Comments on: Does Microsoft's Bing have Google running scared?
Microsoft's rival search engine apparently has so upset Google co-founder Sergey Brin that he has top engineers working on "urgent upgrades," according to the New York Post.
Most Popular
15 sites that went kaput in 2009
Web sites launch all the time, but they also shut their doors. We highlight 15 that bit the dust this year.
Top 10 news stories of the decade
Let the debate begin: Was the iPhone more important than iTunes? Was anything bigger than Google finding a great business model? CNET offers its list of the 10 most important stories of the '00s.
About Microsoft
Stay up-to-date on news centered in Redmond, Wash., from acquisitions to product updates to leadership developments.
Add this feed to your online news reader
Microsoft topics
Can't wait for Apple and Nix Fanboys to comment on this!
Alex
Thats a funny way of putting it, but hey, I dont think its exaggerated at all!
Mac users love to say, Intel inside, idiot outside. Then Jobs switches the company to intel. All of the sudden, intel good IBM bad. Firewire best thing ever. Apple dumps it and moves to USB on the iPod. Leaving many customers behind. USB is better all of the sudden. Now they bring back FW. All of the sudden, yeah, we love FireWire. You guys seem to be sheep that like whatever Jobs tells you to like.
My Mac friends, all wanted OpenOffice for the Mac to compete with Microsoft. Instead you got this lame Pages app. All of the sudden, Pages rocks, OpenOffice bad, Microsoft word Bad.
You guys are amazing. I have never seen so many lemmings in my life.
Alex
At least you are correct about that.
What does Apple's switch to Intel (four year old news) have to do with the price of tea in China? USB is technically inferior to FireWire, always has been always will be. I never stopped being an advocate of superior technology. iWork does most everything for most people and does it more easily. You are trying to make a point that some people will be an advocate for something just because that's the popular thing to do. You need to turn your lens back on yourself and other Microsoft/Windows fans. Most Apple and Macintosh enthusiasts have, on the other hand supported the platform through thick and thin, even when most everyone was asking "when are they going out of business?" I've been an Apple enthusiast for many years because they have and had the best thing going in a lot of ways. Before Commodore went under, I was a Commodore Amiga enthusiast. Why? Because their systems were technically superior to both offerings from Apple and from the IBM/Microsoft camps. Don't underestimate or assume things about people. I know, I've been guilty of it too, but this asinine characterization of Apple users as disciples of Steve Jobs is ludicrous and insulting. I know of no-one personally that has just jumped on the bandwagon because the Apple star is on the rise again. I'm sure there are some out there that have, but they would be a tiny minority. Most people made a conscious decision, based on real experiences and weighed the pros and cons logically about switching.
Alternatively, it has been my direct observation of Windows fanatics, both professional and personal, that they have never even given Apple Macintoshes a chance, never even owned one. They go by what they've heard by other clueless people and the FUD ads by Microsoft and IBM over the past 25 years. The arguments against Macintoshes I hear are sometimes laughable. Half of these arguments haven't been true for 20 years, if ever. Open your mind and set aside your prejudices. I've tried every iteration of Windows from 3.1 to 7. I've found every one of them to be inferior in the realm of stability and usability to the contemporary Mac OS.
1. Intel chips have gotten a LOT better with the Core series. I'm very happy the Macs never used the Pentium 4's, and that we had PowerPCs during that era. However, IBM wasn't keeping pace and Apple saw the writing on the wall. They switched when the Core was announced, which were much better chips than the P4's. So I think the Mac folks had it right-- Intel sucked until they didn't.
2. FireWire-- yes, there's a place in most Apple fan's hearts for this Apple-invented bus. When Apple removed it from some MacBook Pros there was such an uproar that the next revision added the ports back again. But I see the writing on the wall here, too. eSATA is obviously going to replace Firewire for storage, and better USB chips are replacing it for streaming video, so its future is short. But it definitely WAS the best thing around for awhile.
3. Pages is interesting, but I haven't heard it compared directly against OpenOffice and Word much. Word still rules the business world, but since Pages is WAY cheaper and does a pretty reasonable job for home use, it's definitely got its place on a lot of systems. I have both on my laptop (got office for $20 through and agreement between my company and Microsoft), and they're utterly different applications. (And for what its worth, I tend to load Pages more than Word for the casual stuff, and Word more than Pages for the business stuff.)
