Comments on: Duke Energy to invest in mini solar power plants

Can hundreds of rooftop solar panels collectively operate like a central power plant? Duke Energy launches $100 million distributed solar program to find out.

[Dan_DHRT]

This is an excellent approach. The average and many above-average home owners cannot afford solar PV, even with the current grants from various levels of government.

In Canada, they have just announced a pilot program for solar water heaters to see installed up to 8,000 across the country for those home owners involved with the ecoENERGY Retrofit program. The Federal Government is kicking in an additional 4 figure grant on top of the already $1,000 Federal and (for most) Provincial grants. This will put solar water heaters similar in financial pabyback to tankless water heaters (that still consume non-renewable resources and emit directly / indirectly pollutants into the air).

Currently the only solar device that may be within the financial where-with-all of average home owners are solar space heating devices.

Dan
DailyHomeRenoTips.com

[hador_nyc]

I like this idea. It makes sense for a couple of reasons; one of which was not mentioned in the article. For one, solar generates the most power at the same time as peak demand. That means it competes with cost better. The second thing that I like about it is about transmission load and losses. By distributing the electric generation, and putting it right were some if not all of it will be used, you limit the amount of energy that must be shipped around through transmission lines. This has two tangible benefits. One, you lower the loss incurred by moving the power from the generation site to the usage site. That becomes more important at peak usage times which is the second benefit of this. Lowering the amount of power moved at peak times lowers the load on transmission lines at those times. That, in turn, makes the grid more reliable, and put less strain on it. Lower strain means that parts will last longer.

So, while a small test run of this size wont have a huge effect, it should have a noticeable one. I hope the numbers work out.


peak demand
lower transmission

[fredtheviking]

I hope the costs come down enough so homeowners themselves could own the panels. I thinking I would like to have a sustainable home in the future.

[rk2469]

The solar panel that is going to be installed by Duke Energy will cost $100 millions to produce 16 megawatts. [ Source: http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10033679-54.html ]

$100,000,000 produces 16,000 kw = $6,250 per kw.
This is far more than nuclear. by factor of 2 to 3. ($2,000 to $3,000)

Also, solar power isn't "renewable." These photo voltaic cells are environmental hazard. They have be disposed, and there is cost associated with it. Also, I assume that the total cost is partly covered by government "grants" or "subsidizes." Also, their generability diminishes as these photocells get old.

So, instead of individual paying for the actual electricity cost from the coal/nuclear/oil power plant at the market rate, they have someone else pay for the cost up front and they let users pay additional fee on top of that and call it economical, hiding the actual cost making the consumer feel good about using solar panel.

This is like a buying an environmentally friendly computers for $3,000 instead of $1,000. Force someone else pay for the $2,000 and make the consumers pay for $1,000. These consumers would have been fine with original regular $1,000. But for the low marginal benefit of unknown/known environmental safety they made someone else pay for $2,000. If someone earned $10 per hour, that person has to give up 100 hours or over 4 days of his life in order for someone else to have this environmentally friendly computer. What will populist/collectivest/socialists/communists minds of the past who are reincarnated as today's environmentalists force other people to give up their life/time that can never be recovered so they can feel good about their environmental purchase?

This is like buying an organic food for 3 times of the cost. This is like having roll of sushi (2oz actual tuna) for $12 when you can get the actual sushi grade sushi for $2 at the any high or low end supermarket. Making other people pay $10, 1 hour.

This is like buying $250 environmentally friendly jean instead of $50 comfortable jean from any local jean store at the mall. Make other people pay for $200, hiding the true cost. 20 hours or almost whole day.

The worst part is that people who buy into these things think that they are doing something when in actuality they are not doing anything... nothing, nada... zip...

Lot of people of answer to doing things and caring about things is... making other people pay for something that they think they are doing.... while they feel good about what they are consuming. their caring requires no action, no real cost, and no real adjustments to their life style. But they make other people pay for their none action... forcing other people to pay...

Isn't this great....

[fresma]

These arguments are fallacious and deceptive. The solar panels are an investment, by definition they do not have to pay for themselves right away.

Some benefits of solar generation of electricity (in addition to those mentioned by hador_nyc) are:
- from a global perspective, much lower carbon footprint than conventional power sources. Global warming is caused by human activity, and it will cost a lot less to prevent its effects by acting as soon as possible (including through the reduction of emissions, at some moderate cost), than to deal with it in the future.
- from the perspective of the utility, the cost ratio to conventional sources (currently at a factor of 2-3) will decrease over the lifetime of the photovoltaic cells. The utility is making an investment to offset expected cost increases for fossil fuels. The cost of a kWh of solar-generated power is never going to be higher than it is today.
- oil and uranium reserves are decreasing. The sun will still be shining for another ~5.5 billion years.
- from a strategic perspective, most reserves of conventional fuels are in the possession of non-democratic governments (Gulf states, Russia,...) and there is no guarantee of access (and of the price of those resources) in the future.

This is not about feeling good. It's about investing in energy security.

If anyone wants more information on global energy reserves, bp ("beyond petroleum") publishes yearly statistics (available freely on their website at bp.com). They are extremely illuminating...

[climberdude]

nukes pay for all their costs up front right? so that's why the good citizens of nevada are welcoming the storage of thousands of tons of radioactive waste, that will be a danger to people for so long that scientists had to devise new symbols to convey the hazard, long after english is forgotten.

i don't disagree with your point about solar subsidies; i just want all the subsidies accounted for.

[remyjovero]

"What will populist/collectivest/socialists/communists minds of the past who are reincarnated as today's environmentalists force other people to give up their life/time that can never be recovered so they can feel good about their environmental purchase?"

This can only come from an idiot!

[Manhattan2]

Terrible idea. Keep panels off of rooftops! This will never work, will never be the way to go. Look into a Solar Transfer before you let even someone else put panels on your roof.

[sailingsoul]

Will this be cost effective? Because it's a trial maybe the should install then on large area commercial flat roofs. reducing the number of locations, thus saving money. SS