Comments on: Zap teams with Lotus for electric sports car

What do you get when you combine a Lotus concept car with a sports car's electric motor? An electric vehicle that packs a punch.

[herby67]

Unfair comparison

Comparing the Tesla, a car that exists today and it's planned for delivery to customers in a matter of weeks, with a prototype that's scheduled for delivery in two years, is not very reasonable. That might be doable with gas powered cars, since they change little from one year to the next. But it is expected that, by late 2008 or early 2009 the Tesla will extend its range significantly, thanks to new battery technologies (likely a relatively simple upgrade to existing vehicles). That might put the Tesla's range close to the one for the Zap vehicle (and above most gas and diesel powered cars).

[TV James]

How much to make it look good?

$60k for that? Looks like someone mated a Pacer and a Matrix.

[zboot]

Unfair. . obviously you didn't think this through

So, you are seriously making the argument that in the span of two years, the technology used by the Tesla will improve significantly while that used by the Zap car will be stagnant?

[blurble]

Major malfunction

What the hell is wrong with their heads? These cars are supposed to be marketed for the COMMON person. Not Porsche owners. (Audi owner myself)

Is this how we're going to save the environment, by having British companies covet the US auto industry stereotype that cars need MORE POWERRRR? It's inefficient waste!

How bout this. Halve the damn horsepower and top speed (most people don't know how to handle a car anyway at that speed), and sell the fricken thing for $30,000. Which is still too much.

Idiots.

[drew494949]

get an education, brand building

No, they're building a brand with expensive vehicles designed to last with novelty factor, which means they can have larger margins.

Only then will it be time to team up (or get bought out by) a larger manufacturer who can absorb the large assembly line costs.

[TradeHound]

I agree

Just make a practical car so many people can buy it and gas stations will start installing recharge stations. Aren't electric motors and batteries pretty simple? Can't they make something for less than $10k? $60k is too much and $100k is just insulting! Actually, $60k is insulting too.

You are right, I don't need to go 0-60 in 4 seconds, I just want to go 70 mph for 100 miles on a 15 minute charge. I would even pay $20k. Is that possible?

[Hernys]

Thinking from the last century

You are thinking based on internal combustion engined cars paradygms, where power leads cost and is related to efficiency. Not so with electric cars and if you think this through you'll see they are doing what's right at the moment.
One of the bid differences between electric cars and IC cars is that power is irrelevant cost and efficiency wise. You could halve the power and end up with a car that costs 2% less and has about the same range.
An electric cars power is limited mostly by the battery power output. As the battery size is normally not dictated by this but by energy storage, reducing the power needed does not affect the battery size.
What they are doing is speccing the battery based on range and vehicle weight/size. Then, given the power output of the battery they spec the engine and other parts. They could use a lower size/power motor, but nothing would be gained.
They are doing what's right for today. If they could do a $10 car with a thousand mile range, they would, but in a nascent field you do what it first become possible. Given the layout/weight/size/range constrains, a sports car (which has the lowest possible useful load to overall weight ratio) is simply possible earlier than a compact or a sedan. And a sports car has better margins, which is important for an emerging market with so many variables. They'll focus on those when they become possible.

[theBike45]

You're Confused

The battery pack that Zap is using has nothing to do with Altair's NanoSafe, which is used exclusively by Phoenix Motorcars. That should have told you that
Zap couldn't possibly be using NanoSafes, although there were plenty of other reasons as well - Zap explicitly stated that the results were due to a computer software battery management system (vaguely similar to Tesla's) built by a Danish company. And the batteries were also explicitly
described as li ion batteries, which Altair NanoSafes most definitely are not. Before speculating on something, a little knowledge would
go a long way. Also, the "electric sports car"
is anything but a sports car.

[michael kanellos]

Altair

Actually, Schneider said later it is one of the batteries they are looking at.

[michael kanellos]

Altair

Actually, Schneider said later it is one of the batteries they are looking at.

