Comments on: Detroit Electric resurrected as $25,000 electric car

Detroit Electric, a company that combines European engineering, Asian manufacturing, and an American brand, announces a deal to produce and sell electric sedans next year.

[Goodbye Helicopter]

the new one is as ugly as a pontiac...
they'd sell more if they looked exactly like the originals.
guaranteed.

[rubenerd]

I lived in Malaysia for two years. As soon as I read "Proton" I lost interest, yuck :-P.

[artistjoh]

Being ugly never stopped the popularity of Hyundi's, Kia's, VW Beetles etc. When the price point is low enough and the cost per mile to operate is dramatically less than an internal combustion engine, there is no reason to believe these cars won't sell in large numbers. Mix price with climate morality and success is written all over this car.

[gerrrg]

Price isn't everything to the value buyers, while it means everything for the bargain hunters. Hence, only the bargain hunters - aloof amidst the poor quality - will buy cheap and forgo quality.

[cancercomesfromoil]

These guys are actually ZAP. Read this:

ZAP Misdeeds:

Their factory turned out to be a sham:

http://earth2tech.com/2009/03/09/zap-kentucky-deal-is-a-lesson-for-politicians-touting-green-jobs/

Plus more scams:

http://mfrtech.com/articles/1570.html

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/03/the-zap-x-and-a.html

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/11/26/ge-capital-kentucky-zap-deal-what-kentucky-zap-deal/

http://earth2tech.com/2008/11/20/zap-deal-going-splat/

Newspaper Report: Integrity Manufacturing Being Sued; Bank Seeking Sale of Property
Friday, February 06, 2009 - Article #1845

Click image to enlarge The Business First of Louisville is reporting that National City Bank is suing Shepherdsville, Kentucky-based Integrity Manufacturing and other companies connected with entrepreneur Randall Waldman.

According to front page report, the suit alleges the defendants are in default for more than $1 million for failing to pay off a loan that came due in May 2008. National City - which was acquired by PNC Financial Services Group in late 2008 - holds a mortgage on the property on Ky. 44 where Integrity has its factory and the bank is asking the court to sell the property to pay the debt.

Waldman reportedly said the bank declined to renew the mortgage agreement when it expired.

The Business First article also lists several other legal challenges against Integrity and Waldman. Integrity Manufacturing, a precision machining operation, has employed as many as 400, but Waldman reportedly said the company now has only about 200 workers.

Another venture, Integrity Automotive ? owned by Waldman and several minority partners ? was set to be a majority owner of a new one million square foot ZAP plant in Simpson County, Kentucky. The company would be under a production contract with California-based ZAP (OTCBB: ZAAP), which develops, markets and distributes electric vehicles. ZAP started contracting with overseas manufactures to produce the vehicles and now looks to bring some of that production back to the United States, company officials have said.

The endeavor in Kentucky was estimated to cost about $200 million.

Integrity Automotive says it's completed an application for a $200 million loan from the U.S. Department of Energy Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program. In a January news release, Waldman said the application for a fed loan was a major step to getting the plant built in Kentucky. There was no indication when a decision would be made on the recent federal loan application.

Last summer, state officials announced the ZAP plant would come to Kentucky and bring as many as 4,000 jobs.

Within months the plan seemed to unravel.

In November 2008, Waldman told news sources - including Manufacturing & Technology eJournal - he had financing lined up for the ZAP plant through GE Capital. Then, he said, GE pulled the plug on all its U.S. projects leaving the plans in limbo.

A spokesperson from GE disputed that account, saying the finance company had never made a commitment to the plant. When asked if the governor's office had failed to verify that financing for the project was in place before making the big announcement, a spokesperson said "we were told that "financing was in place."


Click image to enlarge For more information about Integrity Manufacturing visit http://www.integrity-manufacturing.com/

For more information about ZAP visit http://www.zapworld.com/

Related articles:

http://www.mfrtech.com/articles/1570.html

[RobertFHarwood]

I read your comment and got that ZAP is the victum. They contracted for the work and it isn't going to be done.

[mlamonica]

For the relationship between Zap and Detroit Electric, the latest information is in this press release, a company representative said today: http://www.zapworld.com/detroit-electric-partners

from the release:
The 100-year-old Detroit Electric brand was reestablished in 2007 as a joint venture by California electric vehicle manufacturer ZAP (OTC Bulletin Board: ZAAP - News) and China Youngman Automobile Group. Under the agreement, ZAP will transfer ownership interest in Detroit Electric in exchange for North American sales and distribution rights for all vehicles developed and manufactured by Detroit Electric as well as $750,000 (US Dollars). According to Lam, China Youngman Automobile Group will relinquish its ownership under a separate arrangement, but will continue to provide vehicle platforms to Detroit Electric for pure electric transit buses and coaches.

Detroit Electric has attracted technology-based shareholders and investors in Europe to continue its development program for a range of four wheeled, multi-passenger automobiles for manufacture in Malaysia and China. The Company expects to announce its vehicle projects by the end of 2008.

