Comments on: GM designer flashes photos of Chevy Volt

Head designer gives look at exterior styling of plug-in hybrid Chevy Volt, which is designed to be aerodynamic. The company is still targeting a late-2010 delivery.

[ecotony]

GM and the other big 3 have been sitting on their hands the last 10 years while other automakers around the world have pursued hybrid and electric technology. When the EV1 hit the road, GM had a winner first generation electric car. When they took those back, something strongly opposed by the drivers of the EV1, they sealed their fate. Their losses this year reflect their greed to make large profit margins with SUV's at the expense of the environment and our national security.
Hopefully these manufacturers will figure out that our economy and our country (and their bottom line) will benefit from them working toward electrics and hybrids.
Show me a plug-in hybrid that looks good, is priced reasonably, and drives well, and you will have me as a customer waiting at your dealership with cash in hand.

[ArtInvent]

These photos show basically nothing. More teasers to mollify the fact that this car is still over two years away.

[VIKINGMIKE]

You had better build an electrical power generating plant (probably coal fired), in your neighborhood to charge the batteries in your new electrical car. This country has neither the electrical generating capacity, nor the transmission and distribution grids to recharge a nation of battery operated cars.

[GRobLewis]

I don't remember details, but there was a scientifically credible study out a while ago claiming that there is enough off-peak capacity in the grid to handle recharging lots of electric cars. Just don't try it in Phoenix at 3:00 on a summer afternoon.

That said, we desperately need to start upgrading the grid with new, long-haul HVDC (high-voltage DC) lines.

[MattRoush]

Not necessarily true. Lots of DOE and utility studies are now under way on this issue, and current thinking is that electric cars can be recharged at night, when power demand falls, and that maybe their batteries can actually be used to supplement utility generation on hot summer afternoons, meaning we'd need to build fewer dirty power plants going forward.

[b_baggins]

No kidding. In 2004, the U.S. used around 600 gigawatts of power from gasoline in their automobiles. Even taking IC inefficiency into account, you still need to come up with around 290 gigawatts of power. That's the equivalent of 580 new coal fired power plants. Don't even try to tell me that "off peak" power exists in that quantity.

[robvme]

Uh, you are mistaken. We have plenty of capacity and the electrical generation required to charge the batteries is more than a little offset by zero emissions of an electric car. As far as the transmission and distribution, don't you have 110v sockets at your home? How about a solar panel to generate power for electricity? Your comment is really unfounded and not backed by any real facts.

[ppgreat]

If I didn't know better, I'd say this was a Malibu.

[MattRoush]

Martin -- as a CBS tech reporter in Detroit I thought I'd clue you in -- those seminars in Traverse City aren't just for GM, they're for the whole auto industry. They're sponsored by the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor. See www.cargroup.org and http://mbs.cargroup.org/.

[gsmiller88]

This looks nothing like the Malibu. The only remote similarities between the two is their grille, and that's only minimal at best and ALL car companies do this. From what I can see it looks like the Volt will be quite a beautiful car.

[gogreenwithct]

Vikingmike: You're right. The reason our electric power is so cheap is because we have capacity and we have had a good history of building and maintaining the grid. Throw on 100,000 full-electric cars in one year and we are all going to have rolling blackouts (not just for California anymore). Until we get a breakthrough in general engine technology, nothing will change very much from the way it is today.

What we need today is some real vision and technological breakthroughs - similar to those we have experienced in the computer field. The Volt will be a rich kid's toy that will drive up our electric bills as well as our gas bills. Until we get a real breakthrough in technology, we can only make a difference by conserving, changing our driving habits and installing products like the PPH60 Partial Plug-In Hybrid system (www.gogreenwithct.com)

[OSGOOOD]

CAN YOU STOP COMPLAING , WE WILL DEAL WITH THAT WHEN WE COME TO IT , 1. ITS NOT GOING TO BE 100.000 CARS ON ONE GRID AT ONE TIME , IT WILL BE A GRADULA PROCESS AND THEY WILL HAVE TO GET READY , WE MIGHT HAVE A YEAR OR 2 OF BAD SERVICE BUT THE PAY OFF WILL KICK A$$

[b_baggins]

Sigh. It's not engine technology, it's physics. It simply requires a certain amount of energy to move a mass X at a speed Y. For a typical automobile, it's about 38 kilowatts, with a peak power of 100 KW (for acceleration up to speed). You're just not going to get around that without making your cars out of tinfoil and saran wrap.