[dr19075]

Doesn't mean it's not from Altair

Although I doubt the batteries are from Altair just because of the lack of Altair press releases, there is the possibility that these batteries come from ABAT with Altair technology, instead of from Altair directly, isn't there? I'm assuming the Phoenix-Altair deal only excludes the batteries specifically manufactured by Altair. ZAP has done some research with ABAT in the recent past, and ABAT had an agreement with Altair at about the same time about incorporating the Altair tech into ABAT batteries. I haven't heard anything about either of those partnerships ever since (either it came to nothing or it has been secretive... and still is)

Also, I would still consider Altair's batteries Lithium-Ion, just with an important mod. Even Phoenix Motorcars calls these Lithium Ion in multiple press releases.

[zboot]

British companies - American stereotypes

Obviously, you don't know the nationality of ZAP or the types of cars that Lotus makes. Your comment is pretty foolish.

[El Kabong]

Why the angst?

So many of the folks who respond to this type of story sound so very angry.
I'm just pickled tink that SOMEBODY is doing something about moving us into the future.
I just wonder, if half the people who paid $60,000 or more for autos in the past two years, had been able to buy electrics like the one described in this article, instead of the smokin', chokin' gas guzzlers they did buy, what would be the price of gas today?
I realize that the electricity to charge the battery may come from fossil fuels but much of it doesn't and that could make a difference.
Regardless, I hope that someday, in the near future, my children will be able to breath something other than soot from infernal combustion engines, and that we'll be able to tell Hugo Chavez and Islamic fanatics to "take a hike!"
Don't get mad at the people who are trying to accomplish that, regardless of their motives.

[TradeHound]

I don't need a super fast car

I want an electric car with a long range and a short recharge time and a reasonable price. I don't need to go 0-60 in 4 seconds. I would buy a car that goes 70 mph for 100 miles on a 15 minute charge. Oh and less than $20k. If it goes 0-60 in 8 or 10 or 12 seconds, fine. Is this impossible?

This article says "..could be recharged in about 10 minutes, faster than other cars."
How ambiguous! Is it 10 minutes or just 10 minutes faster than other cars???

This car sounds promising, except $60k is still too much for an electric car. $100k is just insulting.

People try to make transportation a race: Hey I didn't sign on to risk my life in a road race with you, I'm just trying to get to work.

[Hernys]

Electric technology

You don't need a fast car. But with electric vehicles that comes basically for free, as the electric motors are relatively cheap, and their power output is not related to efficiency, and the price is relatively flat.
Would you rather get a fast car for 60K or a slow car for 59K, all other things being equal?

[b3baby]

Altair and Phoenix/Zap

I know that the exclusivity with phoenix is for vehicles under 6000 pounds. There might be an agreement between Phoenix and Zap targeting very different customers. Altair and phoenix are notoriously quiet with the updates on this sort of thing. Very frustrating, given the potential of the battery. No matter how low oil gets, its hard to compete with the equivilant of a tank for 3 bucks. Do you (author) know of any competing technologies out there that perform similar to the Nanosafe?

[rosie jaeger]

hey

this is a nice story. you took my idea

[rosie jaeger]

hey

this is a nice story. you took my idea

[theBike45]

Batteries will not be Altair

With a range of 350 miles, the battery pack won't
likely contain any Altair Nanosafes, which weigh around 30 pounds per kWhr. That would indicate a battery pack weight of over 2500 pounds! The car would be a porker. Also, if they were Altairs, the news would have been released by Altair. And Phoenix has exclusive use of Altairs for EVs, so ZAP couldn't buy them even if they wanted to. They also are mentioning a battery pack control unit, which Altair batteries do not require.
Whoever suggested Altairs obviously is a real neophyte in the auto battery world.

[HalFisher]

Toshiba to market carbon nanotube lithium in 2008

Toshiba will be producing a carbon nanotube lithium in the first part of 2008. It will be marketed as Super Charge. I could not get any more information from them (size/price/availablity). They are already over a year late (initially projected to be sold end of 2006) but marketing and sales manager in Toshiba confirmed new release deadline.

[HalFisher]

Toshiba Super Charge Lithium-ion

There are others but Toshiba will be producing nanotube lithium-ion in 2008. Here is the original article from 3/2005: http://www.physorg.com/preview3539.html