Comments on: GE: Smart grid yields net-zero energy home

At its research labs, GE says it has the smart-grid technology, including solar panels and efficient appliances, to build a home that has a net-zero energy consumption.

[doubtthat]

I have a three story, 3,360 sq ft home with Low-e glass, SEER 15 heat pump and CFL light bulbs. My average electric bill for a year is $105 per month. If I tacked $30,000 onto my mortgage at 6% for 30 years, I would be paying $180 per month for a smart grid home. Not counting all the extra expensive appliances and big brother intrusion into my home. Why would I do that?

[gerrrg]

Because you wouldn't be tacking on $30,000 for a solar array; you'd be receiving benefits from state, city and federal to offset, such that the cost would be approximately half. Also, with your ultra-efficient home, you'd be feeding excess electricity back into the grid, thereby giving you back money.

Take $15,000 final cost for solar array into a 30 year mortgage @ 6%, that adds $90 / month onto your mortgage.

If by installing a solar array your electric bill was zero, then you'd net $15 ($105 - $90) a month.

[GeneralOSU]

@gerrrg - Where do you think the state, city and federal money comes from? When they aren't borrowing it from China, they are collecting it from us in taxes. So while someone with $0 tax bill (approximately half the country) may come out ahead, guess what that means for the half of us that actually do pay income taxes.

[ccmike72]

GeneralOSU-When did this thread have anything to do with taxes? Installing a solar array is an option, taxes aren't. Your gonna pay the taxes either way you may as well benefit from them. Go complain about taxes on the appropriate forum.

[b_baggins]

@ccmike,

It became an issue when the first commenter posted the asinine concept that government subsidies are "free."

And, no, you aren't gonna pay taxes either way. One way you're gonna pay taxes. The other way you're gonna pay a hell of a lot MORE taxes.

[JHankwitz]

"Take $15,000 on a 30 year mortgage? I have yet to see any solar array that has lasted more than 10 years without a major overhaul. Same goes for windmills. Adding $270 per month for home electricity instead of my current $60 utility bill would be insane.

[J5Chicago]

These ideas a great for homeowners, but they leave renters our of the equation entirely.

[Seaspray0]

Even the average homeowners are left out of the equation. Go try and put a wind generator up at your home and see what luck you have. You'll have to deal with the home owners association, the utility company, the enviromental protection agency, other government agencies for the permits... chances are you'll end up appearing before city hall defending yourself (it happens). The "not in my backyard" attitude of communities is very alive. Not only that, but the urban environment is detrimental to harvesting wind energy.

Try www.otherpower.com and you'll see what real people have had to deal with when it comes to using solar and wind energy.

[NehemiahStone]

They don't necessarily leave renters out. Smart controls system that gives tenants choices about their energy usage can save tenants a significant portion of their energy bills. Those bills on average account for 15%-20% of their monthly income (compared to ~4%-5% for homeowners). Therefore, energy savings can make a big difference in what is available for food, medicine, clothes and other necessities. The cost of outfitting a new apartment with a control system that allows the tenant to "set and forget," and which includes communication and control switches for major appliances and outlets, is under $600. Owners who invest in such a system can charge higher rents, splitting the savings with the tenants, so that they both win. With qualified affordable housing, this is done through utility allowances. With other multifamily properties, it can be accomplished with 3rd party certification and honest marketing messages.

[ChrisPrelitz]

Renters can still do lot's to lower thier utility bills. You can take cfl lamps, Smart Strips and Solar Cookers with you when you move. NewLeafAmerica.com has a green roadmap that is climate specific and includes renters.

[Kappa_E]

So that your kids and their kids would not have to bother about global warming

[doubtthat]

I don't have kids, so no worries there. Besides, it is called climate change now, get with the program.

Seriously though, why hasn't anyone bothered to explain how the planet was much warmer than it is today through most of its history and man obviously didn't cause that? What about the cool down that occurred 600 years ago? Who caused that?

[hutwarmer]

You're absolutely correct. At this point it is all a marketing ploy to reate a new source of revenue. Sure, it makes people feel all warm and fuzzy to think you are helping the save the planet by cutting back on their energy use. The fact is that this is just another way for big US companies to make more money and private industry and the US government to inject themselves even further into our lives. No thanks.

[strange1889]

@ doubtthat
it is exactly that kind of 'its not my problem' attitude that IS driving us to extinction, yes, extinction. I don't exactly believe in all this global warming **** either BUT I like clean air, I would like to live OFF the grid, and we are EVENTUALLY going to use all the coal, natural gas, and oil: then what? These technologies can equally be applied to live off the grid on your own power.

