Comments on: Shell calls food crop biofuels 'morally inappropriate'

World's top marketer of biofuels says turning food into fuel--such as ethanol--is wrong as long as people are starving.

[dmm]

Oil from Food Program

I'd like to see more research directed at turning RANDOM mixtures of food (i.e., garbage) into fuel. It is stupid, for a variety of reasons, to grow corn or wheat specifically for fuel production. However, assorted food waste is generated in massive amounts during the normal course of life. Presently, this goes into landfills and decays into methane (a powerful greenhouse-effect gas). If cities collected garbage separately from trash and recyclables (some already do), they could convert it to fuel instead, and the leftovers would be fertilizer. This would be a win-win-win situation.

We already have a prototype of a system to turn random human food into energy, and it has been studied in great detail. It's called the human digestive system. So we don't need many breakthroughs in basic science to succeed. We mostly need some clever reverse-engineering. OK, that's an oversimplification, but my point is, we're not talking about controlled nuclear fusion here.

[dmm]

Oil from Food Program

I'd like to see more research directed at turning RANDOM mixtures of food (i.e., garbage) into fuel. It is stupid, for a variety of reasons, to grow corn or wheat specifically for fuel production. However, assorted food waste is generated in massive amounts during the normal course of life. Presently, this goes into landfills and decays into methane (a powerful greenhouse-effect gas). If cities collected garbage separately from trash and recyclables (some already do), they could convert it to fuel instead, and the leftovers would be fertilizer. This would be a win-win-win situation.

We already have a prototype of a system to turn random human food into energy, and it has been studied in great detail. It's called the human digestive system. So we don't need many breakthroughs in basic science to succeed. We mostly need some clever reverse-engineering. OK, that's an oversimplification, but my point is, we're not talking about controlled nuclear fusion here.

[blish]

starvation is not because of too little food...

it's a political tool - there is enough food on the planet available everywhere. to goverments, that is.

[blish]

starvation is not because of too little food...

it's a political tool - there is enough food on the planet available everywhere. to goverments, that is.

Trillion $ a year arms race

There is a world wide trillion dollar a year arms race going on and it is immoral to make fuel from foods?

While I agree that feeding people is important and research into switchgrass etc is great lets keep things in perspective here.

The real immoral issue is spending a trillion dollars a year to kill each other, I mean protect ourselves from each other, when a small fraction of that would provide clean water, food and shelter to everyone!

Just my 2 cents worth.

Trillion $ a year arms race

There is a world wide trillion dollar a year arms race going on and it is immoral to make fuel from foods?

While I agree that feeding people is important and research into switchgrass etc is great lets keep things in perspective here.

The real immoral issue is spending a trillion dollars a year to kill each other, I mean protect ourselves from each other, when a small fraction of that would provide clean water, food and shelter to everyone!

Just my 2 cents worth.

[kidboodah]

Why stop with biofuels?

Please. By this argument, using paper is "morally inappropriate" when there are people in the world without a house to live in.

[VI Joker]

Won't work

Most houses are not made of really wood, so the its unlikely that this approach would work. However, when you have as much money as the major oil companies you can afford to engage in crazy arguements. Now if they start saying that its "morraly inappropriate" to use water for anything other then drinking, I will be worried.

[kidboodah]

Why stop with biofuels?

Please. By this argument, using paper is "morally inappropriate" when there are people in the world without a house to live in.

[VI Joker]

Won't work

Most houses are not made of really wood, so the its unlikely that this approach would work. However, when you have as much money as the major oil companies you can afford to engage in crazy arguements. Now if they start saying that its "morraly inappropriate" to use water for anything other then drinking, I will be worried.

[gdmellott]

How do we determine the balance?

