Comments on: IBM bringing broadband over power line to rural America

Company signs $9.6 million contract with International Broadband Electric Communications in aim to bring high-speed Internet access to rural communities.

[PeterPiperPicked]

Why are a handful of hobbyists using an obsolete and outdated form of communication being allowed to block technology that could benefit a large portion of the populace. Last time I checked we were supposed to be living in a Democracy.

Peter,

We are a democracy. That's why our government allows you to get an amateur radio license, just as 600,000 or so Americans have done, Then you can help out in emergencies like Katrina. You can help people. This only works if radios work. BPL can interfere with not only amateur radio but other emergency services. I would be happy to help you get your license and contribute to the betterment of America.

[fritz269]

This "outdated" form of communication is one of the more reliable forms of communications in an emergency. Thanks to Amature radio, we have alot of the more common services we have today.

[N2STU]

As said ham operators are more than just a handful and are key to many disaster recovery efforts. Even during events like the NY City Marathon there are 400 to 500 hams at posts all day to assist, as no one does communications better. A lot of our astronauts are hams and talk to school children around the world over the ham frequencies from the shuttle to show those young minds what communications are all about. Many of us are trained weather spotters for the national weather service with direct communication links to them to let them know where storms are, where flood waters have broken through etc when there is no power, phone service or internet. The hobby is by no means obsolete or outdated as just the opposite is true. The internet and cell phone technology started from the ham community. Some BPL companies needlessly send signals out that completely wipe out ham frequencies unnecessarily, that is what we are against. These signals also knock out other public radio services like in my area the county water authority, town radios and even military communications but not everyone is aware of what is being proposed and may only wake up when these systems are put into use and find that their radios are rendered useless. Who do you think will pay the price for this blunder if it happens? Lets all work together to make sure if these systems are used they are designed. properly.

By the way, the BPL people are misinforming you when they say they are targeting the rural areas, how is that for a fact! BPL signals don't travel far down the electric power lines before losing strength needing to be amplified or what we call repeated, received and retransmitted out at full strength so as not to become so weak they won't reach you at a usable level.. The repeaters require equipment to be installed at regular intervals to transmit the signals over a long distance. Just how many of these repeaters do you think someone is going to buy to sell you service at $10-$20 a month if you are the only user out there for miles? If they get these systems to work correctly they will be targeting the cities where we already have three or more choices of better quality service from varied providers.

A NY Ham just telling it like it is.

[celticbrewer]

I was thinking the same thing, PPP. Ham Radio operators can perform pretty much the same thing over the internet if they allowed BPL to come into the area.

[JWBRO]

Amateur radio operators provide communications in emergencies when normal communications don't work. Hurricanes, tornadoes, forest fires, and terrorist attacks often cause damage to telephone, radio, cellphone systems, and those that aren't damaged often stop working because of power failures.

There's another MAJOR problem with BPL -- it wipes virtually out ALL shortwave services, including international broadcasting and various communications circuits to remote areas. BPL signals are like any other radio signals -- they propagate around the world, and are heard as noise that interferes with communications. I'm an Electrical Engineer by training, and was first licensed as a broadcast engineer (First Class Radiotelephone) in 1959, and have worked as an engineer for several major broadcasters. I'm currently chair of the Technical Committee of the Audio Engineering Society on EMC (Electromagnetic Compatibility), which is the science of how various technical systems must coexist with each other. BPL is, by its nature, incompatible with other uses of the radio spectrum. It's like that thoughtless kid driving through your neighborhood with his thousand watt audio system blaring in his car while you're trying to sleep.

There are other much better ways to provide internet to remote areas. BPL has been around for about five years, and it has been unsuccessful both because of the interference issues and because it is not financially viable.

Jim Brown
Santa Cruz, CA

[j43050]

The United States is not a Democracy.

[PeterPiperPicked]

Thanks, but I don't need a license, but I am familiar with radio technology, I with all the frequencies and types of modulation available to you guys, I find it difficult to believe that this techology affects every one of them.

[PeterPiperPicked]

As far as emergencies are concerned, what we need are interoperable networks for emergency personnell so they can talk to each other. I doubt the amatuer radio operators were very helpful during 9/11. Correct me if I am wrong.