4. Apple's history of failure in online services is long and renowned. Ever since AppleLink Personal Edition essentially spun off AOL then died Apple's been clueless here. eWorld, .Mac, MobileMe... I think the best you get from most Apple fans here is embarrassed silence. So I don't see them hopping on an Apple search engine bandwagon anytime soon. However, Spotlight is a pretty amazing search technology for the home and small office (it lets you index local file server contents so searches can span a LAN). I wonder what an Apple-Google pairup could do there. When it comes to bringing something to the desktop, no one beats Apple.
Apple fanboys actually hate that Apple is jerking us around with the "Maybe there'll be a tablet, wait for it... nope no tablet" and the "maybe the next mac will have blu-ray, wait for it.... nope, no blu-ray." It's starting to get pretty effing annoying. I hate how they tried to pawn off a SD card slot in place of the pci express card slot on the new 15" MBP and try to act like it was some kind of improvement.
Just thought you should know we're not all drinking the Cupertino Kool-Aid.
1. That's what I've been trying to get across. For the time, the Pentium 3 and Pentium 4 were not on par with G3, G4, and G5 chips being delivered. Independent tests confirmed it. However, the Core series: Core Duo and eventually Core 2 Duo have gotten very, very good. So "Intel sucked until they didn't" is a fair assessment.
2. As for Firewire, it's been a favourite of mine because it simply performs better. USB 2 might have a theoretical throughput of 480Mbps that looks better than FireWire400's 400Mbps, but in real use, FireWire is faster. And since non of my computers or external drives or peripherals have eSATA, Firewire, both 400 and 800 are my clear choice. It's technically superior to USB. USB requires CPU control, which FireWire takes care of in separate hardware. I'm curious to see what FireWire 3200 will bring to the table.
3. I've been much more productive with iWork than I ever have been with MS Office. Office is the be all to everyone application. There are things one can do with MS Office that you can't do with iWork or Open Office or whatever. I personally haven't found anything that I need to do that Open Office or iWork can't do. Keynote produces much better looking content for a fraction of the effort. Numbers is king at making really nice looking charts in just a few minutes of effort. That's not to say that PowerPoint and Excel can't do the same, but it takes far more effort and weeding through commands that 99% of us will never use. As for Pages, it's more of what we used to call a 'desktop publishing' application than a simple word processor. But, once again, most users, business or home, will do just fine with iWork. For the rare instances when you need something more "technical" Open Office usually fills the bill. I recommend Neo Office.
4. I agree, Apple has lost a lot of great opportunities for providing online content. I'm hoping the iWork online component takes off. If they keep it free, it will. All too often, providers get greedy and start charging for something that people can get for free elsewhere.
Apple's Spotlight works very, very well in Leopard. If Microsoft had something similar for their systems, it would make my life so much easier at work.
@amerist78
Agreed. No company is flawless and Apple has made its share of blunders. But all in all, they've been on a good path.
The fact is this. OpenOffice does everything most people need and it is free. That wins doesn't it? But no, because Apple didn't create it. For a long time Apple users wanted Apple to work with OpenOffice the way Apple took open source code and used it to jump-start the Safari browser. It was said that the same could be done to help move Open Office further. Sun wanted it. Apple customers wanted it. But Apple takes the lame as heck AppleWorks and rigged it into Pages and especially the first version was the most awful junk ever written. The later versions are better.
As soon as Pages came out, the double-standard from koolaid drinkers came out by the keg. Pages does what most of need. Please, that's such a bogus argument. Nissus Writer does most of what people need. word Pad does most of what people need. This isn't about what most need. It's about settling for less because Apple says so.
Safari isn't nearly as awesome as FireFox, but Apple made it so it's the best. Pages? Please, it's garbage. OpenOffice is by far the better application. And Microsoft doesn't even require you to be a student to use the Home and Student now. You just have to use it for non-professional use and you can get the suite for $89. You are going to tell me that Pages and Numbers best Word and Excel for $89? I don't think so.
If anything, our well known American brand-loyalty is what drives Apple. they don't make the best of anything. What they have are loyal customers. If you went for Bang for the buck, how could anything stand up to OpenOffice? and mind you, I use MS Office because I can buy it cheap on my home machine and be absolutely compatible with anything out there.
Why use Pages for somethings and Word for others? why have two word processors. If anything it shows how you "want" to like Pages, but "need" to have a real serious app for most things. Why not just have Word and be done with it? That's how I know a koolaid drinker. Some buy a Mac and run OSX, and then switch to Windows to do the serious things they can't do on the Mac. Why is Parallels so popular?