The way it looks to me, the best way to solve the confusion would be to have two types of money, at least in an open assesting or accounting sense.
The first being for the primary resource material that is needed to function, which one cannot work in a debt, or negative sense. And ideally it would be distributed evenly per person. Thought given all the complexity and twists that reality throws at things it will likley ever only be a moral anchor to draw ourselves toward.
The type of fund is for the processes that cultivate the resources into something more useful. That form can function in an IOU realm much more without creating insurmountable failure, quite deeply if properly managed. [One might note that the US Federal Reserve Note is an IOU to the Federal Reserve Bank]
Noting the resources better can help people determine more precisely just what standard of living is possible resource wise. Admittedly, the cultivation funds would likely require that there be an assessing process that determines the present value of the cultivating done, so that sufficient funds can be in the system to let it function in the positive realm. And possibly also determine the value of the cultivation done up to that point more individually.

In any case, the system would be much more flexible and would tend to favor the cultivation and refinement of individuals before the cultivation of big business; as they would need to round up a balance resource funds for the materials they cultivate, and the more educated people were the more easily all could grow in a sustainable way.

[gdmellott]

How do we determine the balance?

The way it looks to me, the best way to solve the confusion would be to have two types of money, at least in an open assesting or accounting sense.
The first being for the primary resource material that is needed to function, which one cannot work in a debt, or negative sense. And ideally it would be distributed evenly per person. Thought given all the complexity and twists that reality throws at things it will likley ever only be a moral anchor to draw ourselves toward.
The type of fund is for the processes that cultivate the resources into something more useful. That form can function in an IOU realm much more without creating insurmountable failure, quite deeply if properly managed. [One might note that the US Federal Reserve Note is an IOU to the Federal Reserve Bank]
Noting the resources better can help people determine more precisely just what standard of living is possible resource wise. Admittedly, the cultivation funds would likely require that there be an assessing process that determines the present value of the cultivating done, so that sufficient funds can be in the system to let it function in the positive realm. And possibly also determine the value of the cultivation done up to that point more individually.

In any case, the system would be much more flexible and would tend to favor the cultivation and refinement of individuals before the cultivation of big business; as they would need to round up a balance resource funds for the materials they cultivate, and the more educated people were the more easily all could grow in a sustainable way.

[btl-jooz]

Of COUR$E Big Oil is going to fight biofuels

If they were even half as smart as they THINK they are they'd go into competition with just the type of 'research' Shell is CLAIMING to be doing!!!!!

If I were to buy stock, it would be in the products that can produce biofuels. Biofuels are the ca$h cow of the future!!!

I applaud ANY country that sticks BOTH their middle fingers up at OPEC and becomes self-sufficient with cars like GM is producing in South AMERICA that can run on either biofuel alone, a mixture of gas and biofuel, or gas alone depending upon where the driver is and how much money they have on them at the time said vehicle needs fuel.

[btl-jooz]

Of COUR$E Big Oil is going to fight biofuels

If they were even half as smart as they THINK they are they'd go into competition with just the type of 'research' Shell is CLAIMING to be doing!!!!!

If I were to buy stock, it would be in the products that can produce biofuels. Biofuels are the ca$h cow of the future!!!

I applaud ANY country that sticks BOTH their middle fingers up at OPEC and becomes self-sufficient with cars like GM is producing in South AMERICA that can run on either biofuel alone, a mixture of gas and biofuel, or gas alone depending upon where the driver is and how much money they have on them at the time said vehicle needs fuel.

[K.P.C.]

More than enough food.

There is more than enough food grown world wide to feed the
planet. It's more a matter of logistics in some cases and political
upheaval in others. Food donated to North Korea doesn't reach
the general population. First it feeds the politicos and the
military and most of what's left over hits the black market. Same
thing happens in most nations where the population is starving.
Food producing governments worldwide spend billions of dollars
yearly to pay farmers NOT to grow crops as a way to stabalize
prices so that the other farmers don't go bankrupt.

As for biofuels or fossil fuels both are still major pollutants. You
want to really stick it in the eye big oil as well as OPEC while
actually helping the environment? Put maximum effort into
perfecting the hydrogen fuel cell maybe even to the point where
you don't need hydrogen gas as the catalyst. Just fill your tank
with water, the fuel cell seperates the hydrogen and oxygen then
recombines the 2 producing the energy. Water in water out (as
exhaust).

