coincidence? It seems designed (I hope I'm not paranoid on this) to discourage alternatives. If this is so, what if the goverment put an increasing tax on oil. That would drive the price up and then cause the oil companies to drop their price or else face the inceasing attractiveness of alternatives and thus the loss of their revenues. Does this make any sense to anyone?
Just a thought.

[billmosby]

Sounds backwards...

Alternatives are more expensive than oil, so when oil drops below
some price level (I have heard around $55), the alternatives tend to
be ignored again. So the price of oil needs to stay up to get
alternatives going.

[spothannah]

Who's in charge?

If oil drops below ~$55/barrel then alternatives become more attractive. But who sets that price? It seems to me as more advances are made on alternatives the oil price drops. Is this a coincidence? It seems designed (I hope I'm not paranoid on this) to discourage alternatives. If this is so, what if the goverment put an increasing tax on oil. That would drive the price up and then cause the oil companies to drop their price or else face the inceasing attractiveness of alternatives and thus the loss of their revenues. Does this make any sense to anyone?
Just a thought.

[billmosby]

Sounds backwards...

Alternatives are more expensive than oil, so when oil drops below
some price level (I have heard around $55), the alternatives tend to
be ignored again. So the price of oil needs to stay up to get
alternatives going.

[strashnoy]

Technology vs. Law

The solution is not technological but organizational/administrative one.
The fuel we are using used for transportation and this is mostly for going to workplace.
So the US is using far more gas than any other nation in the world because we are driving to work more than any nation in the world. Another side of it is energy consumed by fixed assets such as office building street light etc. (Office buildings consume 20% of US energy)

Let's talk about transportation first. Do we really have to go to the office 5 days a week in post industrial world? Or work 40 hours? Simple change to 4 days 35h week will save us one fifth ( or 20%) of the gas we are spending on our work drive. That is tremendous saving that will be very hard to achieve with any technology!!

[NateTech]

why not telecommuting now

All the politicians seem to want to do (like Engineers) is come up with "something new". In many cases, giving corporations a tax (or other) incentive to have their staff STAY HOME and work, would fix a whole lot of TODAY's problems.

[strashnoy]

Technology vs. Law

The solution is not technological but organizational/administrative one.
The fuel we are using used for transportation and this is mostly for going to workplace.
So the US is using far more gas than any other nation in the world because we are driving to work more than any nation in the world. Another side of it is energy consumed by fixed assets such as office building street light etc. (Office buildings consume 20% of US energy)

Let's talk about transportation first. Do we really have to go to the office 5 days a week in post industrial world? Or work 40 hours? Simple change to 4 days 35h week will save us one fifth ( or 20%) of the gas we are spending on our work drive. That is tremendous saving that will be very hard to achieve with any technology!!

[NateTech]

why not telecommuting now

All the politicians seem to want to do (like Engineers) is come up with "something new". In many cases, giving corporations a tax (or other) incentive to have their staff STAY HOME and work, would fix a whole lot of TODAY's problems.

[herby67]

Simpel analysis

Of all those technologies one of them is:
1) the cheapest to build a vehicle for
2) The most economically and energetically efficient
3) The most environmentally friendly
4) The simplest.
5) The most reliable
6) The most fun to drive given its power characteristics
7) The one that's improving faster each year
8) The one that has more potential for improvement in performance, reliablility and building and operational cost (already better than the others in most of those aspects).

It only has one disadvantage (range) and it is closing fast, expected to be on par with the others just next year for some vehicle formats and just a couple more years for the rest.
Given all that, is there ANY doubt about which technology is the future is because people just don't understand technology and miss the impact pure electric cars are going to have in the next five years. In ten years, YOU will be driving an electric. Make the numbers and see there's little reason to doubt about it.

[herby67]

Simpel analysis

Of all those technologies one of them is:
1) the cheapest to build a vehicle for
2) The most economically and energetically efficient
3) The most environmentally friendly
4) The simplest.
5) The most reliable
6) The most fun to drive given its power characteristics
7) The one that's improving faster each year
8) The one that has more potential for improvement in performance, reliablility and building and operational cost (already better than the others in most of those aspects).

It only has one disadvantage (range) and it is closing fast, expected to be on par with the others just next year for some vehicle formats and just a couple more years for the rest.
Given all that, is there ANY doubt about which technology is the future is because people just don't understand technology and miss the impact pure electric cars are going to have in the next five years. In ten years, YOU will be driving an electric. Make the numbers and see there's little reason to doubt about it.

