Comments on: A motorcycle that's fast, silent and green

Zero's electric bike takes some getting used to. The benefits? Forty miles on a single charge and no stopping at the pumps.
Photos: Motorbikes go green

[Christopher Hall]

What, exactly, is green about Li-Ion batteries?

Those things are an environmental nightmare when it comes to disposal. You're doing more harm by going "green" than if you would have just stuck to the smaller ICE and focused on better particulate removal and chemical scrubbing.

What I see is the perception of being green. And like so many other things, there's little to no reality to back it up.

[adasha76]

recycle

Batteries can be recycled. In fact Tesla aims to include the cost of recycling in the original price.

Plus over the lifespan of the battery it does not produce any emmissions. The power generation to charge it remains centralised, thus the pollution is easier to control.

[herby67]

Uhhh, no.

Nope, LiIon batteries are NOT an environmental hazard. Lithium is a fairly common element in nature, and LiIon batteries, once disassembled and their components mixed with other elements in normal trash, are no more toxic than most other parts in a vehicle. So please stop spreading FUD. Unless you are being paid by the oil cartels, in that case, good job.

[RedSkelton]

Actually you are both right and wrong. Yes the batteries will be recyclable although today it is not well done. But when the Prius series gets close to expiration you will see more/better. However, lithium when mined is a nightmare, just Google lithium Canada mines, what you will see is a moonscape.

My opinion is that there are always trade offs and like coal mines the localized destruction can be reclaimed if the cost of this is made a mandatory set aside for later expense. In the end, the two biggest environmental issues today are warming, electric helps, and wasteful use of petroleum for consumption when it is a vital ingredient for industrial production, again electric helps. So, an electric bike is great, all I ask is take off the damn governor - full speed ahead.

[richardhaskins]

Electric Vehicles Are Not "Green".

Electricity does not flow from rivers and streams, it is generated by huge, smoke belching, coal fired power plants for the most part. All electric vehicles do is move the smoke to a distant location. It should also be pointed out that ranges for electric vehicles are figured with calculators, not from real world driving. Yes, a rinkydink $7000 excuse for a minibike may go 40 miles, but add hills, stop and go driving and a rider that weighs over 100 pounds and you'll be lucky to get 20 miles. Being stranded in the street on an electric bike is not going to be fun. You'll have to push it until you find someone kind enough to let you plug it in while you wait around for 3 hours. Oh joy.

[jhance11]

Clean coal new tech

True enough electricity must be generated. But do you honestly think the green movement goingon in this country is going to stop with our rides. clean coal, nuclear , wind , solar all will be used all will get better. Take A look at our past to see where todays tech has evolved to. You would'nt happen to be A Republican would you now.

[No_Man]

unlikely

1) I find it hard to believe that they would give a vehicle range without a rider. That would be severely false advertising and could get them sued very quickly.

2) Electric motors aren't effected by stop-and-go driving like gas engines. They don't idle and they draw virtually the same amount of electricity to start/stop as to go.

3) Steep hills are a concern, but from what I understand they have to be really extensive. Tesla warns about trying to take one of their cars into the Rockies, but that's about it. Normal small hills don't impact the range significantly.

4) I doubt the recharge time is 3 hours. If a significantly heavier, significantly longer range car like the Tesla can be charged in 4-5 hours, then I can't imagine this bike would be over 2 hours max. That's just speculation though. Kinda wish the article had said.

[gatornuke]

so go nuclear

You're right that most electricity is produced by polluting means. if all our power came from nuclear and other non-polluting sources, then electric vehicles would be truly green.

[michael kanellos]

Couple of points

1. Charge time is two hours. It's in the article.

2. 40 miles includes a passenger. Obviously this varies with how you drive, but it is also a number that will go up, either through better cells or larger batteries.

3. In general, electrics are cleaner than gas burners in source-to-tailpipe emissions. In rare circumstances-- electricity generated 100 percetn by coal in an old plant--the two will be close, although electricity still wins out. But in most circumstances, it is a lot less.