Maybe wishful thinking and definately years away but the person
or group that finally perfects the process would send Mr. Hans
Shell Oil as well as OPEC into absolute hissy fits.

Just my 2 cents worth - Aloha! =)

[K.P.C.]

More than enough food.

There is more than enough food grown world wide to feed the
planet. It's more a matter of logistics in some cases and political
upheaval in others. Food donated to North Korea doesn't reach
the general population. First it feeds the politicos and the
military and most of what's left over hits the black market. Same
thing happens in most nations where the population is starving.
Food producing governments worldwide spend billions of dollars
yearly to pay farmers NOT to grow crops as a way to stabalize
prices so that the other farmers don't go bankrupt.

As for biofuels or fossil fuels both are still major pollutants. You
want to really stick it in the eye big oil as well as OPEC while
actually helping the environment? Put maximum effort into
perfecting the hydrogen fuel cell maybe even to the point where
you don't need hydrogen gas as the catalyst. Just fill your tank
with water, the fuel cell seperates the hydrogen and oxygen then
recombines the 2 producing the energy. Water in water out (as
exhaust).

Maybe wishful thinking and definately years away but the person
or group that finally perfects the process would send Mr. Hans
Shell Oil as well as OPEC into absolute hissy fits.

Just my 2 cents worth - Aloha! =)

[K.P.C.]

Moer tha enough food.

(If this is a repeat post I apologize. My earlier post doesn't seem
to have gone through)

There is more than enough food grown world wide to feed the
planet. It's more a matter of logistics in some cases and political
upheaval in others. Food donated to North Korea doesn't reach
the general population. First it feeds the politicos and the
military and most of what's left over hits the black market. Same
thing happens in most nations where the population is starving.

Food producing governments worldwide spend billions of dollars
yearly to pay farmers NOT to grow crops as a way to stabalize
prices so that the other farmers don't go bankrupt.

As for biofuels or fossil fuels both are still major pollutants. You
want to really stick it in the eye big oil as well as OPEC while
actually helping the environment? Put maximum effort into
perfecting the hydrogen fuel cell maybe even to the point where
you don't need hydrogen gas as the catalyst. Just fill your tank
with water, the fuel cell seperates the hydrogen and oxygen then
recombines the 2 producing the energy. Water in water out (as
exhaust).

Maybe wishful thinking and definately years away but the person
or group that finally perfects the process would send Mr. Hans
Shell Oil as well as OPEC into absolute hissy fits.

Just my 2 cents worth - Aloha! =)

[K.P.C.]

Moer tha enough food.

(If this is a repeat post I apologize. My earlier post doesn't seem
to have gone through)

There is more than enough food grown world wide to feed the
planet. It's more a matter of logistics in some cases and political
upheaval in others. Food donated to North Korea doesn't reach
the general population. First it feeds the politicos and the
military and most of what's left over hits the black market. Same
thing happens in most nations where the population is starving.

Food producing governments worldwide spend billions of dollars
yearly to pay farmers NOT to grow crops as a way to stabalize
prices so that the other farmers don't go bankrupt.

As for biofuels or fossil fuels both are still major pollutants. You
want to really stick it in the eye big oil as well as OPEC while
actually helping the environment? Put maximum effort into
perfecting the hydrogen fuel cell maybe even to the point where
you don't need hydrogen gas as the catalyst. Just fill your tank
with water, the fuel cell seperates the hydrogen and oxygen then
recombines the 2 producing the energy. Water in water out (as
exhaust).

Maybe wishful thinking and definately years away but the person
or group that finally perfects the process would send Mr. Hans
Shell Oil as well as OPEC into absolute hissy fits.

Just my 2 cents worth - Aloha! =)

[bobj123]

Why not...

...just use all of these organic foods that are rejected by countries mostly those in need and use them for this form of fuel?

After all that would not be using food for energy, when no one essentially out of the North America wants to deal with it.

[bobj123]

Why not...

...just use all of these organic foods that are rejected by countries mostly those in need and use them for this form of fuel?

After all that would not be using food for energy, when no one essentially out of the North America wants to deal with it.