[b_baggins]

We're not complaining, we're grounded in reality. You can't get ONE new power plant approved today. It's going to take 580 to transition to an all electric american auto fleet.

Assume the transition takes 50 years. That's 11 new power plants per year to just meet the electrical demand. We haven't been able to get ONE approved in the last 20.

So, you've got to get the environmental strangle hold off of building new power plants. But if you're going to do that, why not get the stranglehold off of drilling for oil? It's a more efficient energy source than chemical batteries.

[provospain]

I can think of at least one powerplant that's been approved.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10017437-54.html
Just doens't happen to be coal or gas fired.

[keith vosburgh]

Plug in Hybrids seem like a great idea on the surface but as "gogreenwithct" points out, the grid margin is currently small with the current energy demand scenario. This presents challenges and opportunities to re-think the energy distribution puzzle. (Necessity is the mother of invention....)

Looking at the logic of centralized generation with a different set of constraints makes us think of distributed power generation coupled with smart grid demand management.

Current grid architecture can be optimized but at a large cost to add more capacity for all the vehicles we will plug into it. The other environmental costs which follow that action resulting from cheap coal to generate that energy and the transmission/distribution inefficiencies will make a difficult situation for us.

Distributed generation supplementing the increased demand of plugins with clean power needs to be implemented. In essence there are many solutions which can be integrated using system engineering practice....but the solutions must act in harmony from a macroscopic view. There are never magic bullet solutions in the real world, so put on your system engineering thinking caps. Big picture thinking will get it done.


Demand side control:
Vvehicles need to integrate as many clean efficiency measures including surface conformal thin film PV for charging batteries. Waste heat should be harvested and used. Make these vehicles place as little demand on the overloaded grid as possible by being at least partially self sufficient.

Energy Efficiency is the first step:
We can tackle our energy problems by increasing our overall efficient usage of energy which will free up some capacity and save money spent on energy. Efficiency measures avoids building more expensive power plants and delays grid improvements (which are sorely needed). Efficiency avoids cost and re-invents demand in a world of not so cheap energy.

[b_baggins]

Here's an even better idea. Store you power in liquid form and distribute it through a pipeline network.

Oh, wait. We already have that. It's called gasoline.

[kampms]

I don't disagree with anyone's comments about the state of the grid and potential impact of plug-ins on the overall electric supply, but I am optimistically expecting the commercial availability of plug-in hybrids to converge with that of thin-film residential solar shingles. I think the demographic group that will be willing and able to pay $30K+ for a Volt in 2011 will also be willing and able to shell out another $10 to $20K for a rooftop solar setup. In fact, I think there's a good business here for GM, Tesla, et al to sell the two products together. Call it the "energy independence package" and you'll have plenty of people ready to plunk down $50K or more to feel good about themselves for being supergreen and/or to feel patriotic for breaking their reliance on foreign oil and natural gas.

[douglord]

Are you willing to spend $50k for a non-luxury sub-compact ? Can you?

99% of people are purely economic beings. They will wax poetic about the environment, but they won't pay a dollar more then they have to to get a large and comfortable car.

I do a lot of work in the solar space, and you are WAY too optimistic on thin film solar being able to deliver enough power to run 2 cars (the average household in the US has 2 cars) with $20k of rooftop panels by 2011. If for no other reason then thin film solar is HORRIBLY inefficient interms of space and an rntire roof and backyard of panels won't cut it. On top of that it will cost $100k.

The only market for electric cars in the near future is the performance sector where people will pay $100k for a car with 3 second 0-60 and no range. This is EXACTLY what happened with GM's 1st electric car, all the hippies couldn't afford it, only the rich.

[Renegade Knight]

GM has the potential to do well. Heck Toyota patterned itself on what GM did right. GM should do the same. For the Volt get back to Chevy Roots. Make it easy to upgrade, tweak and modify. Plus make the basic Car Reliable as heck.