Coal, by the way, is 52 percent of U.S. electricity. So for "the most part" as you say, it doesn't come from belching factories. Half does.
Thanks for reading.

[tonycecala]

Actually, it does...

It's called hydroelectric power, it also rains electricity every day, it's called solar power.
Our world is changing thanks to innovators, creative thinkers and visionary investors. How are you contributing to the world?

[herby67]

Wrong

First, existing is not green. Anything you do affects the environemnt, so claiming that some technology is not green because it produces some impact in the environment is just plain stupid. Greenness is relative.
In that sense, electric vehicles are way greener than any of the alternatives (probably, though not certainly, other than bicycles). Yes, electricity takes some pollution to generate, but even the dirtiest coal based generators are more efficient in terms of pollution and energy efficiency than the most efficient car. It's a fact, go look up the numbers.
And IC powered cars, in real world conditions, are rarely as efficient as when new. Gas quality, bad tuning, irregular working conditions and wear and tear make them less efficient with time. Not so for electric vehicles, which remain exactly as highly efficient for the duration of the vehicle.
In addition to that, your argument about efficiency being calculated, not measured is precisely an argument in FAVOR of EVs. EVs are very little affected by things like hills (due to regenerative braking and constant engine efficiency), braking, environment or cargo weight. In particular, they are orders of magnitue more constant in efficiency than IC engines, which drop significantly in efficienty in anything other than ideal conditions.
And your point about being stranded on the street with an electric bike is irrelevant. It is exactly the same as being stranded with a gas powered bike.

[scurvy_b]

What's the point?

Why would a city commuter want to plug in his/her bike every night? One of the great things about motorcycles is the lack of necessary maintenance -- just hit it and go. Plugging in a cord every night is this guy for real? Most people who live in urban areas (like SF) and rely on motorcycles as their main mode of transport park on the street, not an indoor garage. This is not feasible with street parking.

What problems are we really solving here? Motorcycles already get 35-40 MPG in the city and 65+ MPG on the highway. All of this just so Canadians can race indoors with really toxic batteries that must be recycled? Solution in search of a problem.

Oh and the reporter obviously doesn't ride. Riders love the engine & exhaust noises that their bikes make. Riders would never consider a silent whirring bike to be a plus.

[hassan_bin_sober]

High cost!

Ridiculous! ... If you want economy, you got to pay for it. If I wanted to spend $7000 to ride to work, I could get a rickshaw and a coolie to pull it for less money!

[jhance11]

Judge slowly

Those who ignore history etc etc. This is the beginning stage. How many times must industry go through this cycle for people to recognize it for what it is. First cars on the road. Expensive, underpowered, high maintenance. Computers, expensive slow took A battery of phd's to run before the microchip. This is the beginning and it will get better from here.

[jhance11]

No Vision

Once again the naysayers speak. The point of it all is to get the majority of vehicle to stop burning gasoline. The improved tech will come from cars and bikes. As far as recharging. There is some merit to what you say, but people have adapted to hard things they will find A way. again I say look to the future. These same bikes like todays computers will one day go 5 times as far 3 times as fast and take no time to recharge. As far as loving the sound and feel of gas motors at somepoint you have to proritise. when gas is at $4 .00 gal or more maybe then you will get it. We do this not for today but for tomorrow. If it calls for sacrafice so be it

[scurvy_b]

gas can go to $10/gallon and I won't care

I'll still only need to fill-up once every two weeks.

This is a problem in search of a solution. Seriously. This company exists so that greenies can buy one, pat themselves on the back about the purchase, then never ride the thing. I bet half the people that buy these bikes don't even ride. I seriously doubt that Larry Page rides at all. I've never seen him at Alice's on the weekend.

The computer and automobile were revolutionary changes that shaped our world, yes. However, the electric motorcycle is not revolutionary -- it's evolutionary (if that). I could see how this would be somewhat, minimally useful for scooters. For a decently powered motorcyle? No way. Who needs a bike that is 3x as fast? Seriously! Most bikes can go 0-60 MPH in the sub 3-4 second range. You don't need to go much faster than that in urban environments.

