Comments on: Plotting the long road to one million electric cars

Electric car industry group EDTA is set to issue a policy wish list, arguing that policies are needed to establish battery manufacturing and charging infrastructure.

[ewelch]

My next car is going to be electric. Hurry up!

[rmva]

The real problem here is that non-US companies are much farther ahead in battery technology. Your next electric car may just be a BMW.

[42istheanswer]

For 40 Billion USD the gubment could purchase 1 Million Chevy Volts. Assuming a 40K price tag. That could probably put a few people back to work. Compare that to the 8.5 TRILLION already allocated to the 'financial/fraud' bailout. From what I've seen so far none of these TRILLIONs have had any effect on the economy nor is there going to be one other than hyperinflation at the end of it.

I could rant further but I'm sure everyone has heard it a thousand times before. If you haven't, wake up.

[E-fried]

Don't be so negative. Zero Emission has two feasible options:

1. Improved Neighbourhood vehicles for urban commuting

2. Dual Mode Vehicles (or serial hybrids) allowing holiday trips too

The wish to simply exchange the power train by an electric one will certainly fail unless you may refill the battery in minutes, but this is not within reach.

cheers

http://www.greenfleet.info

[James Anderson Merritt]

Batteries don't need to be recharged in minutes; all that is required is for battery-packs to be replenished in minutes. The latter can be achieved by adopting a standard battery module design and making battery packs out of easily-accessed, interchangeable, standard modules. This approach is being championed by Project Better Way and their automotive partners. We already have a similar infrastructure -- the network of propane tank suppliers, who will either refill your tank while you wait, or give you a filled one in exchange for your "empty" and some cash. Just so, EV battery module suppliers would charge numerous standard modules in "the back room" and swap out your depleted modules for charged ones. Already, auto manufacturers are talking about "leasing" the batteries to customers; to the extent that they pursue this line of thinking, that will make it all the easier to replace gasoline "filling stations" with battery "swapping stations," as people won't worry so much about relinquishing depleted batteries they didn't own anyway, in exchange for new, fully-charged ones they likewise don't own. Also, consider that running a "swapping station" is pretty much a "clean" operation. No volatile or toxic chemicals being sloshed (or toxic fumes being wafted) around the premises, no need for large storage tanks under the property, or worries about gasoline or gasoline additives leaching into the groundwater, and no need, except at the busiest stations that cater to highway travel, perhaps, for the extensive, high-capacity electrical wiring and fixtures, of the type seen at power substations.

Where, in all this, is government necessary? It might be nice to have a government seal of approval for the standard module specification, I suppose, but the various interested parties are perfectly capable of establishing the standard and agreeing upon it without government participation. The "coordination" that EDTA champions is completely possible within the private sector, and really, not all that hard to achieve. Standards are developed in industry all the time, without government needing to take a role at all. Yet EDTA has their HQ in DC, which means that they must think government has a large role, whether to help their agenda or hinder it. I have to wonder about that.

Replacing the gasoline drive train with electric provides numerous attractive benefits for the consumer (better fuel efficiency, no tailpipe emissions or need for smog checks, much greater reliability and lower repair expense, snappier performance, ability to operate safely in enclosed spaces, and many more). As long as EVs are price-competitive with other types of vehicles, I am confident that more than enough consumers will choose EVs as the way to enjoy any or all of those benefits, thus securing the EV's place in the automotive marketplace.

[open-mind]

James, I don't think these battery swapping stations are likely to happen any time soon. Today's best auto battery systems weigh hundreds of pounds and require sophisticated electronics that control charge state and heating/cooling. They need to be designed as an integral part of the vehicle for functional and safety reason. Even if a swappable battery system could be designed and agreed up (not likely), creating the new battery swapping infrastructure would cost many billions of dollars.

That doesn't compare well to the simpler and cheaper existing alternative of simply slow charge the batteries at night (good for about 50 miles the next day) and occasionally using a liquid fuel (gasoline, alcohol, diesel, bio-diesel, etc) when you need to drive long distances.