I myself tend to use that which can do it all. Word and Excel wins because if I use those two I don't need anything else. I won't have 3 word processors, I'll just have one.
Alex
Dude - speaking as someone who often speaks out in MS's defense when someone is trolling with anti-MS stuff it's usually nice to see an ally - rare, but nice.
Having said that, I encourage you to not resort to troll-like tactics yourself. Personal attacks never result in a meaningful conversation. In general, there was no need for a discussion on Bing to degenrate into an Apple vs. MS slugfest. I can at least understand it turning into an MS vs Google slugfest -- at least that might have some relevant points on either side of the discussion..
I have talked to a few friends regarding this as pretty much every friend who tries it likes it. The general answer to this is that perhaps too many people know how to rig a google placement. And at this time much of what Google shows is an engineered response. Engineers by marketers who understand how to rig their placement.
It's difficult to describe, but Bing feels like an honest result while Google feels like an engineered result. Maybe I am not even saying it right. It's a personal choice, but search after search I liked what I got from Bing. Even though I am using Chrome as my browser, Bing is my search tool of choice.
Got to hand it to Microsoft on this one. They actually got it right. Maybe the Zune HD will be a success too? Maybe Microsoft is finally finding their mojo again. They used to destroy all competitors, but lately that's not been the case at all. But Bing is very good. Of course you will have a lot of people who hate Microsoft for being too huge a company. But these days, I see Adobe as worse. I have less and less to object about with Microsoft these days. Office Home and Student is cheap. You can buy Windows 7 cheap when it arrives and it is pretty good. The Live apps are pretty nice. They have a few good assets going for them lately. Keep it up, I guess.
Alex
Alex
[CNET editor's note: Personal attack deleted.]
Personally, it seems like yet another search engine, and pretty much does exactly what Google does (after spamming me with an unnecessary photo downloads.) And to use it fully, you apparently need Silverblight.
Pass.
You just sound like a rabid Microsoft fanatic. You could have copied and pasted your post into an advertisement. It sounded an awful lot like those stupid Lauren commercials.
Don't count on an apology. Anyone that openly insults me is permanently on my you-know-what list.
So I assume you did the search and realized how wrong you are about me. But (you won't) admit when you make a mistake. You call me a shill you can expect me to call you an idiot. You can expect people will like a Microsoft product. They do sell you know. Obviously there are those that like them. So it stands to reason that one of these days someone might actually have something positive to say about a product they have.
I guess for you, you can't like a product from Microsoft no matter what. It just goes against the grain or something. How open minded of you. At least I am willing to give something a shot and judge it based on merit and not my image of the company. You couldn't do that if (you) tried.
Alex
[CNET editor's note: Personal attack deleted.]
I'm just making a point that I think they are on a role. I think Microsoft has been punched in the face so many times over the last 5 years that they have perhaps turned a corner. That's not being a shill.
Look, how many people like their xbox despite the red ring of death? You like Halo, or no? Did you see the great press the Zune HD got? I mentioned Office because it's typically very expensive. Look at Live. You have to admit that lately it does indeed seem like Microsoft is listening or is at least willing to listen.
Personally I think when you get knocked around in the press long enough you start to stop what you are doing and consider how to change. I tried Windows 7 out, lot's of people did. I tried it on a Via Based NetBook and to my surprise it worked really well. The Live Mail app feels like Outlook lite or something. and now Bing. I don't think it is terrible to mention all of this. You are going to see articles about it all soon enough. What do you think the whole windows 7 platform is going to be by default?
Look at Apple. You have OSX, Spotlight, iApps and that pretty much defines the platform, yes? And I think that's what Microsoft is doing. Windows 7, Live apps, Bing Search. They are getting their act together. Heaven forbid for me stating the obvious.
Alex
Microsoft seems to be committed to offering products that are once again superior to it's competition. If I was a new user and used Google and then tried Bing I would choose Bing. Bing improves in many areas of search. Better search, organization, more options, visually more pleasing, multi-media offerings much better. It puts a hurting on Google and that is a good thing because it will make Google do better.
Everybody wins when there is good competition. Now we have great companies doing great things, Google, Apple, Microsoft. I will give companies credit when they are doing well, and criticize them when they don't. Microsoft deserves credit with a great product, Bing.