The money that funded this company would have been better spent finding a cure for cancer....or even a brothel. At least a brothel is of some use to members of society.

[mssoot]

Interesting subject but the photos are horrible

Who ever took the photos should be shot. An interesting article but the photos never even give a decent view of the bike. Cycle Mag Photographers have nothing to worry about :)

[SiXiam]

Gasoline Motorcycles Sales are Gonna Go Up !!!

Think about it: 60mpg for a normal cheap motorcycle. All for under 6K new. This is what people are gonna buy when gas goes to $6/gallon..

[havetosay]

Cost per mile deceptive

They say it costs $.01 per mile. I'm guessing it's more like $.10 per mile. You have to replace the battery in 3 to 5 years (they should list how many charges the battery will take). The battery costs $2,500. Assuming five years, that's $500 per year plus electricity costs. A 60 mpg gasoline engine would likely come in at less than $.10 per mile. So, while it may leave a smaller "carbon footprint", it's not cheap. The silent acceleration would be fun, though. :)

[johnnydfred]

More like over 5 years with these batteries

That's if your lucky enough (or sorry enough) to ride it EVERY
day to work (roughly 250 days/year). These batteries are rated at
over 1000 charges. No lie. A related company using similar nano
technology has rated their batteries for use in a Canadian car at
over 10 years.

And get real: At $3.00 a gallon, 60 miles per gallon already puts
you at .05 cents per mile. Add to that ALL the maintenance
you'll do on that car over 5 years, not to mention the HUGE
footprint of creating gas from oil, transporting it to your station
(more gas spent, eh?), and the pollution even the best hybrids
spew into the air. Buried yet?

Electric vehicles use far less energy than ICEs because PM
electric motors are nearly 300% more efficient than internal
combustion engines, applying force to the pavement with full
torque from a dead-stop. They can use far smaller engines for
the same power effect, and have far fewer parts than ICEs, that
last much, much longer.

And, as soon as we wake up and start using renewable energy
technologies to recharge batteries, instead of dirty oil company
wares, EVs can be completely clean, with recycling of battery and
motor raw materials being the ONLY carbon footprint left.

[farokh]

Electric scooters at a reasonable price

Electric scooters are available at a much lower price from www.e-cycle.ca. In fact some of their products are rated as bicycles and come with pedals.

[Dachi]

Re: Scooters

It is pretty clear that you are affiliated with the site (Mr. Gordon World from BC?), so I will give you a tip: include prices.

The no-name electric Chinese scooters you see for Sale on Ebay are mostly throw away products.

People are so secretive with pricing on them because they are selling them to people that are selling them like some kind of pyramid thing.

You are not manufacturing the bikes and you don't even list the brand because you don't want people to go to the source and undercut you.

Your website inspires all the buyer confidence I get from buying a $400 Rolex from a homeless guy on the street with gold teeth.

[imacpwr]

Orange safety bracelet because of an idling electric motor...?!?!

Only internal combustion engines need to remain idling while a
vehicle is standing still, when an electric powered vehicle is not
moving it's engine stops as well. There is NO need for an electric
engine to be turning while the vehicle is stationary..!!

[MentalNomad]

Idle eletric motors don't spin.

Only internal combustion engines need to rotate when idle to remain responsive. Electric engines stop moving when idle - but they are still responsive. "Idling" means "not performing work," it doesn't mean "spinning."

In other words, in the electric version, nothing is moving, and it seems like it's "off," but if you accidentally tweak the throttle while mounting or dismounting (bear in mind the throttle is also the handlebar), the thing will shoot out from under you.

The safety bracelet is perfectly appropriate.

[johnnydfred]

Reply to Thermo-Man

OK. Entropy and all that. How much farther inside a box can you
crawl, though? Didn't they teach you anything in engineering
school? Where's your creative spirit? Hook up to the Sun, the wind,
a wave, man. There's sooooo much energy in this universe that's
totally wasted (I'm betting your mind can be added to the total)
that harnessing even a small fraction of it converts into more
mechanical energy than we can ever use. Entropy, right? Maybe you
should have become an accountant...

