Comments on: Hummers and muscle cars go green

Diesel's not just for truckers anymore. Converting cars with notoriously bad mileage can make them eco-friendly without compromising performance.
Photos: Muscle cars with a conscience
Video: Souped-up Impala outraces Lamborghini

[lingsun]

It makes no economic sense.

So you'd have to drive 140,000 miles before you break even. That's a dream for a liberal. It doesn't matter if it makes any sense. What matters is if it makes you feel good. You can always brag that you "saved the planet".

[blsith]

Look at the whole picture, not just ROI

You are thinking about it from a ROI point of view. If you are going to get a "new" car and spend $24,000 on it, and need 22mpg anyway.. why not convert your SUV that's getting horrid mileage with a new engine?

Hopefully consumer demand is going to increase for these alternative fuels, and some of the car manufacturers are going to listen. If more "consumer" cars start having these alternatives, and you can stop by your local "BioDiesel" station to get fuel, things will change.

[seeville]

It may not make economic sense...

But neither does driving a Hummer as a freeway daily driver. Factor in the performance improvements and you'll find that any lover of high performance vehicles would love the idea of converting a gasoline engine to diesel.

[kxmmxk]

doesn't have to

Almost all improvements happen because the rich drive the way. It costs money to change things up front. These are people who for a multitude of reasons other than economic want to do this. These are one-off conversions. But it leads the way. As more do this, there will finally be bio fuels at the gas stations. And when there are bio fuels at the gas stations, demand will increase and regular manufacturing lines will do this at normal cost. After all GM does it in Brazil now.

You get better performance, cheaper fuel, green & replenshable fuel, and no longer have to deal with the middle east.

Rich people doing it for what ever reason is the only way things will change unless congress forces the change, which they could do but won't. After all they forced the change to lead-free gas a few decades ago.

[Steve Tsuida]

The Environment IS the economy (stupid).

Economics and ecology are built from the same greek word for
"home", reflecting their interconnectedness.

You can have ecology without economy, but you can't have
economy without ecology. One is built atop the other. Simply
put, you can't breathe cash. All of our economic activity takes
place within the biosphere, and so every action can be measured
as either moving towards preserving the biosphere (sustaining
or expanding economic potential), or towards degrading it
(reducing economic potential). Every CF light bulb, every diesel
conversion, every minute efficiency gain makes economic sense.

On the other hand, what you're suggesting -- sacrificing
economic potential for short term cashflow makes no 'economic
sense'.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Toyota Prius is in the same situation

You need to own a Prius ten years before you even break even in gas savings compared to an equivalent gas model Toyota of similar capacity.

Since most car owners sell their cars every 3-5 years, then the profits are all on the OEM's side. Will the Prius even survive that long? They are getting older now and the battery replacement cost is $2500-$3000, which is a bit high, but they are very limited production so I can understand that. That's another big hit on the pocketbook for an older car down the road.

I'm hoping the GM Volt gets produced. A car that can run purely on electric and then go to gas only as needed with a range of 640 miles would go a long ways towards helping out our ecology.

Plus it looks cool. :)

[xcopy]

Dream for a liberal???

Oy!! Is good gas mileage a liberal commie plot???

Did you get your Christmas card from Dick Cheney and the ultra-conservative right-wing Nazi oil companies yet?

LOL.. Too much...

[KSC519]

Balance

The idea here is not an immediate economic payback. Reducing the environmental impact of the vehicles we drive is equally if not more important. As well as reducing our dependancy on oil. There is no one magic technology that will save the planet and/or your pocketbook. Adopting and combining multiple technologies is a good step towards securing a future that will be both economically and environmentally sound.

[skrubol]

Something seems off

First of all, the H1 is only available with a diesel stock. Secondly, the numbers seem to be rather exaggerated. Diesels typically get about 25% better gas mileage, not 120-340% better as stated for the H2 conversion. And by doubling the horsepower on top of that, I'm sure the gas mileage would take a hit (especially if you actually use that 650 HP.)

[HyVoltage]

Something seems off

I agree. It don't add up.

[fcekuahd]

Yeah, I agree. This has been seriously exaggerated

I would like to see some independent testing to confirm HP, torque, and fuel economy. And I'd like to know how he calculated the "equivalent" fuel economy.

Either way, it's really a joke to call this a "green" car. None of these technologies are really "green" unless we significantly improve energy efficiency.

[Hi)a(k]

Not so good

At all natural resources aren't eternal. So mankind have to discover new engines and fuel. But biodiesel not such a good alternative. It has some asvantages but it is still a internal-combustion engine and can cause damage to environment. Maybe it's just intermediate step to new engine for all vehicles.

[p40tomahawk]

So What

What does having an Impala beat a Lamborghini have to do with anything? I could fuel an Impala with alcohol made from my leftover cereal milk, and it would go even faster. I'm still polluting the environment when I make the stuff, because I'm using energy derived from coal/oil/whatever to make the alcohol, and then I'm releasing massive amounts of carbon as I burn it.

By the way, fulfilling the world's oil needs through biofuels as they are **today** would require more agricultural landmass than three entire Earth's. Doesn't work.

[jogiba]

HP jumps from 325 to 650

That must be a typo. How do you double MPG with twice the HP ? It takes more fuel to make more HP not less. I could see getting 30% better mpg with a diesel conversion but to take out a V8 gas engine and install a V8 diesel for $24,000 to save money does not make sense.

[HyVoltage]

HP jumps from 325 to 650

I agree. Somethin' doesn't add up.

[HyVoltage]

HP jumps from 325 to 650

I agree. Somethin' doesn't add up.

