Comments on: What's wrong with the Java community process?

IBM's software chief Steve Mills says a more democratic standards process would be to everyone's benefit--even Sun.

[katamari]

If you talk the talk, walk the walk.

For a company so concerned about Java and "standards" and "supporting the consumer", I sure find it funny that their VM and SDK __only can be installed on IBM PCs__.

I guess Mills didn't do his homework...

[katamari]

If you talk the talk, walk the walk.

For a company so concerned about Java and "standards" and "supporting the consumer", I sure find it funny that their VM and SDK __only can be installed on IBM PCs__.

I guess Mills didn't do his homework...

[quasarstrider]

Eclipse is multi-platform.

http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/index.php

[quasarstrider]

Eclipse is multi-platform.

http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/index.php

[David Arbogast]

IBM Says....

The problem with Sun's property, is that we have absolutely no control over it.

Awwww... shucks.
Ain't that a bummer?

[David Arbogast]

IBM Says....

The problem with Sun's property, is that we have absolutely no control over it.

Awwww... shucks.
Ain't that a bummer?

[Bill Dautrive]

One set of hands on the steering wheel isn't a bad thing

I like java and use it for as much as I can. It is a far more elegant language then the syntax swamp that is C++, which became that way by committee. Last I heard the current C++ standards committee is looking to mess the core language up even more, by incororating the excellent Boost libraries. There is no need to do that, especially when they should be cleaning up the language.

If Sun would support compiling to machine language, and direct access to memory(keeping the safety nets unlike C/C++), I think Java would start to see some serious success. They have really made speed a non-issue in most standard apps and networking, to the point that Java can run as fast as a lot of C++ apps, although loading a large java app still is painfully slow. Allowing native compilation and direct memory/register access should fix any remaining speed issues. Third party java compilers that compile to machine code are hit and miss, mostly miss. Keep the JVM, especially for applets(they really don't need to get as unsecure as MS proprietary garbage), but for apps as well, but give an option for native compilation.

I think the worse thing Sun could do is completely open up its standards for a free for all. The language would soon become a fractured mess. Even scripting languages that embrace open source, like perl, are kept a tight reign by its creator and a few others, but anyone can add to the language through modules. Perl has gone far beyond it original intent, alot of that is due to 3rd party developers, but the core has remained a fairly small language that can be extending in countless directions at need.

Java can be extended by IBM all they want, but keep it out of the core standard. Any language needs a firm hand to keep it under control. Two competing corporations that profit from Java and can direct it is a recipie for disaster.

Even with Sun staying in control they are messing with the language a bit too much. With v1.5.0 they added the needless generic nonsense, but even with that, it is still a fairly clean language, and needs to stay that way.

[Bill Dautrive]

One set of hands on the steering wheel isn't a bad thing

I like java and use it for as much as I can. It is a far more elegant language then the syntax swamp that is C++, which became that way by committee. Last I heard the current C++ standards committee is looking to mess the core language up even more, by incororating the excellent Boost libraries. There is no need to do that, especially when they should be cleaning up the language.

If Sun would support compiling to machine language, and direct access to memory(keeping the safety nets unlike C/C++), I think Java would start to see some serious success. They have really made speed a non-issue in most standard apps and networking, to the point that Java can run as fast as a lot of C++ apps, although loading a large java app still is painfully slow. Allowing native compilation and direct memory/register access should fix any remaining speed issues. Third party java compilers that compile to machine code are hit and miss, mostly miss. Keep the JVM, especially for applets(they really don't need to get as unsecure as MS proprietary garbage), but for apps as well, but give an option for native compilation.

I think the worse thing Sun could do is completely open up its standards for a free for all. The language would soon become a fractured mess. Even scripting languages that embrace open source, like perl, are kept a tight reign by its creator and a few others, but anyone can add to the language through modules. Perl has gone far beyond it original intent, alot of that is due to 3rd party developers, but the core has remained a fairly small language that can be extending in countless directions at need.

Java can be extended by IBM all they want, but keep it out of the core standard. Any language needs a firm hand to keep it under control. Two competing corporations that profit from Java and can direct it is a recipie for disaster.

Even with Sun staying in control they are messing with the language a bit too much. With v1.5.0 they added the needless generic nonsense, but even with that, it is still a fairly clean language, and needs to stay that way.