Comments on: By 2020, kiss the snows of Kilimanjaro goodbye

Carbon dioxide is getting into the atmosphere and making the Earth warmer. Florida is in a lot of trouble.

[benthos72]

Well...

It's kind of hard to debate with someone that is discounting the hard facts. In fact volcanos on the short term cool the climate due to the emission of sulfur and other compunds that increase clouds and decrease solar heating (this has been proven). All estimates of CO2 emissions from fossil fuel combustion and volcanos indicate that fossil fuel emissions exceeds volcanos by over 100x. You can respectfully disagree with facts if you want, this is not what I believe, this is known, published, peer reviewed scientific information. If you want to hold on to conspiracy theories that the liberal left and enviro nuts are making up data, so that the IPCC can gain control over the UN is beyond debatable.

In terms of the petition project, it is based on a paper that was not peer reviewed by people without background in the field. The lead author specializes in protein chemistry. If you actually look at the paper, several lines are drawn across variable data plots, without giving the statistical information that would support those claims. In any peer reviewed scientific paper, if you draw a line across a graph to indicate a trend, you need to have stats to prove you did draw it by eye. All these things coupled with the lack of credentials of the authors, well, it lends it no credibility.

Reducing greenhouse gas emissions will not render our planet lifeless, as you suggest. The planet was full of life before the industrial revolution (Since then CO2 has risen roughly 30%). In truth, it isn't just either its here or not. What is problematic is that our exctaction of carbon out of the ground and transmission to the atmosphere is having consequences on climate. And given best estimates, these changes in climate can have braod implications for everyone. We can burn other fuels that will provide us with computers, cars, etc, maybe slightly more expensive, but as these new sources of energy are developed, the prices will come down (as follows in any market).

Now I know the other anti-climate change argument is get lost until you know for sure. But that is how science works, best estimates on available information. If you go to your doctor with certain symptoms, most of the time he treats you based on probability. Same way most medicines work, drug companies try a bunch of things, and whatever works they use, without fully understnading it. BECAUSE the benefit of doing something (ie making you healty, unless you have a reaction to the drug, or something else is wrong) outweighs the chance of the illness killing you.

The UN is ineffectual, and it is quite obvious that the US is more powerful than it. The IPCC will not control fossil fuels the corporations will. The move to lower CO2 emissions is not based in some greenie movement to destroy the US. That is conservative big oil propoganda, based on a whole other set of scare doom and gloom.

You know, the population of the earth is still expanding in an unsustainable way. The quality of life for most people on the planet has declined in the last 20years (we have been mostly insulated from this). The infant death rate has increased in most countries, and has remained the same in this country, even with all the medical advances. There are signs that if we continue on our current path, things will be bad. But we do need to understand them more, and make good solid decisions.

I think its important in these discussions to realize that most of what we all see in the media is either this or that. And yea, projections on what may happen seem bad, but they are projections, means that they may or may not. The bulk of scientific evidence (from people working in and trained in the field) is that CO2 has increased redically since the industrial revolution. We have extracted from the ground a huge amount of carbon (oil, gas, coal), and put it in the atmosphere. Where else would all this extra CO2 come from?? This is a measurable effect, and if you do the calculations, it fits, how much we burn, how much is taken up by plants, and how much is left. Now coincident with CO2 rise (from fossil fuels) is a change in climate, this is the area that is debatable to some degree. Not whether its changing due to fossil fuel, but by how much.

I leave you with a quote from one of the great liberal thinkers of recent times

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
-Upton Sinclair

[mjd420nova]

I can't believe others fall for this

Mother Nature has you in her sights. The newest
reports are that the ozone hole over the south
pole is closing, meaning the effects of the
green house gases is decreasing. This planet
will take care of any harm we do, she's so
powerful and will if neccesary wipe the slate
clean and start over. We know so little about
this planet, and next to nothing about how the
oceans work, and they cover 70% of the surface.
We have no real guides to point at areas in
our evolution where we created a planet
killing scenaro. The processes that drive this
planet are well observed but little understood.

[joopbraak]

CO2 and hole in the ozon layer ?

Eeehhh, CO2 has little to nothing to do with the hole in the ozon layer, darling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_hole

CFC caused the hole in the ozon layer.

Already now we see the hole in the ozon layer stabilizing, after the use of CFC was greatly reduced.

See here one example of man's influence on the earth.

[emilysartwork]

What is there NOT to believe?

This is the reason humans have decided that they are above
protecting the planet: justifying the results of polluting using the
"little is understood" theory about anything and everything!
Mother Nature will "wipe the slate clean" at our expense.
Is that good news? What group of facts did you gleen that from?
Why is it that some people read FACTS about what is happening
RIGHT NOW and then casually deny them as theories? If a
scientific article is describing a theory-if it is a well written
article-it will usually use that word. When something is actually
occurring or has already happened it can be described as a fact.
As for this planet taking care of the harm that we do, that is a
theory, nothing more because we have already done harm that
we cannot reverse. Nor can Mother Nature, that is, in good
enough time to help us or our children and behond. A good
scientific explanation of this is in the second chapter of the
book, The Diversity of Life by E. Wilson when he describes the
various stages of the earth's history from a geological point of
view defines the earth's impoverishment over five known major
events: "A complete recovery from each of the five major
extinctions required tens of millionsof years. In particular the
Ordovician dip needed 25million years, the Devonian 30million
years, the Permian and Triassic (combined because they were so
close together in time) 100 million years, the Cretaceous 20
million years. These figures should give pause to anyone who
believes that what **** sapiens destroys, Nature will redeem.
Maybe so, but not within any length of time that has meaning
for contemporary humanity."
Its not a matter of "falling" for anything. Its about caring for the
place we live so that our species can go on living here!
You take care of your children and your house? Why not help
Mother Nature out by preserving diversity here on Earth-without
that diversity we won't last long irregardless of how much or
how little we claim to know or observe.

[hermy123]

Hi,
im 14 years old and i believe that global warming is a complete LIE! People r so stupid believeing in the goverment and scientists that just want money!!! I hav worked on my science teacher to believe me and she does now! So i am glad someone believes me and this person who wrote this story. thankyou!