[chronostf]

While the root cause (man-made or natural) and extent of the observed warming during the last half century is debatable, the fact remains that the natural resources of the planet are finite. It's important that we use our resources more efficiently, and take advantage of sources of energy that are renewable (wind, solar, etc). To label attempts to use our resources more efficiently as a simple 'marketing ploy' is foolish and narrowminded. I'm sure the companies, like GE, who are taking the initiative with tackling the energy issue, are doing so at least partially motivated by money. That is not, however, a valid reason to dismiss the idea. By that logic you'd have to dismiss every business, hospital & medical clinic in the world. I'm not sure how the installation of the system described above involves the 'US government injecting themselves ever further into our lives'.

[strange1889]

@chronos
the "big brother" he is referring to is when you allow your appliances to be controlled by the power company via the network

[ralfthedog]

If we all use solar power it will make the Sun burn out sooner.

[bbennett40]

@ ralfthedog - HA!!!!! Just wait. That ploy will come.

[b_baggins]

I'm much more worried about my kids and their kids having to deal with economic collapse and government tyranny than some sort of imagined global apocalypse brought about by a 3 degree temperature gain.

[chronostf]

Just because you network appliances (or other more typically networked electronics like PC's), doesn't necessarily mean anyone outside of your home can monitor your activities. There's nothing in this article that says the devices are connected to the outside world, GE, or any governmental agency for that matter. My understanding of what they're saying here, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that your home appliances (dish washer, water heater, washer/dryer, etc) will be networked and controlled off of a 'Home Energy Manager', which would function as a hub that monitors and utilizes the devices in a cost and energy efficient manner. I still fail to see how this is a 'Big Brother' situation. Frankly it sounds more like panicked right-wing paronia.

b_bag... Failure to see the problem of increasing demand for finite & decreasing resources is shortsided and foolish. To consider this issue of secondary importance to 'economic collapse' is ludicrious since that's exactly what will begin to happen as we begin to exhaust our resources. 'Government Tyranny'? That's what you see when you read this?? Really??? I'd be curious what part of 'net-zero energy homes' translates into government tyranny. Maybe you're reading a different article... if so feel free to send it to me, as it sounds more interesting than this one.

[doubtthat]

@chronostf - Of course big brother will be watching. The utilities (aka - the government) will be able to tell you when you can use electric and how much or charge you an arm and a leg. Think of it as a "use tax". All this talk of off-peak usage is BS. Because if everyone starts using electric in off-peak times, the off-peak times will become the peak times. Besides that, they are peak times because that is when people need to use electric. I am not home to do my laundry during the day so I have to do it in the evening. If I load up a smart washer and it runs in the middle of the day, who is going to move it to the drawer and then hang it to get ready for the next load? Please people, USE YOUR BRAINS.

[gt1948]

Well they have been talking of this for years......when I see a GE store on the corner where I can walk in and sit down with a sales rep, then I will believe.

"Been waiting for new technology for years, holding at 60 years"

[tech_crazy]

Exactly. I guess that is why GE's slogan is "imagination at work". At work, they are only imagining, not doing!

[pwrhamr]

Thats incorrect. You didnt factor in the cost of getting new the applliances. The cost of getting rid of old, still working aplliances.
Also some states, like West Virginia (with a large coal lobby) has no tax breaks or rebates for solar.

[SanFranciscoDave]

Clearly, this will be too cheap to meter

[strange1889]

as in the power companies will no longer have incentive to even meter individual houses? or meter at all? or did I miss your point completely?

[Beaconps]

Couple of things to consider. It is almost certain that electricity will triple or quadruple in cost when a large number of electric cars are plugged into the grid. Your electric bill will be as high or higher only if you make all these changes, otherwise it will be over $500 a month, which is your incentive to change. The electric companies are scrambling to install smart meters. They are not doing this to put meter readers out of a job, they are preparing to capitalize on variable pricing.. Of course we have learned recently the software is hackable and not secure.

Figure $5 gas and convert to electricity and that will be the price. I found a conversion factor of 6 miles per kilowatt-hour. You can't do a btu conversion because gas is soooo inefficient . A car that gets 60 mpg will require an equivalent of 10 kilowatt-hours of electricity at an equivalent price of 50 cents a kilowatt.. Driving around for a day on 60 cents worth of electricity is not going to happen in the future, unless you generate the electricity. Of course you need to buy the equipment which will require a second mortgage.

[alancarlbrown]

What the heck do we need a display for? Doesn't GE know about wi-fi? Give people a piece of software they can run on their laptops.

And yes, the so called savings are really being borrowed or taxed from other people. Distortions of this sort don't give us accurate information about what makes economic sense.

When something costs a lot, that means there's a big impact in building. When the government hides the actual impact of things, we can't make good choices. But that is its modus operandi these days and the cause of our financial disasters.