[herby67]

It is

THere are prototypes that use compressed air for energy storage, but just for braking regeneration. To get the energy to run a car for just a few miles would require compression beyond what's physically possible (you can't compress a gas indefinitely, at some point it becomes an incompressible liquid or solid).

[herby67]

It is

THere are prototypes that use compressed air for energy storage, but just for braking regeneration. To get the energy to run a car for just a few miles would require compression beyond what's physically possible (you can't compress a gas indefinitely, at some point it becomes an incompressible liquid or solid).

[darix2005]

perfect

thats coool
---
http://mortgage.emigrantas.com - all about mortgages

[darix2005]

perfect

thats coool
---
http://mortgage.emigrantas.com - all about mortgages

[Fromthesmoke]

Pollution

The real issue is pollution.
So make it expensive to pollute, world wide. This way people will choose the right alternatives and industry will give it to them.

[Fromthesmoke]

Pollution

The real issue is pollution.
So make it expensive to pollute, world wide. This way people will choose the right alternatives and industry will give it to them.

[reagan0]

Another alternative: Bio-butanol

Butanol is another alcohol, but one that can be used in existing gasoline-powered engines, without expensive modifications that are necessary to run ethanol. Ethanol is corrosive and will destroy most existing equipment meant to store and transport gasoline, including your car's fuel tank and fuel lines. Butanol, on the other hand, can be used in Granny's 1959 Buick Invicta.

Using new anaerobic production methods, the same feedstock used for ethanol production is available, as well as just about any vegetable matter you can imagine -- including the poo variety. With new methods of deriving bio-butanol, the cost-per-gallon could be as low as $1.35.

In addition to the benefits of being usable in existing gasoline powered vehicles, and being able to utilize existing gasoline distribution systems, there are other bonuses: much lower CO2 emissions than gasoline, the virtual elimination of NOx and SOx and carbon monoxide emissions, and reduction of hydrocarbon emissions by nearly 95%; your vehicle's range-per-tank will not be severely impacted, since the energy output of butanol is closer to that of gasoline -- in fact, some have reported better MPG with butanol; the new process for creating butanol from biomass also produces hydrogen as a byproduct; and the waste byproducts can be used for agricultural feedstock or for fertilizer.

BTW, for those out there who would reply that butanol stinks: it doesn't. Butyric acid stinks, and is part of the old method of producing butanol. The new method doesn't involve butyric acid -- and the final product, butanol, smells sweet.

www.butanol.com

[reagan0]

Another alternative: Bio-butanol

Butanol is another alcohol, but one that can be used in existing gasoline-powered engines, without expensive modifications that are necessary to run ethanol. Ethanol is corrosive and will destroy most existing equipment meant to store and transport gasoline, including your car's fuel tank and fuel lines. Butanol, on the other hand, can be used in Granny's 1959 Buick Invicta.

Using new anaerobic production methods, the same feedstock used for ethanol production is available, as well as just about any vegetable matter you can imagine -- including the poo variety. With new methods of deriving bio-butanol, the cost-per-gallon could be as low as $1.35.

In addition to the benefits of being usable in existing gasoline powered vehicles, and being able to utilize existing gasoline distribution systems, there are other bonuses: much lower CO2 emissions than gasoline, the virtual elimination of NOx and SOx and carbon monoxide emissions, and reduction of hydrocarbon emissions by nearly 95%; your vehicle's range-per-tank will not be severely impacted, since the energy output of butanol is closer to that of gasoline -- in fact, some have reported better MPG with butanol; the new process for creating butanol from biomass also produces hydrogen as a byproduct; and the waste byproducts can be used for agricultural feedstock or for fertilizer.

BTW, for those out there who would reply that butanol stinks: it doesn't. Butyric acid stinks, and is part of the old method of producing butanol. The new method doesn't involve butyric acid -- and the final product, butanol, smells sweet.

www.butanol.com

[convoluted]

Alternative fuels

Have you seen the film "Who Killed the Electric Car?" on Stars Movie Channel? Is this film factual? If it is, why is there no investigation into the fact that the car companies quit building the all electric car? Biofuels and Hydrogen is very expensive and will result in another fuel (like gas) for consumers to purchase. I don't understand.

[convoluted]

Alternative fuels

Have you seen the film "Who Killed the Electric Car?" on Stars Movie Channel? Is this film factual? If it is, why is there no investigation into the fact that the car companies quit building the all electric car? Biofuels and Hydrogen is very expensive and will result in another fuel (like gas) for consumers to purchase. I don't understand.