[mike_ekim]

According to the links you posted:

-GE Capital stopped financing big jobs. In case you didn't know, GE lost their shirt just like a bunch of other companies. Is that ZAP's fault?

-The company that was supposed to build ZAP's Kentucky factory went bankrupt and are the target of several lawsuits. Zap is not being sued, the company Zap hired to build a factory is being sued. Is tha ZAP's fault?

-Zap is suing Dailmer-Chrysler for interfearing with it's business. Apparently that makes Zap look bad. Go ZAP!

-An article written in 2008 criticized Zap because it didn't employ many people in 2006. The journalist didn't bother to print what the then-current (2008) labor force at Zap was. Outdated information, clearly an unbalanced article.

-Zap doesn't make a big profit, in fact it looses money. Considering the 'Big 3' were begging congress for cash a few months back, that's par for the course.

[Alphaman63]

The DE website actually says the projected range is 320km (198mi), not 110mi as quoted in the above article.

[xcal78]

There's a Standard version that does 110 miles then the Extended version that does 200 miles.

[BogusBasin]

People will absolutely forgo quality for low prices. Just look at the success of Walmart and MS Windows. Amen

[codynews]

Windows is a bad example unless you're just trying to make a slam against MS. And walmart sells the same crap that everyone else does (coke, xbox 360 games, George Forman grills, etc) just at cheaper prices. It's not like they have a lot of "store brand" cheaper stuff.

Nice fail.

[BogusBasin]

@codynews

You're right. Using MS is a bad example. The computers that come with it are really cheap. But OEM Windows costs a lot. My point, that even you should be able to grasp is that sheeple tend to buy based on cost first and foremost. Cost and features. It doesn't matter if it is good or not. If the box lists enough features and the cost is low, they will buy. Even if they end up throwing it away a month later. If enough people decided to buy only quality products, the cost of those products would come down. But people don't always act in their own best interest. Just look at the president we voted in twice for the last 8 years. Amen

[mike_ekim]

Windows cost more than linux, linux is free and is also offered on new computers. :P

[moon_brain]

I'd buy one if they had a hatchback or cargo-version. I'd really like to see this technology in something like the Honda Element, making it more practical for businesses to make deliveries with and people with active lifestyles. The problem with the traditional sedan is that it's boring and not useful. Otherwise, I can't wait to see these on the road.

[aka_tripleB]

Has anyone else realized that we seem to be digressing in transportation? We're going back to having modes of transportation that will only allow us to travel 50 miles from our home.

[texaslabrat]

Nope..didn't realize it since the statement is inaccurate. The cars in the article go between 110 and 200 miles (depending on the size battery pack ordered). The "50 mile" cars you allude to (eg Chevy Volt) have range-extending power generation onboard making their range virtually unlimited assuming adequate fueling stations can be found.

[sanenazok]

@texaslabrat: uhm the 50 mile range is probably since most people like to get back home after driving somewhere. So while it's possible to go 110 miles, that would be a one way trip. Until batteries take <5minutes to recharge, disposable cars anyone?

[texaslabrat]

@sanenazok

That is one interpretation...sure. And if it's the case that aka_tripleB meant it that way...I'll point out again that the car is available in a 200 mile version (and models from shops like Tesla are available with 300 mile options)..giving a "trip radius" of 100+ miles, not 50. Far more as recharging stations begin to pop up (similar situation to owning a propane/LNG vehicle in some parts of the country: unlimited potential range *if* you can find a filling station when you need one). And as for the 5-minute rechargeable batteries...the basic tech is here now...just have to wait until the next generation of production batteries incorporates the new know-how.

[rapier1]

I like the idea but, unfortunately, the range is too limiting for me. While I probably only drive more than 100 miles once a month or so that's often enough to want to ability to make those trips in a single run - so if it takes more than 10 minutes or so to recharge this is going to be a non-starter. Which makes me sad - maybe I can put a gas powered generator in the trunk :)

[open-mind]

Bingo ... range anxiety is the classic problem. This car is not fast enough or practical enough to be worth $25K or $30K, and good luck getting it serviced. May as well spend $32.5K (after tax incentives) on a Volt that has unlimited range, can be serviced nearly anywhere, and probably will have a better warrantee.

[sythara]

This is what we need

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Nucleon

It will be the solution for everything dealing with transportation.

[lyntone]

This beats the 40 mile range from the Volt, from GM! Maybe the new CEO WONT BE LOOTING THE COMPANY AT GM AND WILL PUT MORE MILAGE INTO THE vOLT! A 40 MILE RANGE IS A JOKE!

[regulator1956]

Lyntone,

Yelling incorrect information indicates you're an idiot.

The Volt will be able to go up to 40 miles on battery before the on-board gasoline engine kicks in to supply more electricity to the drive system. The full range is 400+ miles.

