Comments on: American workers: Lazy or creative?

Salary.com's Bill Coleman sees value in Web surfing and other time "wasting" activities at work.

[lingsun]

Sounds like a bunch of lazy people making excuses for themselves

If people are paid by the hour, they should just WORK when they're at work or the company should fire them! 2 hours a week goofing off sounds like a lot more than I've seen in the midwest. But employees surfing the web when they should be working is a problem mostly with people in their 20s where I work.

The Workplace is not the same

The new generation, the creative class, is not time oriented, we
don't operate on hourly schedules, I may be producing a film, do
you think I start at 9 and just stop at 5? Absolutely not! We, the
Creative Class, are Goal oriented, make the new assessment of an
employee whether or not they get the project done, give them
deadlines and let them work it out how they can, because we are all
different, so forgive me if I check my email at work but end up
working a 12 hour or more day, or work even more once I leave
the office.

I find it ironic

Hey Bill,

I see you posted your comment at 9am. I hope you had today off (holiday) or do you usually post comments during the workday?

[lingsun]

Sounds like a bunch of lazy people making excuses for themselves

If people are paid by the hour, they should just WORK when they're at work or the company should fire them! 2 hours a week goofing off sounds like a lot more than I've seen in the midwest. But employees surfing the web when they should be working is a problem mostly with people in their 20s where I work.

The Workplace is not the same

The new generation, the creative class, is not time oriented, we
don't operate on hourly schedules, I may be producing a film, do
you think I start at 9 and just stop at 5? Absolutely not! We, the
Creative Class, are Goal oriented, make the new assessment of an
employee whether or not they get the project done, give them
deadlines and let them work it out how they can, because we are all
different, so forgive me if I check my email at work but end up
working a 12 hour or more day, or work even more once I leave
the office.

I find it ironic

Hey Bill,

I see you posted your comment at 9am. I hope you had today off (holiday) or do you usually post comments during the workday?

This is already well documented ...

... by Tom DeMarco and Timothy Lister in Peopleware. (ISBN 0-932633-43-9) Slack (ISBN 0-7679-0768-x) by DeMarco also covers this topic and says that employers should actively try to build more slack time into their knowledge worker's days.

[Sam Papelbon]

how about changing it to a 9-4

at least for goal-oriented workplaces. of course the hourly wages would be adjusted to compensate. but if employees are wasting time anyway while still maintaining the same level of productivity, why not just give them the hour to be spent out of the office.

probably isn't much, but i wonder how much a company could save having their lights/computers/etc off an extra hour each day.

or perhaps take the hour off the start of the day to have well-rested employees.

This is already well documented ...

... by Tom DeMarco and Timothy Lister in Peopleware. (ISBN 0-932633-43-9) Slack (ISBN 0-7679-0768-x) by DeMarco also covers this topic and says that employers should actively try to build more slack time into their knowledge worker's days.

[Sam Papelbon]

how about changing it to a 9-4

at least for goal-oriented workplaces. of course the hourly wages would be adjusted to compensate. but if employees are wasting time anyway while still maintaining the same level of productivity, why not just give them the hour to be spent out of the office.

probably isn't much, but i wonder how much a company could save having their lights/computers/etc off an extra hour each day.

or perhaps take the hour off the start of the day to have well-rested employees.

[Christopher Hall]

Oh, the irony

I'm reading this at work!

[aabcdefghij987654321]

not ironic, actually

thats not really ironic. its true.

[thedreaming]

so am I

In the morning, there isn't alot of work to do and they even know it, but they won't cut my hours, so I come in and surf the net until work is available. Sometimes, it's very busy and I just work and that's just fine with me. When I do surf, I'm always nervous about it because when it comes right down to it, I rather be working or at least be creative but with restrictive systems like the one we use, I can't even do that. It's either work or surf. There's just so many times I can read the news, weather and email. I can't do much of anything else.

[Christopher Hall]

Oh, the irony

I'm reading this at work!

[aabcdefghij987654321]

not ironic, actually

thats not really ironic. its true.

[thedreaming]

so am I

In the morning, there isn't alot of work to do and they even know it, but they won't cut my hours, so I come in and surf the net until work is available. Sometimes, it's very busy and I just work and that's just fine with me. When I do surf, I'm always nervous about it because when it comes right down to it, I rather be working or at least be creative but with restrictive systems like the one we use, I can't even do that. It's either work or surf. There's just so many times I can read the news, weather and email. I can't do much of anything else.

[Bob Brinkman]

Do they take in to account reactive positions?

My job is fixing things, occationaly I have projects to work on as well but if there isn' anything going wrong I am at my desk waiting for something to happen. Hense I have plenty of time to goof off.

[Bob Brinkman]

Do they take in to account reactive positions?

My job is fixing things, occationaly I have projects to work on as well but if there isn' anything going wrong I am at my desk waiting for something to happen. Hense I have plenty of time to goof off.

Resonable Expectations

Work hard or work smart, in the end all that matters is that an employee meets or exceeds expectations. How they achieve the result is largely irrelevant from my point of view.

[ehoberge]

taking money for hours not worked

if one can work hard and achieve his objective in less time perhaps it's time to clock out or ask for more work.

It's crappy and outright theft to give the impression one is working when he is not and to not be forthright about workload and take money for hours one hasn't actually worked.

on the other hand, if you are on the up and up and your employer doesn't mind it, then all is fair.

Resonable Expectations

Work hard or work smart, in the end all that matters is that an employee meets or exceeds expectations. How they achieve the result is largely irrelevant from my point of view.

[ehoberge]

taking money for hours not worked

if one can work hard and achieve his objective in less time perhaps it's time to clock out or ask for more work.