AHHAHAHA. You wrote to tell me you have better things to do than to write to me. I think I have to frame that one on the wall. I couldn't make up stuff this funny!
You're a funny guy, kcotham. LOL.
Alex
Yes, Bing is fast. The search results still aren't as good for me. The filter still isn't smart (lumping all material together if there happens to be adult content anywhere in the search results and making you turn off the filter to view the SFW stuff). Plus, it took them a week to fix a problem that common sense should have shown them was there prior to release.
My problem with MS has never been the actual product idea, it's been the implementation of that idea.
Windows File System is vastly inferior to Linux.
MS Office is bloated and tries too hard to be everything to everyone.
Windows Live Messenger has its own breed of viruses and crashes more with the official client than any alternatives. (Official Windows Live Messenger vs. aMSN, meebo, pidgin, trillian, etc)
Silverlight caused more connectivity problems than Flash ever did and arguably cost Netflix and other sites customers.
IE has been and currently is still one of the most insecure browsers simply due to being so heavily tied into Windows. (won't change until the EU gets Windows 7 without it)
There are many more examples. None of the ideas were bad, they just lacked a certain common sense. The browser is not heavily tied into Linux or OS X yet both can view HTML as well as Windows. Both are able to use a fully functional Office Suite which does everything commonly necessary with less bloat than MS Office. Most Linux distros could fit in the RAM deemed necessary to run Vista at it's "full potential".
The guys at Redmond really need someone there to tell them when an idea is good but the implementation sucks. And when trying a standard out, learn how it's being used before trying to redefine it. (.ODF files)
I know right cause anyone who likes a Microsoft product must be paid right?
With 90% user base its wonder how Microsoft makes so much money I mean if they have to pay people to use it.
To be honest, "Bing" doesn't really have the depth or breadth of results that I like. It tries to decide for you what you want, without really knowing offhand. I suspect that, shills and trolls aside, this time next year will show the same pecking order as now: Google with the vast majority of search, Yahoo a distant second, and Microsoft an even more distant third.
And then I tried some other searches.
Even a blind monkey finds a banana once in a while. The more I used Bing, the more I saw the first hit was just lucky. They are about as good as Ask.com or Yahoo. Google has nothing to worry about.
As for the astroturfer's claims that Apple will try search, well, that's the kind of thing a hysterical hair-on-fire Apple-hater makes up out of thin air.
Google is good at giving you the quck and dirty, and Bing is for the more comprehensive results. Both have their places. Use each for what it is good for.
You can use Bing if you want to; I'm sticking with Expedia, via Google's priority listing.
What is fact is that Bing is not the first search engine from Microsoft and possibly not the last. I tried it, I liked it, but then I like my new broom too... Any industry commentator will take more time to see how Bing matures before making any comment on whether it will unseat Google or not.
As for Google, well, anytime something comes along from Microsoft I would expect them to sit up and take notice. For crying out loud, they are by far Google's biggest threat regardless whether or not Bing is successful.
I would ask, NYP, are there any real stories your tech journos have found from real sources?
http://blindsearch.fejus.com/
I do like the Bing experience though. In addition, its new, its fresh, and it (ironically) has some "under-dog" appeal. I could imaging this getting to 20% market share (North America) by then end of the year. I'm sure Google has is loyal legion of users, but there are plenty of people to who have no loyalty to Google, and will go with what they like best - certainly enough of these people to get Bing up to 20% usage.
Alex
Yeah those ads aspire to be almost as bad as those lame baby-music against white screen ads from that fruity company, huh? Does the four-and-a-half year old little girl who sends pictures of her fish, Dorothy, to her family upset you too?
Alex
Yeah, those Apple ads are so bad that they have everyone and their brother imitating them and parodying them. At least there is some humour in these ads. Those "bingathon" ads are simply idiotic.
You find the Apple ads funny, even though they are full of distortions and outright lies. But if anyone even remotely comes close to a distortion inflicted on your beloved platform, you go bananas.
Mind if I call you Mr. Standard? Mr. Double Standard?
Alex
Oh, first shill, now twerp.
kcotham, do you actually know how to communicate without calling folks you don't know a shill and a twerp? Just curious, what do you plan on calling me next?
Alex
Alex
There's only so many advertising agencies with the resources and capabilities of handling big accounts like that. Some campaigns work, some do not.