[easybatex]

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martti

[dennisl59]

Never ever mention of Compressed Natural Gas as a proven and plentiful domestic energy source for internal combustion engines. Could someone please explain? Thank You.

[kacirooroo]

There could be no better investment in America than to invest in America becoming energy independent. The high cost of fuel this past year did serious damage to our economy and society. After a brief reprieve gas prices are inching back up again. Our nation should not allow other nations to have such power over us and our economy . We have so much available to us in the way of technology and free sources of energy. WE seriously need to get on with becoming an energy independent nation. We are spending billions upon billions in bail out dollars. Why not spend some of those billions in getting alternative energy projects set up. We could create clean cheap energy, millions of badly needed new green jobs and lessen our dependence on foreign oil all in one fell swoop. I just read an eye opening book by Jeff Wilson called The Manhattan Project of 2009. It would cost the equivalent of 60 cents per gallon to drive and charge an electric car.If all gasoline cars, trucks, and SUV?s instead had plug-in electric drive trains, the amount of electricity needed to replace gasoline is about equal to the estimated wind energy potential of the state of North Dakota. Why don?t we use some of the billions in bail out money to bail us out of our dependence on foreign oil? This past year the high cost of fuel so seriously damaged our economy and society that the ripple effects will be felt for years to come

[Inconnux]

The car companies will go along with the 'electric car' until they can change administrations. California once had rules about electric cars and lobbied for YEARS to change the clean air laws. When the laws were changed they dumped their electric cars an crushed them. The Car companies make a majority of their money on aftermarket accessories+ replacement parts, and electric cars would cut that market to almost nothing.

[scptt paul]

James Merritt's comments are mostly right, but I'll take issue with the battery swapping idea. It's one we in the EV world have been talking about for a long time. In order for this to work, the OEMs will have to buy millions of additional packs at great expense, pay for storage in thousands of swapping stations, and convince enough other OEMs to standardize their packs to conform with everyone else's. This is all very unlikely to work.

What will work is a wide variety of EVs that are used primarily for commuting and other daily driving needs, combined with a wide variety of plug-in hybrids much like the Toyota Prius PHEV and the Chevy Volt. If folks have the choice between these two technologies, there will be no need for fully gas powered cars.

As to the question of whether the feds should provide a subsidy, I strongly agree that they should. The need to move toward using renewable, domestic electricity instead of dirty , foreign oil is too critical to delay any longer.

The recent announcement that Obama's plan is to increase the $7500 tax credit to an even $10,000 is welcome. When compared to the costs of these packs in the range of $700-$1,000 per kWh, this brings the price of the Volt to within an affordable range for most Americans.

[yanchineseguy]

I agree with you that the battery swapping idea is not as easily doable as migrating to a more hybrid auto fleet. However, we have standardized fueling options now, where gasoline (and diesel) is trucked to every corner of the country and stored in underground tanks. All gas stations use the same standardized pumps, nozzles, meters, gas grades, etc. In addition, all car batteries are pretty standard, too. It's definitely doable, but not in a short time.

[willdryden]

Tax credits will not help when the automakers refuse to make the vehicles. Everybody is saying 2010, but will they arrive? Back in 1995, everybody thought 1997 and there was one model from every major manufacturer. Lease only and then crushed. Why should we believe the auto makers now?

[nv-oc]

Beyond battery technology and charging infrastructure; the electric car movement is overlooking one very important factor: Where are we going to get all this extra electricity needed to charge electric cars? America's electrical grids are already stressed and, to date, we have not developed clean, affordable electrical power plants on a large scale. If we use coal fired power plants to charge our electric cars; what have we achieved?

Our organization looks at energy from the standpoint of its impact on water resources. Currently the nations 550 power plants use 214 billion gallons of water each day for cooling purposes. In addition these plants pollute water resources with lead and mercury. If the electrical demand is significantly increased the need for, and pollution of, water resources will also increase. Electrical cars are a great idea; but their charging sources must come from wind or solar energy.