[SactoGuy018]

I think at least for the foreseeable future (until battery technology really improves), the solution is plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs). Both Toyota and Ford (both of which have well-proven hybrid drivetrains) can easy adapt their technology for PHEV operation, which means the car runs about 70 to 80 km (43 to 49 miles) before the gasoline engine starts up to provide power and recharge the batteries. Given that most auto commutes are under 15 miles each direction, a PHEV means for daily commutes you'll barely use the gasoline engine and on weekends your PHEV will drive like a regular hybrid vehicle on longer drives. In short, you get the benefits of electric vehicles for weekday commutes and the range of a regular hybrid for longer drives on weekends or vacation periods.

[mike_ekim]

Batteries are very expensive and have a limited (5 year) lifespan, which needs to be factored into operating cost. They have their own environmental impact as well. How about smaller, more efficient cars?

[open-mind]

SactoGuy018, you just described the Chevy Volt. I've seen nothing from Ford/Toyota regarding vehicles like what you described, so if you can, please provide a reference to their 70 to 80 km claim. Thanks.

I don't think what you're describing is easy, else it would have already been done. What you describe requires bigger batteries, bigger motors and bigger controllers. That means higher cost, higher weight, volume limitations, changes to vehicle dynamics and safety factors, etc. Pretty much a complete redesign is required to pull it off IMHO.

[biffhenerson]

Yawn.... The styling is soooo blah. I would rather drive the 1914 Detroit Electric because it looks different!

[Bill_I]

Somebody suggested slide-out battery packs that you could swap out on the road. They would be too heavy, and dangerous voltages involved. It would be about the same task as getting a new set of tires.

[Jma11]

Not your cup of tea ? Fine but this and other car companies are starting to give consumers what they want. I drive between 0 to 10 or 20 miles a day and am ready to have a car that fits my needs.

Exclusionary auto mfg has ruled in the the US for far too long, now we will all have choices. Beyond that the Contract Mfg. concept has been used by so many industries for years but it was just one more thing that Detroit said it can't do. Their view is still that one person driving a new every 2 years, 4000 pound SUV to the grocery is just fine. Fine for them but not sustainable for all of us.

[ledhead1962]

You know I keep thinking that the the Model T was no where near the present day auto in abilities and was even suspect when put up against the era's established mode of transport - the horse, and look at it's success. The shear negativity that each and every one of the articles that talk about the next generation of transport technology garners is mind boggling and a source of great dismay. The litany of reasons why this won't work and that can't work is absolutely disgusting! How about the fact that something has to change pretty damn soon or we can all kiss our sorry ***** goodbye. I am not just talking about the environment ecologically but financially as well. Does everyone think that the propping up of the auto industry will do any good if these new technologies don't mark a new day? Instead of seeing the opportunity that is staring us right in the face we would rather mire ourselves in a festival of dithering and hand wringing. It really make s me wonder how the U.S ever gained the reputation for being a "can do" nation. What are we waiting for? LETS STOP ARGUING AND GO GET EM ALREADY!!

[net40]

Detroit Electric - sounds like an oxymoron.

[3jhquq4235089u]

The true argument against electric has nothing to do with range, seating, or color choices. The real argument is against a change in the way we drive and how the current support infrastructure will have to change. Auto parts stores will sell fewer oil filters, belts, alternators, starters, and brake pads. More gas stations will close the same way they did when fuel economy was raised in the 70s. Oil change and auto service locations will close, refinery capacity will drop and so will the number of truck loads of volatile fuel on the road. People that complain about the limitations of electric are not mentally ready for the change (or they may be financially hurt by the shift). The simple fact is that the population of the world grows every year and becomes increasingly hungry for resources. The natural resources to support life on this planet are limited and decreasing. We will have no choice but to curtail excesses. Oil is only the beginning.


Hopefully mainstream electric cars will quickly be able to deliver what most of us demand
can comfortably fit four 6' tall Americans and a trunk full of their stuff
will run all electric for all the errands/commuting for the week
have the range to drive say 600 highway miles on the weekend

Seems like to closest is the Volt, but since GM is on shaky ground these day, who knows if it will ever reach the showroom or be affordable for us. Seems to me that people who will spend $40k on a car are already driving a Lexus or something similar.

[amps911]

The Proton , the all electric vehicle that is a step in the right direction. Although is does not have the distance on a single charge, for now it could be use for short distances, shopping, short errands, and going to work and back. What it does lack is a way to recharge the batteries while the car is in uses. This would increase the distance per charge. Having an on board charging system, and charging the batteries while the car is in uses or while the car is park. This would be the ideal system. It will still require you to plug it into a 120 VAC or 240 VAC system, to get a complete charge. The Proton ! It has a price tag that the average person can afford. Detroit Electric ! KEEP IT SIMPLE and keep all those gadgets off the vehicle.

[amps911]

If its not made in the US ! Forget it ! Not Interested ! Keep it out !