[BadGenius]

For a thorough exhibition of GM?s corporate stupidity (as well as others), I encourage everyone to see the DVD ?Who Killed the Electric Car??. In 1996, GM had a great forward thinking solution in the EV-1 electric vehicle and destroyed it, literally. The recent anouncement by GM that they have ?green-lighted? the electrically motivated Volt plug-in hybrid for a 2010 release, after already having produced and destroyed a commercially available electric vehicle twelve years ago, gives me absolutely no reason to feel sorry for them and their self inflicted economic troubles. Imagine the technological leadership position they would be in today had they continued to develop this and similar vehicles. They simply shot themselves in the foot and have the limp to prove it.

[streamline35]

Geez, the more I heard GM talk about the volt, the more I'm convinced tat everyone is just being built up for disappointment. Companies like GM are much more renowned for their marketing than they are for actually delivering on those promises with quailty produces (especially in the green department). Compare this to Toyota (and honda for that matter), who tend to be very tight lipped about their hybrids (we've barely heard anything about the next gen prius or the honda hybrid, even though they will be here next year), and when they released, they turn out great. It's a pretty striking contrast between them and GM

[FS1982!]

I'm personally looking forward to this product release. I like innovation and I like new thinking. Granted the EV1 debacle is quite the missed opportunity for GM where they literally could have had a huge majority of the market over the next couple years had they continued with the project. More than anything I am glad that America is really getting focused on this and changing our ways to quit funding terrorist nations that hate us. Strategically I wouldn't want to give money to someone trying to kill me. However pouring in the massive amounts of money then stopping over the next decade could have some major repercussions with those nations that hate us. Specifically if they are not doing a full fledged attack because they want our money what will happen when they do not get it? Something to think about. I do still think we should be independent of foreign nations for our energy consumption.

[BenFlavoredCandy]

I'm glad I'm finally seeing some intelligent and non-bashing comments on the Green Tech blog.

Many people have brought up the electric grid capacity, but more important is what is happening with electricity generation. From a lifecycle perspective, a plug-in hybrid, like the Volt, will actually have higher carbon emissions than a standard hybrid, like a Prius, UNLESS we have a low-carbon grid [ie renewables and carbon capture/sequestration]. Of course, this is based on national averages. If you live in Oregon and get your power from hydro, there is not much carbon associated with that.

Also, I am excited to see how the Volt turns out. A great new car is what GM needs to boost its image.

[bigmc6000]

The numbers don't really support that claim at all. Efficiency from coal is around 40% and efficiency from NG is about 50%. However, you are right about the grid. We can't move the entire country to electric cars without putting more electricity in the grid (and continuing to repair it). The only REAL choice is to expand nuclear and then, over time, replace coal and natural gas with wind, solar and (in some places) hydro. Nuclear is about the best solution we've got - we've got enough to last us, literally, thousands of year and we don't create a single ounce of carbon emissions for all of those worried about that because, ultimately, we're going to run out of coal and NG but the efficiency just isn't there yet for solar and wind (not to mention all the birds we're killing with the wind turbines).

[hsprader]

Great idea, but a very small group of consumers are going to shell out the estimated $40,000 for this car. For the Volt to be a hit like the Prius, it will have to be around the same price. My prediction, this car will doom GM into bankruptcy. Especially if the price is higher than $28,000, because they won't sell. You can buy the Prius, Golf TDI, Civic Hybrid for much less.

[somone_else]

I have to disagree with you if for no other reason than this:
The prius is an ugly car whereas the volt is a good looking car.

People will be willing to spend more money for a car that looks good. Ideally, they should still have it under 40,000, but they don't need to match the prius in price.

[bigmc6000]

I wouldn't say it's because of it's looks it's because it costs so much less to operate than any of the cars listed. If you drive less than 40 miles you don't burns a single ounce of gas. The prius would have to burn a gallon of gas to do that. Think about that in terms of your daily commute. That's, currently, $3 a day that you're saving (if you drive about 35 round trip). So, $90 a month or $1080 a year. Let's say you drive further than 40 miles - you save even more as the engine in the Volt gets BETTER fuel economy than the Prius even running off the engine. Basically, you're looking at $1k-$2k savings a year vs a Prius and, more importantly, it's over $1k less you're sending to foreign oil...

[tvphil]

In regards to the concern for overloading the power grid, here's something to consider. With the end of analog TV broadcasting coming in Feb. 2009, all of those megawatt analog TV transmitters will be shut off for good. That should help to some degree.