It's crappy and outright theft to give the impression one is working when he is not and to not be forthright about workload and take money for hours one hasn't actually worked.

on the other hand, if you are on the up and up and your employer doesn't mind it, then all is fair.

Two hour slackers???

Hmmmmm, guess I am missing the point in the question of why the surveyed workers seemed to be slacking the 2 plus hours a day. Could this group represent disgruntled workers that have had to take pay cuts, benefit reductions along with having the term multi-tasking & cross training used as a way of having employees do jobs that were normally done by 3 people? Loyalty has been lost between the employees and employers which produces lack of pride in ones job. Also the top to bottom model of how are the executives spending their workday?leaving early for a quick 18 holes on the green? My advices to employers? lead by example, talk is cheap.

Two hour slackers???

Hmmmmm, guess I am missing the point in the question of why the surveyed workers seemed to be slacking the 2 plus hours a day. Could this group represent disgruntled workers that have had to take pay cuts, benefit reductions along with having the term multi-tasking & cross training used as a way of having employees do jobs that were normally done by 3 people? Loyalty has been lost between the employees and employers which produces lack of pride in ones job. Also the top to bottom model of how are the executives spending their workday?leaving early for a quick 18 holes on the green? My advices to employers? lead by example, talk is cheap.

Thanks for noticing...

As computers have made me more productive, compressing 8-12 hours into 4-6 hours of effort, I require - No I have earned the opportunity to relax and be compensated for my efforts that exceed my typewriting predecessors!

Slackers should be fired, producers should be compensated even in trivial ways like using the work PC for personal biz, however Morons that abuse their LAN - Internet privileges should be managed and corrected sternly, possibly even fired for putting their businesses at risk.

XXOO

Dan the Man ? CISA, CISSP

Thanks for noticing...

As computers have made me more productive, compressing 8-12 hours into 4-6 hours of effort, I require - No I have earned the opportunity to relax and be compensated for my efforts that exceed my typewriting predecessors!

Slackers should be fired, producers should be compensated even in trivial ways like using the work PC for personal biz, however Morons that abuse their LAN - Internet privileges should be managed and corrected sternly, possibly even fired for putting their businesses at risk.

XXOO

Dan the Man ? CISA, CISSP

[ehoberge]

cell phones and the internet and visiting

after taking a break to work at home and raise children, I went back to work. I was shocked. I would calculate our best employees spend hours on their cell phone while performing their work, coming in late, leaving early, visiting--there was a time when an associate would never be caught dead being idle and now I see them--one in particular who shoots the breeze with the staff for an hour plus at a time. They take food breaks as often as they need to and if they eat at their desks they don't count that as a lunch break. People here have claimed over time on days I have calculated two hours in breaks alone. I have clocked the woman sitting next to me as being on the office phone all day long with personal calls and the one sitting next to her on her cell phone for two to three hours collectively during the day. And they are considered hard workers.

There isn't enough work for me to actually be here. I moved from a high volume firm to a practice which has one or two huge cases at a time. But if I had the work load, I wouldn't be on the internet now. I never take personal calls, I get my coffee, I answer his phone (the lady next to me told me her boss answers his own phone and does his own filing--he comes in on Sundays because no one can really ask her to do anything)

oh well

[ehoberge]

cell phones and the internet and visiting

after taking a break to work at home and raise children, I went back to work. I was shocked. I would calculate our best employees spend hours on their cell phone while performing their work, coming in late, leaving early, visiting--there was a time when an associate would never be caught dead being idle and now I see them--one in particular who shoots the breeze with the staff for an hour plus at a time. They take food breaks as often as they need to and if they eat at their desks they don't count that as a lunch break. People here have claimed over time on days I have calculated two hours in breaks alone. I have clocked the woman sitting next to me as being on the office phone all day long with personal calls and the one sitting next to her on her cell phone for two to three hours collectively during the day. And they are considered hard workers.

There isn't enough work for me to actually be here. I moved from a high volume firm to a practice which has one or two huge cases at a time. But if I had the work load, I wouldn't be on the internet now. I never take personal calls, I get my coffee, I answer his phone (the lady next to me told me her boss answers his own phone and does his own filing--he comes in on Sundays because no one can really ask her to do anything)

oh well

[johnsonlite]

I am an Industrial Engineering with over 17 years in manufacturing. This article misses some fundamental modern business concepts.

1.The article is obviously surveying non value add employees if they are at a desk job. In other words, he is not survey real workers. Workers are people who are on the assembly lines, fix transmissions, nail boards, or flip hamburgers. These people spend practically zero time on computers. There a few desk value add people such as programmers, order takers, or graphic designers.

2. Supply and demand. It is poor business to simply want workers working all the time. They need to be working efficiently producing a sell-able product or service. Just producing efficiently is not enough. Producing a bunched of cars that won't sell is why the US auto industry is drowning today. Producing product that is not needed or not desired is a management fault.

3. Efficiency. As an Industrial Engineer, I can tell you a work station that has 70% efficiency is considered good. Many US auto makers have processes that are designed with less than 50% efficiency. Toyota pushes for 70%. Most Americans do not understand the detail and discipline that goes into this thinking. My experience in old thinking manufacturing in the US is that the work is forced and pushed on the worker, instead of thinking out the work station design so the worker will work efficiently . This concept goes beyond the work station and out into connecting processes and suppliers. Further, I would not say the Japanese worker is a strong worker; how ever I would say that they tend to work in a well designed work area and work smart.

4. Fatigue. An 8 hour shift has about 7 hours of available work time. At 70%, a person has about 5 hours of solid work.. Go to the gym and walk on a tread mill for 5 strait hours.


I did not waste time at work to write this. I am unemployed. All the plants that I worked for are now in Mexico. The auto company I worked for no longer pays me so now I can not afford a new truck. mmm.
And they wonder why sells are down.