[dondarko]

right on

nuff said

[Mister C]

Please don't misunderstand!

I am as much or more of an environmentalist then nearly anyone I know.

But it is ultimately important to know what you are talking about. Otherwise you are likely to become nothing more than a pawn for those with hidden agendas who would misuse your idealism for their own vested interests.

When you loudly proclaim that which you know very little about, you are likely to be in error and subsequently dismissed by those with real subject matter knowledge.

This is why so many in the environmental movement are blown off as crack-pots and goof-balls. Their lack of understanding hurts rather then helps progressive ideas.

How about a way to capture even half of that lost 70%. Double fuel efficiency in one shot. As Paul McCartney said, "that would be something, it really would be something"!

[no rookie]

Where are the diesel motorcycles?

A bio diesel motorcycle would have excellant low end torque and offer substantial mpg,savings and return green back to a sport or hooby that needs it. Less is more.

[random753]

diesel

There have been a few diesel bikes built but diesels tend to be heavy compared to gasoline because the motor must stand up to the high compression. Motorcycles in developed countries tend to be toys more than basic transportation so most are built to go very fast or attract women. I have got 80mpg with a 200cc gas motorcycle but my 750cc with 4 carbs etc gets only 40mpg and thats typical of whats on the street.

[RedSkelton]

There is a diesel bike being built for the military, Brit & US. It's on a Kawa frame with a diesel engine that can also burn AV gas. It's not bad, 140mpg, high torque, built for bad environments, road and off. Not commercially available yet, filling military orders and insufficient demand to warrant production expansion. Google "HDT Limited Edition KLR"

Diesel bikes will come and it'll be a good mixed use bike with 400 mile range (which is ridiculous for a commercial non-touring bike). But the reason I like the electric, besides wanting to move away from fossils fuels (WHICH ARE ESSENTIAL TO INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION AND SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL TO USE FOR CONSUMPTION). But I really like being able to tool around the farm without any noise other than the chain rattle and the snapping of sticks I fail to avoid. Imagine sneaking up on a white tail, now that is fabulous, eyeball to eyeball in frozen stares at ten feet and then a slight head feint right to send him on his way left.

[aureolin]

Missing the point

... It's not that the motor is idling (you're right that this is just silly), it's that the throttle is still active. Bump that just wrong, and there goes your bike!

[cubicleslave1]

Safety issue...

If I was riding a 2 wheel vehicle going as fast as a car, and going in the flow of motor vehicle traffic, I would want my bike to make lots of noise. Just makes it that much more likely that other drivers will know I'm there. I think just riding a gas motorcycle is a big enough step toward being Earth-friendly. So I would say yes to electric cars and gas powered bikes. But not electric bikes!

[The_Decider]

One of the few reasonable arguments against it

What you say is valid, but it is not always true. The other day a harley was next to me on the freeway, I couldn't hear it at all. Most newer cars block out outside noise remarkably well.

Besides, I see so many people on motorcycles racing down the freeway wearing shorts and a tank top. They might as well not wear a helmet because I doubt they would want to survive an accident after they have been turned into ground meat. The only reason they wear the helmet is because they are forced to by law. I don't think safety is important to them at all.

[l_rasmus]

Quiet Enough to Kill?

Like many of the hybrid and/or electric vehicles, this unit is apparently silent while stopped. Pedestrians, blind and sighted, are wondering who will be the first casualty. The video made it seem like the bike was noisy enough at high speeds, but I am concerned about the lower speeds, which can cause plenty of injuries.

[Millerboy]

Yeah, we should add in a fake engine noise.

Yeah, we should add in a fake engine noise for the kids. I would hate for it to be too quiet that people don't notice it coming. That'd be so dangerous. I wouldn't buy one of these "quiet" electric or hybrid cars. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

[drivin98]

Great bike / Dumb readers

Thanks for a great article about this bike. It's obviously not for everyone but I think it's a great innovation.
I was surprised to read the comments afterwards though. The depth and breadth of ignorance out there is astounding. Of course, there are people out there who have done a little research and that's great.
I would like to let Mister C. know that his alma mater called. They would like their degree back.