[TheGeekReview]

Your Wrong.

http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/WTC.pdf: 56564www.arrl.org/FandES/field/WTC.pdf

[marvin25]

They will not be able to bring broadband to rural America as ATT and Verizon have refuse the bandwidth for my ISP who is adding over 100 megs of requirements a week on the Internet. This way I would say it is meaningless as the fact ATT and Verizon will not supply the bandwidth required as they believe that rural America doesn't need broadband period.

[farkenstein]

Or is it rather that ATT and Verizon and the like are waiting for a government handout to bring broadband to rural America?

[Philip Crosby]

This "handful of hobbyists" has been the source of much-needed communication in disasters when power lines are down and other vital services are disrupted. Many ham radio operators are members of the American Radio Relay League (see: www.arrl.com ) an organization that has served a vital role in disaster relief for 75 years .

There are two sides to this issue, but it seems that the fact that BPL fails when emergency communications are most needed is a compelling argument in favor of ensuring that BPL does not interfere with existing amateur radio service.

Is such a thing possible? Perhaps. Just as cable companies employ filters to deny user access to premium channels, modern techniques such as code orthogonal frequency domain multiplex (COFDM) could be tailored to suit a given area, ensuring that both goals could be met.

[DivineOracle]

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Voyant-International-Corporation-917727.html

These guys are already manufacturing commercial-grade spectrum-sensing white space radio device not just for broadband, but also innovative uses such as long-range radio control of devices and data transmissions.

Think smart traffic signals that's solar-powered with LED signal lights, with software-defined signal processing, video streaming of traffic conditions, image/on-ground traffic sensors, automated with central control and central data processing. ALL WIRELESS and GREEN!

[alaris3k]

the internet shouldn't be allowed to exist because it interferes with my telegraph.

[esjatharvee]

BPL is a broadband noise source fed over unshielded lines. Unshielded lines are electric with the same as antennas and as a result, BPL noise will be broadcast worldwide interfering with anyone using the HF spectrum. Also remember that antennas receive as well as transmit which means that any transmitter can interfere with a BPL service.

When the ARRL tested BPL technologies, they found only one service which did not interfere with HF spectrum and that is one that stayed on very high voltage lines and use the Motorola canopy service to deliver the last mile hop. unfortunately, I don't recall the vendor but you should be able to find it on the ARRL website.

For what it's worth, BPL is not the only source of interference to RF spectrum users. I've been knocked off the air completely because of HDTV plasma sets. It only took two neighbors with plasma sets to completely wipe out the spectrum from 14 MHz up over 100 MHz. Most consumer electronics emits way more noise than they should ever be able to get away with.

[jafco_99]

There already is broadband service for those of us who live in the boonies. I have an account with HughesNet for satellite internet service. It works great even in real snow country like the UP of Michigan. The system will occasionally go out in an very heavy downpour, or when the dish gets iced up (both rare). One needs a clear view of the southern sky in order to see the satellite, and there is a "fair usage" policy that is restrictive on the amount of material one can send or receive (downloading movies is for all intents, impossible). It is also fairly expensive ($59/mo and up depending on your actual service). Speeds are certainly as fast as the range given in this article.

And - it's there. BPL is a pipe dream for the near future, and maybe a lot longer, depending on where one lives. I get both my TV and my internet connections via satellite.

[jawbertsc]

Before you go blasting a good ideal try reading the article all the way through. It sounds like the new technology eases the interference issue. I acknowledge the fact that short wave still has its users but I fail to see where the claims of interference with EMS as an issue since they normally use 800 to 900 MHZ from what I understand. It would be nice to see service go to rural users and i dont see white space radio device as being cost effective. I used wireless internet overseas and it was not that impressive with routines drops and loss of signal.

[DENOBIN]

I agree that BPL should not interfere with short wave or ameteur radio signals. With the advent of Wi-Max, and upcoming white space and 4G services, there is no reason to use unshielded powerlines to transmit internet traffic. The future of the last mile is wireless.

[d0nkey]

BPL is a great service. I dont know how is interferes with radio signals so i wont comment about that. But in a lot of rural areas, other forms of high speed broadband (wimax, 3g, etc) requires a line of sight to receive a good signal. There are a lot of rural areas that cannot get a LOS to the limited number of radio towers that provide it. This is where BPL has a market.

And lets not be ignorant, we can't shun the ham/shortwave radio guys. When a major disaster comes rolling around, they will be the ones saving our lives.

