Comments on: A visual tour of the GM Volt, electric cars

Take a closer look at the electric Chevy Volt and a number of electric and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles under development and already commercial.

[AppleSuxLeo]

This is the same way a locomotive works. What took them so long to figure this out ? Diesel engine in locomotive powers a generator which powers the electric traction motors. This system is much better than the Prius system. Less complex and more efficient.

[Joe Real]

Fully agree that this is a lot better than Prius technology. It has been suggested decades ago, even before EV-1. Truly more efficient and less emissions for most of American driving errand habits and daily commuting. The pure electric mode capable of freeway speed will cover 78% of the driving range needs. And when you go long distance, there is no need to rent or buy another long-distance travel car, this one does it all.

[getFBout]

this is a good point

[Vegaman_Dan]

Highball in Run-8!

Something I haven't seen mentioned before is that when the Volt is running on fuel to charge the battery pack and you are done driving, there is an option to have the engine keep running to charge when you're away from a location with power. While this isn't so good in a parking garage or your home, it is a nice touch.

I really wish they had kept the concept body- that thing was hot. I understand why it was dropped, but... yeah.

They'll have to really work on getting the sticker price to be affordable.

[clamenza]

This won't solve the problem in urban settings except for people with garages. Of course, that's hardly a complaint if it does come through - and assuming GM survives.

[freemarket--2008]

Having a garage makes it convenient, but I don't see any technical barriers to having an outdoor recharging fixture almost anywhere. Once there is a demand, I'm sure one or more solutions will quickly appear.

[mlamonica]

Good point. These auto companies (not just GM) will be introducing their electric cars selectively. They'll go first for states/regions with the best incentives to buy them, but also places that have charging stations at parking lots, businesses, etc.

[Vegaman_Dan]

The Volt can charge itself while it's parked by leaving the engine running. This is a feature that is available when you're not in a garage or near a charging location.

I expect larger employers like MSFT or Google or even Apple might offer preferred parking for these types of vehicles. Think of it- you charge up your car at home, drive to work and top off there while at work, then drive home. You may end up not touching the gas at all and the company could probably get some sort of credit for being 'green' as a result.

[Joe Real]

It should be easy to put charging stations along with parking meters for those people without garage. Utility company could have better deals for their electricity if they were the ones to provide the rharging infrastructure. People can recharge while they shop or dine, and get charged as well, depends on how well you design the interface to the rechargers, including anti-theft and tamper protection.

For example, we can place solar PV atop various parking areas to provide shade and power. Also in freeway rest areas, like the ones in Oregon, they installed arrays of solar PV that are grid-tied.

With Solar PV and battery technology in the Volt, we would have reduced need for imported oil.

Solar PV in conjunction with these battery technologies should go hand in hand, to prevent utilities and their power brokers from speculating on the perceived increased demand that jacks up the prices of electric power.

The sad thing is that while First Solar has brought down the cost of production of solar PV to $1.08/watt capacity, the installed cost are still in the $7-$9/watt after rebates. Price of solar PV should go down to $4/watt to be feasible, but the rebates keep the prices up there.

But once the solar PV has gone down cheap enough, to below $4/watt after rebates, then it would be wise to purchase both if you can. RE-EVs and solar PVs. Energy independence and security at the household level wouldn't be far away.

[Joe Real]

One thing that I don't agree with GM is that they went along with battery contracts from Korea's LG Chem for the sub-par batteries that are just good enough. This is exactly the same as trading our oil addiction for battery addiction from one country to another. We are still doomed.

I would have applauded GM if they went with A123's Lithium Ion Iron Nanophosphate batteries that are locally manufactured in the US, whose batteries are far safer, higher power density and several times longer life span, albeit at a very justifiable higher price. And look at Think's car which is powered by A123, it can beat Tesla when it comes to traversing the first quarter mile, because it can deliver power very quickly without the need for cooling apparatus. That is how safe A123 batteries are. Quick charging and discharging with at least 150,000 cycles.

And adding insult to injury is that LG Chem has developed s much more improved batteries that are at par with A123's, but have received instruction form the Korean Government to release those batteries only to Korean Car companies. And guess what, Hyundai got those better LG Chem batteries for cars sold in New Zealand, and has therefore leapfrogged GM's Volt! Hyundai's RE-EV's have longer electric mile range than the Volt at same price range.