[Mister C]

What can I say?

When you think for yourself you raise all sorts of rabble. At least I don't have to rely on common knowledge (almost always wrong) or movies. I can do the figuring all by myself. By the way what degree do you have, marketing? :)

[FRE0]

Motorcycle pollution, noise, & safety

NEW motorcycles now have catalytic converters with oxygen
sensors, just as cars do. In fact, both my Honda VFR and my
Suzuki SV 650 have a catalyc converter and an oxygen sensor.
Therefore, unless the owners tamper with them, motorcycles
probably polute less than cars.

Regarding noise and safety, I seriously question whether loud
pipes on a motorcycle increase safety. If bike owners really
expected that loud pipes would improve safety, they'd aim the
pipes forward to direct the noise where it would be most
effective. Headlight modulators, which flicker the headlight 4
times per second, improve safety by making the bike more
visible yet few bikes have them. Thus, one must wonder just
how many bikers are really concerned with safety.

[zip94]

I've actually ridden the Zero

I see a lot of speculation here and thought I should provide feedback from someone who's actually ridden and seen the zero.

I live in Texas and after much research on-line regarding alternate powered vehicles I came across the Zero. Being a rider and daily motorcycle commuter I was intrigued and made a point to check it out the when I was traveling in California.

PERFORMANCE:
The Zero is not perfect but it is dang close for a 1st generation machine. It is well engineered and well thought out.

The bike excels in its performance and handling. It is well balanced and has impressive braking and suspension.

And... it is an acceleration junkies dream! Electric motors have near instantaneous access to their full powerband. The Zero is the quickest 0 to 40 mph bike I've ever ridden. I nearly looped the bike twice trying to hit wide open throttle from a stand still. Eventually I got the knack.

Several performance characteristics such as throttle responsiveness and top speed are user programmable via a PC. You can really customize the bike to suit your riding preferences. One thing I realized right away was that you could alter the bike to suit a whole family's riding needs without needing multiple bikes.

There's a lot more I could write, but I was blown away by the performance. I race mini gp bikes here in Texas and they are "turtles" off the line compared to the Zero. I'd love to race it against the gas bikes. Even if I had to dial the motor down to a slower top speed I'd still be able to come out of the corners so much faster than anyone else.

I'm convinced that electric is the future and if you appreciate performance you should give it a look. You can Google for their web site.

PRICING
Most new 250 cc dirt bikes have an MSRP (about $6500) a little less than the Zero but there really is a lot less maintenance involved. No carb to worry about getting gummed up. No oil changes. I'm willing to pay a little more just for that. Less wrenching. More riding.

The battery packs are expensive but I believe these are designed so you can replace the individual cells when they go bad rather than chuck the entire battery. And like all things, technology and usage will drive the price of batteries down. And as battery technology improves you'll probably be able to upgrade.

And yes. I am saving up my money for a Zero. ;)

[angelfast]

Some tips...

Here are some tips on how you can buy and have a quality used car, so as you would not be replacing unnecessary parts along the way...Hope, this might help...
Tips & Warning
? As a final precaution, take the car to a mechanic, who should charge a reasonable fee to check over a used car. The seller should agree to this, but may require that you leave a deposit. If the seller won't let you take the car, offer to meet him or her at a mutually convenient garage.
? If you give the seller a deposit in order to take the car to have it checked, make sure to write out an agreement stating that the deposit will be returned immediately if you decide not to buy the car.
If the vehicle's mileage appears unusually low, have a mechanic determine whether someone has tampered with the odometer. If so, the seller must refund any money you have paid and may be liable for punitive damages under federal and state odometer laws?
This is how I acquire my car; I inspected all its auto parts from exterior and interior aspect down to its new vw beetle accessory and other accessories. By doing so, you could be sure of the quality of vehicle you are getting?=)