Comments on: Propane: the 'other white meat' of alternative fuels?

CleanFuel USA gets California Air Resources Board certification for its propane engine system designed for school buses and fleet trucks.

[feliusrex]

Propane as an engine fuel is only marginally useful, and poses significantly higher safety risks than even gasoline. Propane is a heavier than air flammable gas at atmospheric pressures, which is the worst combination for a fuel with respect to leaks and spills.
The other problem with this article is it doesn't point out that a gallon of propane is not energy equivalent to a gallon of gasoline. The ratio is about 3 gallons of propane equals 2 gallons of gasoline. Which means at $2.50 a gallon for propane, gasoline needs to be $3.75 or higher to see any benefit.
The last problem with propane is that it's not renewable. From a resource stand point, it's no different than oil. Methane is the one fuel gas that is renewable as it is produced by the anaerobic decomposition of organic material. There is at least one company (Prometheus Energy) that can take organically produced methane from landfills and produce transportation quality fuel. With the increase in gas prices, I'm sure more companies will move into this sector, particularly when the production of methane from cellulose (yard waste, paper trash) moves into the industrial scale.
For the most part, propane as a fuel is a non-starter.

[Brian57Sch]

I'm writing a white paper on the justification of diesel vs. propane and would love to have more information, and perhaps references, to your statements about propane being the worst combination for a fuel and its energy equivalent.

[skrubol]

Apples to oranges comparison. Comparing the price/gal. of different fuels is useless without also providing the energy density of those fuels. The average person has some idea that a gallon of diesel will get you a bit further than a gallon of gas (partly because diesel has higher energy density, partly because diesel engines are a bit more efficient,) but who knows how far a gallon of propane/LNG/hydrogen will get you?

[Brian57Sch]

Is there any research supporting the higher energy density of diesel and the efficiency of diesel engines that I can get my hands on for a white paper I'm writing to justify diesel vs. propane?

[shapeshootin]

The price difference sounds to good to be true. I'm wondering how many miles per gallon propane will yeild.

[mactechie--2008]

Wow, is CNET starting a press release service for companies now? Might as well as copied that straight from CleanFuel USA's web site.

Last time I got my grille's propane tank filled, it cost me $25. So I'm kind of doubting the price statistics quoted in the article.

Improving battery technology is the only way we're getting out of the energy crisis. Infrastructure is just to costly to keep upgrading or re-building; going fuel-free and just recharging from an electrical outlet is the only way to go.

Methane/Natural Gas (same thing really - their both methane, just depends on how it is derived) will be ideal for power production on the power grid to power all of the electric cars. It won't be enough though and we'll have to combine other sources to make up the slack including wind, solar, hydro, and nuclear.

[zbikenut]

Another point about Propane is the life expectancy of the engine is about double what it is for the same engine on gasoline usage. Also there is a significant decrease in power.

Rick

[murrays]

Some of that power loss can be recovered by increasing the compression ratio. Propane has a very high octane rating.

[suyts]

So what happens to the price of propane when we increase the demand without increasing the supply. Propane production already can't keep up with existing demand. The price has more than doubled this decade. Start adding fleets of propane-powered vehicles and you'll likely see the price of propane go to over $5/gal. The point is, it doesn't really matter what fuel we are going to use, all fuels are increasing to a prohibitive price. We have to increase the supply. This means, we need to start drilling for oil NOW, HERE. We need to start mining coal, HERE and NOW. We need to start refining and processing HERE and we need to do it NOW!!! Want more propane, fine, we need to open some refineries and make some propane.

[RaulLasVegas]

When you buy fuel in gallons, its GGE which is gasonline gallon equivalent. They did that so you dont have to worry about energy density. You usually dont buy natural gas or hydogen by the gallon, but when you fuel your car with it, it is sold in gallons to compensate for the energy density. A GGE of natural gas is 5.66 pounds. A CNG civic is rated at 35MPG. A gasoline civic is rated at 35 MPG. A gallon of CNG in Michigan is $1.94. It makes the math so much easier.

[kill_minus_9]

If this is true it is inevitable that demand and market manipulation will significantly run up the cost of propane per unit. Then all the media stories will be about people not barbecuing b/c of the cost.

I bet $1 on it.

[Cardinal_guy]

My suggestion to those that read this article is to actually do the research on how propane works as a motor fuel. The article itself is a good read but some of the replies and comments to the article are the most uninformed and inaccurate that I have ever read on the topic.

[help_ i _cant_ get_ up]

propane is about half the fuel mileage of gasoline. so its not a valid solution

[dieselpropanejoe]

I have a 2003 Ford F350 Diesel, Daully, 6.0 and want to convert it to use diesel and/or propane (daul fuel setup) and need the know if it is possible the convert it to propane. If so where could I purchase a convertion kit? Open for any/all suggestions. Thank You, God Bless, joebettyustin

[augiecrazy8]

Propane powering fleet vehicles has been a popular subject lately. But I saw a video on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/ferrellgas1) where a commercial truck used propane... so as a reply to dieselpropanejoe, it would appear that transitioning your F350 is possible.