I don't know what to make about GM's decision making team.

[AppleSuxLeo]

There is nothing to keep them from upgrading the batteries as things progress , just like in the software world.

[kzemach]

A123 batteries are not made in the US. It is a US company, but the batteries are made in China.

[Joe Real]

while it is made in china, the R&D is in the US by our very own MIT. Once the plans for complete manufacturing automation is done to match the increased demands, batteries will be made in the US for yet cheaper production and not requiring a lot of labor as is currently done in china.

The LG Chem batteries will be produced forever in Korea. GM confessed that they have moved their R and D from Michigan to Koreaand thus will be subsidizing the LG Chem battery packs Research and Development in Korea. This is insane for them to have balls asking for bailouts! Do you want to forever subsidize R&D in Korea?

[jvfabian1]

Here we go again, no long term vision.
They come out with a car that can be charged on 110/220. OK great.
Batteries are DC current.
PV cells are DC current.
You lose a lot of power converting DC to AC back to DC
Plus a power converter in the car that takes 110/220 and charges the battery adds weight that lowers you mileage. Every pound slows you down.
If the government is moving at full speed toward adding PV to the list of power sources for building and public spaces, why not add a DC input to the electric cars that can be driven from PV sources?
By the way, in an earlier comment by Joe Real, he made a comment on the costs per watt for PV being too high. There is a way around it, there is a company back in Massachusetts that invented and is installing PV with 60% efficiency.

Check it out http://www.sundrumsolar.com/

How? PV panels because of the sun and color and conversion get hot, very hot and heat causes the PV performance to degrade. So they add a heat exchanger and pump a fluid behind the PV panels and then the heated fluid (about 140F) is used to heat the hot water for the building. So, you get improved PV output and hot water at the same time. That is Yankee ingenuity that needs to be incorporated in homes and public buildings. Cheap and immediate improvements.

[Joe Real]

@jvfabian1: Also check out www.morgansolar.com, they practically have reduced the solar PV technology to be affordable by third world countries. They are a good bet to beat the other greedy Solar PV companies that maintains lucrative high prices due to subsidies. Morgan Solar's CPV technology is far superior to MIT's recent dyen technology, by several hundred fold better. They will be concentrating unto a corner instead of edges, and are using directional acrylix within the CPV material rather than the costlier spray-on dyes or paints.

[ferretboy88]

If everyone would stop eating junk food they would lose weight and it would help MPG.

[Joe Real]

I would have really loved the Volt from GM, but they will be producing most of the parts from out of the US, only assembling it here! Guess what Wagoner drove to Capitol Hill? He droved a Lacetti with Volt Parts from Korea! Not only does GM will use the sub-par battery packs from Korea, the Volt Chassis was designed by Dawewoo (Korea), Wagoner droved the Lacetti that has Korean Domestic Market grill and door handle. The final phase of the the Volt pre-production R&D is being done in Korea. I think the Volt will be made hugely with Korean parts using the US taxpayers money!

No further bailouts for GM unless:
GM will required to mass produce the Volt car for the US market by 2010 and beyond.
GM will be required to source 85%-100% of the Volt's parts from US manufacturers and suppliers
GM will be required to source the best battery packs that were developed by US companies and require the battery makers to manufacture batteries in the US.

GM can continue their R&D in Korea, and even manufacture Volt cars in Korea for sale to the Europe and other global markets but not in the US.

[matthewbulat]

Consider that an electric car running costs is about 1/10 compared to petrol car.
The cost of fuel over the life of a vehicle can be more than the purchase price.
Can a electric car be used as a second vehicle?
Can a electric car be used as a first vehicle, and hire a car for the few days where long trips are needed?
To work out the purchase plus running costs of electric versus petrol cars over time I have created a online calculator to work it out.
http://www.matthewb.id.au/media/Electric_Vehicle_Calculator.html
The default values for the electric car is based on the Think City shown in the article.
Regards
Matthew Bulat
http://www.matthewb.id.au/

[mechanix22]

Massive stuff..GM is doing it's bit to restabilise the automobile world.
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