[sslPro]

It's about logical energy use this may be good for some people - although it seems alot
more logical to reduce use by improving sytems in place ( ie hvac waste & antiquated lighting )
household energy waste in the usa is around 40% - total your gas/elect/water what is it $200 monthly
probably more - Be logical/practical even patriotic fix leaks & switch to Leds and you can stop wasting
$100s or $10,000s use the resources available to become less of a slave!

[Flynn_p2008]

I live next to a weight loss woman's gym. If I need to save on electricity, I'll just hook the exercise bikes up to the grid.

[carlhage]

A home energy manager at $200 seems to high of a price. It's similar in function and requirements for a $30 indoor/outdoor weather indicator, or $30 programmable thermostat. Appliance/light controllers using the X10 standard cost less than $50 with on/off/dim modules around $10. If it relies on a computer (or web browser) for setup and reporting, that saves a bit. The X10 companies are almost there-- too bad they haven't gotten their act together and modified their products to fit this application. I've just seen relabelling old products as "green" without thinking about it.

Would the GE controller only work on GE appliances? The problem now is agreeing upon a standard for communications or control, and I don't see much talk of that. Bluetooth solved the problem for cell phones and computer keyboard/mouse, though in an expensive way. It could be useful to just add a little connector to an appliance that allows a remote control to turn on/off or reduce power. Then you could add whatever control module works with your system and then just connect a short cable or plug. So far, Smart-Grid seems overly complicated.

While travelling in Argentina, I noticed the washing machine had a timer already built-in so you could run the wash overnight, just like the bread maker. It doesn't have to be that complex, but simple features like this need to be added.

[scott2400]

These comments are hilarious. Who said you'd be FORCED to buy all new appliances, right off the bat? I believe they're talking about replacement - when it's needed. Or, should they continue to manufacture old, energy sucking appliances just to soothe your inner Luddite? How does modulating electric flow for efficient use translate into Big Bad Government intrusion? Will a giant hand reach in and flip the switches on your TV, right in the middle of your enjoyment of "Gilmore Girls" reruns? The Rabid Right Wing has you snowed, and your comments show it.

By the way, b_baggins... a 3 degree rise in average global temps would be unprecedented, despite the propaganda you cling to. I guess if you're willing to inundate much of our coastline just so you don't have to shell out a few more bucks, you wouldn't mind moving yourself and your family there first. Bring your snorkel, simpleton.

If you feel more comfortable driving your gas-guzzling SUVs, and sucking your electric from smoke-belching coal plants - fine. Move to China, where that's almost a patriotic ideology. We're already paying through the nose for product of outdated and inefficient technology, and I'm sick of it. Time to move on and try to catch up to the 21st century. Will progress be more expensive? Name something worthwhile that isn't. YOUR taxes gone down yet?

[VultureTX]

Remember when GE was going to sell us a natural gas fuel cell to create electricity for our homes? And we were going to sell the surplus to the Grid.

/yeah GE selling EGRESS to the energy crisis for decades now. Old PT would be proud of their marketing.

[justinf79]

Interesting. I can see my future home having something like this installed in it when it's being built.

So the $30,000 solar array will power all your energy needs? Including water heating and home heating/cooling?

[Seaspray0]

No, it won't. But you'll have a very expensive display panel to remind you of that.

[aarish75]

http://www.thesolarguide.com/solar-energy-systems/financing-incentives.aspx

[nervous_cat]

What are the options for those of us who live in condos? We don't own the outside structure, and there are limitations because of condo association rules.

[sslPro]

IF you reside in a condo take heart your lifestyle decision means your already are helping -try to do two
or three more things; take one less auto trip each week - reduce your garbage output by 1 or 2 pounds daily-
BUY & use Led lighting (preferably made in the usa) There are dozens of logical and economical -
practical efficiency improvements that can be made by all of us

[haberrr]

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[mackglider1]

somebody should repost this to ALLVOICES ....head over and sign up at www.allvoices.com/rewards/aaa they have a new section dedicated to all things green

[hal_thresher]

And I can take this barnyard manure and put it through my composter to generate methane for the subdivisions gas turbine.
I am now paying my electric provider in Houston, TX $3.50 a month for a smart meter that will not be installed for 5 years. How the Smart Meter is going to change my power usage in a 25 year old house currently escapes me. My bet is they will try and shaft the retail consumer more through hourly pricing which is why they are putting in the meters. But what is even stranger, the smart meters amount for Dallas is substantially less than for us in Houston. When asked our PUC could not explain. Surprise Surprise.

So in 10 years CNET why don't you drag out this puff piece and compare its statements to reality.

[Seaspray0]

I share the same sentiment with my fellow houstonian.