[GreatBallsOfFire]

Peter,

There were many local NYC hams who helped out during 9/11. Similar stories for Katrina and other crisis situations.

The fact of the matter is that hams are often involved in emergencies in one form or another. Most of them never seek out public acknowledgment so their work goes on entirely behind the scenes.

For example, many hams participate in a service called Military Affliliate Radio System or MARS. You must be a licensed ham to join, willing to expand your ham station to work on military frequencies, train in military procedures and devote a minimum number of hours each quarter to a MARS related activity. Some even volunteer for deployment should the need arise. They work with DOD, DHS and TSA during emergencies, but you rarely hear about it. During emergencies, these hams work side by side with government emergency workers

It's not just a bunch of people sitting around talking. Oh, and not to be left out of thie discussion, BPL radiation also affects DOD, FEMA, DHS, FCC, etc., not to mention all the additional RF radiation that citizens will be exposed to.

If you're interested in some of the facts, here are some links:
Ham Radio Works
http://www.emergency-radio.org/hamworks.html

World Trade Center
9/11/01: ?This is Not a Test.?
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/WTC.pdf

New Jersey Legislature Honors Amateur Radio's 9/11 Role
http://www.eham.net/articles/4572

Amateur Radio Operations Useful in Many Situations
http://nn.byu.edu/story.cfm/66387

ARRL, Amateur Radio Gears Up for Hanna, Ike
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2008/09/04/10316/?nc=1

MARS to Assist TSA "When All Else Fails"
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2006/07/27/100/?nc=1

MARS Assists with Hurricane Traffic for American Soldiers in Iraq, Afghanistan
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2008/09/04/10315/?nc=1

IDEC (Ham Radio)
http://www.cityofirvine.org/ipd/info_center/idec_ham_radio.asp

Wave of Destruction, Wave of Salvation
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41861-2005Jan2.html

[fritz269]

To be fair, Hams are not against BPL, just against the interfirence it causes. I am a ham and I am also an internet junkie. If we can have BPL, I am so for it but the interfirence has to be reduced to a tolerable level.

[aa9vi]

Ok folks, for those of you without an engineering degree or any sort of technical experience... Broadband over power lines does NOT work. Why? The power lines radiate. Ethernet uses a twisted pair which reduces this issue. Cable TV uses coaxial cable which keeps the signal trapped between the inner conductor and shield. Now, let me ask you this: Do power lines employ either of these features? answer: NO So, at low frequencies (HF 2-30 MHz) the power lines are not really a transmission line (like a pipe) , they act as an antenna. Since power lines are all over the place you have 2 issues: conducted and radiated interference. So, the whole technology is fatally flawed because power lines are not designed to carry HF signals. Two more questions: why don't cable companies use power lines for cable transmission? Why don't we use a lamp cord for ethernet in our homes and at work? The answer is the same... they are both VERY lossy and radiate. The same thing goes for broadband over power lines. It physically doesn't work! Rural folks are better off investing in Hughes Net, wireless from cell phone companies, wireless from a local ISP, or maybe... if it works Motorola TV white spaces (though some issues still remain with that too).

Now, if B.O. and his buddies want challenge physics with the politics and money, I guess we'll see what happens. BTW, it's not just hams that use the HF band. Airlines, the Coast Guard, the Armed Forces, and others all use it too.

Just accept that the technology is fatally flawed and lets move on from there.

[kg4zxk]

BPL is a bad idea. To use unsheilded wire is crazy. This causes interference to plenty of communication services not just amateur radio. To all the guys blasting hams... We are not the enemy. We love technology as much as the next guy and use it just like you. However, To throw something out just to throw it out when there are problems is crazy.

For the folks that think amateur radio is outdated... Amateur Satellites, HF communications, VHF, UHF, digital communications such as slowscan tv, fast scan, PSK-31... APRS for mobile digital communications and tracking, etc... We have the ability to communicate with the International Space Station as well.

Amateur radio is not old and dead like some folks think. go to hello.org and take a look around. There's also arrl.org and other good sites with information on amateur radio.

[spkynk]

Hey HAM nerds, nobodys listning. Use a phone if you want to talk to each other. The lack of broad band is just going to affect the education of millions of kids, including my own, who live in rural America. As more and more education shifts to the use of the internet millions will be left behind in these areas. And all because of interference to some ancinet radios people like to play with. What about new important technolgy like my PS3 gettin a decent ping time.