[Vegaman_Dan]

It's possible

High compression engines with diesel can do this quite easily and have been doing it for nearly a century. Trucks use diesel for a reason over unleaded fuels as their choice of petrol.

So far it hasn't been economical in passenger cars, but times are changing.

[Vegaman_Dan]

It's possible

High compression engines with diesel can do this quite easily and have been doing it for nearly a century. Trucks use diesel for a reason over unleaded fuels as their choice of petrol.

So far it hasn't been economical in passenger cars, but times are changing.

[twotall610]

Another carsalesman

I don't trust carsalesman. They only tell you the good and hide the
bad. It is just a marketing ploy. The word for autos these days is
"Green". Mine is more "Greener" than yours. When they develope a
vehicle that doesn't emit any type of pollution and doesn't require
plugging it into a home outlet, then it will truly be "Green". Until
then, stop using the word "Green".

[dondarko]

tesla...

was around for quite a while. Purely an electrical car, it gets a range of 200 miles on a single charge, and it goes 0-60 in 4 seconds. www.teslamotors.com

[Zupek]

Water is better and I can do it

You support me(aka pay for my house, food, dog, etc) and i'll GIVE everyone a technology that can run on today's cars and be 100% renewable with better power then bio-diesel(which is only torque anyways). The largest reason nobody has done it(to the general pulics knowledge) is because a car running on water doesnt benifit the rich, it benefits the world, and we all know the rich don't look out for anybody but themselves. Im not asking for much. Just the time and expensive of living, then i'll give it the technology away for free and help people. Its not as hard as everyone thinks, people just keep making reasons why it shouldnt work, but it would work if someone was willing to do it.

FYI someone created a gas that converts water to hydrogen extremely easily (its a welding gas) and he car was running off of water (video should be on youtube.com). BUT the government bought the guy and his technology and he is installing it in hummers FOR THE ARMY. Its possible, the government just doesnt want it to happen.

[WINDnotOILdotCOM]

re: Water is better and I can do it

In his 2nd paragraph Zupek is probably referring to this
company, altho some of what Zupek says is incorrect. The gov't
did not 'buy' the guy, it's electricity that converts water to a gas
for fuel, and a car can run on water!

the site has lots of videos. i recommend viewing the long one
on the home page under 'Grab the Popcorn'.

visit:
Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc.
"Makers of Aquygen?, a combustible gas made from water that
is a safe, cost-effective, environmentally-friendly alternative to
and enhancer of fossil fuels."
http://hytechapps.com/ .

[treet007]

...At the Expense of Food and Increasing Food Prices

Going biodiesel and other alternate fuel sources are great ideas, but they should not be used at the expense of food production. Water is a scarce commodity, and there are a lot of people in world in poverty and starvation. It is absolutely stupid to use these resources as alternate fuels just so that you can maintain your "fun" factor in the Hummers and muscle cars.

Haven't you noticed that once the President of the USA promotes alternate fuels, the food prices went up because the corn used to feed the livestock for food is being diverted for fuel? Once demand increases for these alternate fuels, you think the food prices won't continue to increase?

[dean265]

food

over hear down under
we have lots of prime farm land that just runs stock
becase the low price of grain
and the yanks that undercut us
some of our farmers just wont grow it
i have frends who have 1000 plus acrs who just run stock becase thay cant aford the price of fule
to put a crop in
when the price comes up and fule down
just whach us feed the world
thats if we ever get rain
tell me what do us farmers pay per gal for desiel
we pay $6.30 per gal
hell we got farmers who just grow canola for thair fule for the year and whats over gets sold to pay the rates etc
live stock on thease farms is spending mony

[timinraymond]

Hummers

It seems to me that anyone buying a "Hummer" has a lot more money than intelligence. The "Hummer" is just a ripoff on the HumVee, without the capabilities of the real thing. I'd buy a HumVee, I *laugh* at "Hummers". Luckily, I do not *need* either one, so I won't be buying one. My Suburban burns enough fuel to satisfy my testosterone levels.

[wp enterprises]

not apples to apples

By saying a jump in HP like that they are not compairing apples to apples. they are talking about the baseline 325HP Gasoline hummer motor being swapped out for a turbo charged diesel duramax motor. The horsepower gains are not related to the fact that its running green. These motors would make 650HP all day with convential diesel as well. In fact a gasoline engine with a similar displacement to the duramax they are using, would probably have even more horsepower than the diesel if turbocharged as aggressively, though its not as easy to turbocharge gasoline engines with as much boost as diesels. Also the diesel would still be the winner in torque likely, and as corky bell says "Rule : Torque makes fun"

[wp enterprises]

blah blah blah

blah blah blah, government conspiracy this and that

The real problem is there is no mainstream efficent way to seperate hydrogen that easily. Yes welding gas can run a car, but its $60 to fill a bottle, and it wouldn't get you as far as $30 in gasoline even at the prices of today. Plus where did that bottle of hydrogen come from? It takes a lot of heat energy to seperate hydrogen. If we all ran cars on hydrogen we would require many many many new nuclear plants to provide us with the power to make all the hydrogen that would be required, and does that really help anything at all? Maybe one day someone will come up with a breakthrough easy way to seperate hydrogen, until then, it just doesn't make sense.

[dean265]

water i can do it better contact me

iam from the central west australia
in the drout i have lost my job
thair are a lot of people hearting now
in my spair time i have been working with hydroger
i want to give it to the people free
iam looking for idears or hiden secrets
if you have any thing to add or want info
my info plans and or the stuff i receve are for sail at any price i want to help mother eath and the little man
please email me
[e-mail]

[grandma2b]

I would appreciate it if you would send me information as to how to actually contact John. Thank you, Jamie.