Comments on: Hydrogen Road Tour rolls across America

Automakers, U.S. government agencies, and hydrogen advocates are sponsoring a coast-to-coast tour to show off hydrogen-powered vehicles in action.

[James Anderson Merritt]

I'm surprised not to see Mazda in the pack. Mazda has an RX-8 that switches the rotary engine between hydrogen and gasoline, like BMW's hydrogen/gasoline internal combustion car. Mazda has been leasing these things in Japan for several years. You'd think they could have spared one for such a great publicity stunt as the Hydrogen Road Tour. Alternative fuels need sports-car appeal, too!

[open-mind]

From the article: "Nuvera is first targeting the market for forklifts powered by hydrogen fuel cells. But hydrogen-powered passenger cars are about a decade away, said Roberto Cordaro, the company's president and CEO. "

Imagine that ... ten years away. Just like it was ten years ago. Just like everything else that sounds too good to be true. Color me skeptical.

Too bad the US government isn't helping promote battery-electric-drive vehicles which are viable now (see teslamotors.com and lionev.com as examples) and destined for mass production (by GM at least) within three years. It's almost like the big oil/energy companies (part of the "National Hydrogen Association") want to keep things as-is for as long as possible.

[b_baggins]

If battery-electric cars are viable, the government doesn't have to do anything, the market will demand them, and American entrepreneurs will provide them.

And give it a rest with the "super powerful big oil/energy" cabal. It just makes you sound ignorant.

By 2010 every major car manufacturer will be producing electric hybrids for sale. The geni is out the bag, sorry oil companies the days of you siphoning my wallet will soon be at an end. The idea that we need to go to a station for hydrogen fuel when we can plug in at home, give me a break. And its still way over the horizon. Hydrogen is just part of big Oil's stall game.

[b_baggins]

So, tell me, do you honestly think environmentalists will approve the 588 new coal fired power plants it will take to replace gasoline powered vehicles with electric vehicles? That's the amount of new power plants will be required to produce the electricity required for your new electric cars. Or do you think electricity just magically appears out of the ether?

[RyleeROBERTS]

Hydrogen vehicles are starting to move from the laboratory to the road. An Auto Journal has said that hydrogen has great potential as an environmentally clean energy fuel and as a way to reduce reliance on imported energy sources.One possible solution to eliminate refueling stations entirely.

[dzup]

We too have Hydrogen in our vehicles here in California, we make the HH2 Hydrogen Clean Air Devices, they create on demand Hydrogen from water in our mini fuel cell, about the size of a book. We clean the exhaust emissions and as a plus gain fuel economy, we have a CARB EO D-364, allowing us to install in any 1960 to 2008, gasoline or diesel passenger vehicles under 8000 pounds. Visit our website at:

www.HH2.US

and check us out. We fit existing cars, none of the auto makers make anything like it to retrofit existing customers cars.

Dr. Derek Z.

[pjk0]

Who is the bonehead who is saying "hydrogen cars are a decade away"? Honda is delivering cars NOW - albeit in limited quantities:

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/
http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=4651

bone head here...Honda is leasing only no plans to mass produce, as it costs too much for the average Joe to buy. When they announce mass production day, we will see. Does anyone here know the relative cost of hydrogen, before we get all excited...signing off bone head..

[b_baggins]

Bone head's friend.

Where's the power going to come from to make the hydrogen? Do you know how most hydrogen is made today? By cracking oil. Talk about stupid. Let's crack oil to make hydrogen which is more difficult to store and produces less energy than gasoline.

You want a smart energy plan? Invest in coal gassification (turning coal into gasoline). The U.S. has enough known coal deposits to power the United States for a couple of centuries.

[ferretboy88]

I can't wait for us to tell the Arabs to stick their oil up their *****.

bone head here...Honda is leasing only no plans to mass produce, as it costs too much for the average Joe to buy. When they announce mass production day, we will see. Does anyone here know the relative cost of hydrogen, before we get all excited...signing off bone head..