Besides, geeks aren't the target audience, so really what anyone here says is moot. It's what the general public perceives and then puts into action that counts.
Not any different than Google search wise. Ignore the bight colors Google generally sticks
to good basics and hence why I use it.
Can I have my Microsoft Check now?
http://creativebits.org/webdev/web_search_blind_test
I have Bing on my Safari bookmarks bar and use it as well as Google and other search engines.
I hadn't even heard of Bing until after the whole Live event was long over. Then when I wanted to go watch the videos of the event online, they have all been removed. What a great waste of money and resources.
Microsoft needs to get their marketing department out of the gutter if Windows 7 is going to be successful. My fellow co-workers are still calling it "Mojave".
Alex
Alex
Alex
I'll get my stop watch so we can time how long you last without replying this time.
Alex
"Windows is.... A 32-bit extension to a 16-bit graphical interface, sitting on an 8-bit operating system, originally written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company without ONE BIT of common sense."
Troll on.
As for Mac users being idiots: Pretty wide brush you're using. You're saying a technically proficient user couldn't take great advantage of UNIX-based OS X ?
When you've got millions of people using anything and you lump them all together you only clarify your own ignorance.
Alex
Alex
I'm sorry kcotham, but this is a free country. I can reply and you can reply. You just don't know when to apologize for being who you are, do you? See, I can ask stupid questions as well. But that's not really germane here is it. It is you who are injecting your ill will into comments after I have made them. You come into something after me, then complain that I respond.
Here's a concept for you kcotham. You apparently want to stick your opinion out there but don't like it when I respond to it. If you wish to call me names or put out an opinion for public debate, don't be shocked if I respond to it. That's what a forum is for. But since you said you couldn't care less, and that you had no time for this, how can there be a problem for you?
Alex
I used to be a big Apple fan (ran an office network using them back in the mid nineties... and they crashed frequently), but got really angry when S. Jobs crushed the Apple clone makers. He has modeled all Apple business lines on the premise that once he has a loyal following, he can milk them for every last penny. iTune users are complete bloody idiots paying a dollar a song when they can get the same music they want for as little as $15 a month on Rhapsody or Napster (with two kids and a wife downloading three to four full albums each a month, we must be saving over $100 a month with Rhapsody... and we can each carry those songs onto our Verizon phones ... no need for an MP3 player. I love reading about iPhone users who constantly ***** about their slow networks and dropped calls... AND they're paying a grand or more a year for music they could be getting for dimes on the dollar.
Alex
about time for a google update too
Hopefully Microsoft don't make a ding with Bing because Google knows how to work with other companies such as mine with their search tech, and Microsoft will only do what they did with Windows if they became dominant, i.e., take over everything and put everyone else out of business who remotely competes on the Web.
In a nutshell, you cannot trust Microsoft and Google have been quite beneficial for their thousands of partners up till now. To explain further, many perhaps most web sites that derive income from advertising display Google ads. This revenue means that many can create great web sites because they can be monetized. If it all went Microsoft's way, then they would take all the money for themselves and smaller sites would just die off. The result, a lesser Web if Microsoft were at the helm.
So please continue to succeed Google.
I think it shows that google is becoming arrogant with their own monopoly and would not be surprised to see google in Microsoft's "defensive" position in a few years.
That may be true, but no point in giving a company with a history of monopolistic abuse a chance to do it again.
So far Google have been pretty good and fair. Of course no one is perfect and they must have a few sins under their belt. But generally speaking if they were to become really abusive, then the competition is one click away and it wouldn't be in Google's long-term interest to abuse their power. Whereas Microsoft know that many are tied to their tech and cannot escape without a huge investment on a new platform. So Microsoft can get away with much more than Google can.
I read that article on Google and I have to say that I am not impressed with their behaviour in this case.
Maybe Google will become evil. I hope not, but if they do, I will boycott them like I do Microsoft.
But for now I will give them the benefit of the doubt. They have been pretty good most of the time.
- by Benigna-Marko June 14, 2009 1:14 PM PDT
- Alex has so much information on Bing. He should become a spokesperson for them. I am going to try Bing. Thank you for the information. Benigna Marko
- Like this Reply to this comment
-
-
- by Alex Alexzander June 14, 2009 1:25 PM PDT
- I have so much information on Bing huh? So you must have read something I wrote that even I don't know about. Care to backup your silly expletive?
- Like this
-
Showing 1 of 5 pages (183 Comments)Alex