[rafalek2000]

I am tried of people saying "it will not sell". How about leaving it out in the market for more than 5 years (EV-1 never really got that chance) and observing the sale patterns.
Comparing the EV-1 from the 90's to the VOLT of 10's is like apples and oranges. The market appears to swing in GM favor.
That being said, if GM can not deliver on the 2010 promise, than the company will go under. It is sad how GM rolled out a car and pretty much claimed 40 mile Electric, but theres only one catch, "we dont have the technology right now" . Thats like building a prison without the bars. But hey, GM eases our concerns by showing off its automobile on a daily basis. Talk about a tease.

Everyone jumped on the E85 bandwagon couple years ago and it only took a year to figure out that Ethanol is not the answer. Although it might take longer, lets give E cars a chance.
I might not have the cash for the VOLT but I am looking at alternatives (TH!NK)

[megustansalchichas]

GM is La-a-a-a-a-me. As the biggest car company in the world in 1996 they could have kept going down the road of reserach with electric cars -as a product, they were no huge market shifting commodity when they came out, but imagine if GM had had the forethought to keep investing in the product line. They would have sold 100,000 'EV-n' s last year, as people shopping for new cars would have been dying for a prius competitor at a lower price, which GM could have achieved with that much R&D time. So don't shed crocodile tears for your lost SUV business Mr Wagoner, those suvs have already paid for the beach house and the ski chalet and the kids' college funds at the expense of being number two and costing lots of american workers their jobs.
Don't even worry about the electric resources required, I predict this rehash 1.0 electric car won't sell enough to affect squat. GM could have been on version 5 by now and had a really good electric car, then we could have been talking about where to generate all that needed power.
"the future? -oh that's for the dodos to think about"

[illegallydead]

The major problem for GM has a lot to do with the basic ideas of economics. Yes, the Volt will cost a lot. That is because it costs millions if not billions to convert existing plants to make this vehicle that is radically different from anything they make now. The downfall of this that the car will cost a lot to produce initially. Yet, with enough people actually wanting to make a difference to the environment (or just wanting to feel good about themselves, as is often the case), the Volt may see good sales, which will help it's price drop. As people have pointed out, had GM not dropped the EV-1, the problems I described here would be of the past.
As with a lot of the "green" trend, I have a feeling that the Volt is there almost completely so that GM can say "hey! look! we don't only make suburban's anymore" kind of thing. However, if they can actually get the vehicle working as well as promised, good for them, and hell, it might actually make a difference. I am yet to look heavily into what all the Volt is cracked up to be, but they have plenty of ways to make it as efficient as the new market demands. Let's start with carbon fiber body panels. As mentioned before, not cheap, but with economies of scale, carbon fiber could be as cheap as plastic with enough production. Second: gas turbine generator, instead of conventional gasoline engine. Lighter, simpler, and more efficient since it will only be charging the batteries (i.e. constant r.p.m., = Jet gold) Third, as people mentioned, green sources of energy generation for the plug-in aspect. Solar shingles would be great, again, if everyone would buy them and help drop the prices. Lastly, as with all vehicles: DON'T DRIVE IT LIKE AN IDIOT! Keep it slower on the highway, ease on the gas and brake instead of punching it from stop to stop.
What the heck. The Volt might actually do something. Might not. TIme will tell. (apparently we have plenty of that, if these ideas won't hit market until 2010. By that time, gas could be $10 a gallon, and president Obama-Hillary-McCain could already have us in Iran or something, though I suppose either of those would drive up damand for such a vehicle...)

[kfourog]

I had the Citicar (made in Florida) back in the 70's. I loved it, but...what doomed it as well as the demise of the EV-! was battery technology. Plain and simple. The lead-acid battery will not provide the energy pack needed for a practical electric car. The Lion battery is a significant advance in battery engineering, which is advancing a rapid pace.

The power grid and capacity is not a rational objection the the Electric Car. Millions of these vehicles will not hit the road in a short time span. The off-peak hours recharging will handle the load.

According to the Department of Transportaion, seventy percent of us drive less than forty miles per day, making the Volt a real alternative mode for our transport needs. I for one will have to add stabilizer to the generator fuel tank to extend the life of fuel.

I find the data on the Volt very impressive. This is not a Hybrid, but an all-electric drive car with an on-board Aux. Generator. I have been waiting for this for years.