[itchief]

It will take 10 years for USA, Inc., the country formerly known as America, to create a corporate and regulatory infrastructure to make obscene profits from one of the components of water. Big Oil will not go softly into the night. Witness the ill-conceived attempt to turn corn, a commodity already used to feed livestock and humans, into fuel and the resulting price increases at the supermarket. Even the alchemists sought to turn something almost worthless (lead) into gold! With the proper equipment, hydrogen could be extracted from the tap water in your home. Enter fees, regulations, licenses and a plethora of other regulations and costs because hydrogen can be explosive and the average person is too stupid to separate it from water and fuel his car without blowing himself up! Perhaps in 10 years we will be paying outrageous bills to Big Water!

[benjaminstraight]

I am sure this will popular.

[DLAndre451]

@pjko: Our CEO, Roberto Cordaro, is certainly no bonehead. As someone already pointed out, Honda is leasing their FCV's in limited supply, much like Nuvera (Roberto's company) is also doing; check out this information on FIAT: http://www.nuvera.com/news/press_release-33.php. When Roberto said 10 years off, he meant mass commercialization and readily availably hydrogen. While we wait for the hydrogen infrastructure (which is on its way, check out this link: http://www.nuvera.com/blog/2008/08/14/recap-first-hydrogen-station-in-ma-unveiled/) to catch up, we are selling fuel cells and fuel processors to the material handling industry, a market that is ready for them today. New solutions are going to take time, money, and education of the public, and if all of us are really committed to changing the incumbent energy paradigm, shouldn't we be supportive of eachothers' efforts? Would you rather we DIDN'T work on a possible solution?

Danielle Andre
Nuvera Fuel Cells
www.nuvera.com/blog

[thesplintercell]

what else is new ? i was in australia back in 1997 they had this technology already you could opt to have your new car fitted with the hydrogen tank @ the dealer ! and you could switch between regular gasoline and hydrogen while driving.

this goes to show where the american public's interests have been for the past 11 years that 95% of gas stations across the country STILL do not offer this alternative fuel ! is it 2008 or am i in a coma or something ?

[albizzia]

The current cost of H2 fuel is $8 to $10 per Kg, and fuel cell vehicles get 47 to 75 miles per Kg. This results in a per mile fuel cost similar to gasoline cars. H2-IC engine cars like the BMW Hydrogen 7 and the Mazda H2 RX have a per mile H2 fuel cost twice that of gasoline. Plug-in cars, on the other hand, have a per mile electric cost about 1/5th the cost of gasoline!

The high cost of H2 storage and the absurdly high cost of H2 fuel cells is the main reason why H2 cars are not for sale, and won't be even 10 years from now. The high cost of H2 fuel and the lack of H2 refueling facilities are also major barriers to adoption. But the biggest obstacle that H2 proponents face is the much cheaper, more efficient plug-in vehicles available now. By the end of 2008, Tesla Motors alone will put more freeway capable EVs on the road than all the H2 vehicles from all the manufacturers put together! Ten years from now, plug-in cars will still be cheaper and more efficient and far more common than H2 cars, and recharging facilities will be everywhere. H2 cars are obsolete even before they're available.

The future is electric.

[john.pease]

Never in ten years seems very short sighted. Substitute transportation for automobile. This includes air planes, ships, trucks as well as automobiles. Hydrogen is the only fuel that when burned does not create carbon atmospheric pollution, which needs to be drastically reduced to prevent global warming.

The weight of batteries and need for frequent recharge are reasons why batteries don?t provide a viable solution in many transportation situations. Use of battery in planes, ships and large trucks is not practical. Building a hydrogen system for the nations transportation needs is a practical objective. While the future includes electricity, there is a need to look at energy as a system. Sources of electricity include clean sources, wind, hydrologic, sun and atomic energy or dirty Oil, coal and to a lesser extent natural gas. Use the clean technologies to create the hydrogen fuel is an important system consideration.