Comments on: Microsoft wants refund from some laid-off workers
Software giant sends a letter to some of the 1,400 employees it laid off last month letting them know they were overcompensated and that it would like the money back.
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I tried win 7 and dumped it in an hour because I hate the UI.
Take that fanboyz!
I have seen first hand how a supposedly Vista capable laptop with a 30 second lag when shutting it down. Wondered why it didn't shut down, so decided to do something else and then it shut down when I was half way doing that. Skype was shaky and other problems, to many to mention here. I reluctantly wiped the disk and put XP and the Laptop was great from that day on. I wasn't a believer in how bad Vista was till I saw that. Since then I have seen other problems with Vista machines and a friend of mine who was having problems with XP rang Microsoft support and their answer was to buy Vista as that would sort all his problems out. What a joke. Bring on Android.
I've held three different jobs since I graduated from college, and I've had paycheck corrections due to accounting errors in two of them (and they never made the news, mind you). This isn't news -- it's an accounting error.
Worse -- the article could have had a more accurate headline -- "Microsoft overcompensated some laid off employees due to accounting error" or something like that. Putting the words "accounting error" in the headline is key. Without it, it looks like MS is just randomly trying to screw them. Typical sensationalist reporting.
All you 'it's so easy, it never gave me trouble, kissy kiss' kids could be NOT professional users. In fact, I say shame on you for making ignorant statements that may mislead others into buying Vista and suffering the consequences.
Man, I thought you'd have more sympathy for the employees who not only lost their jobs, but wound up having to literally pay Microsoft for the privilege...
...yet here you are making jokes. I guess you don't actually know the folks who got shafted, do you?
@dhaveleak:
" Worse -- the article could have had a more accurate headline -- "Microsoft overcompensated some laid off employees due to accounting error" or something like that. Putting the words "accounting error" in the headline is key. Without it, it looks like MS is just randomly trying to screw them. Typical sensationalist reporting."
Err, the kinda press you suggest wouldn't look too good in front of folks who are in turn looking into Peachtree (forgot what MSFT calls it now), would it? Either way MSFT ends up eating the bullet.
OTOH, it does happen. But seriously... for a company that is allegedly drowning in cash, you'd think that the HR folks would be smart enough to simply let the matter drop. I mean, it's bad enough to lose your job... now you have to reduce what savings you do have because some HR schmuck goofed.
I don't have love for MSFT's policies, strategies, engineering, or its attitude as a company. This much is obvious to anyone who reads my posts.
OTOH, I feel for the employees - it would positively suck to be jobless in Seattle, and now these folks not only have to pay the rent/mortgage there, without a job, but they're now in hock to their ex-employer as well.
If Ballmer has any brains, he'd simply (and publicly, as head of the company) forgive the overages before this story gets any traction.
/P
And for all you guys blasting microsoft, I hope next time you make a mistake and overpay someone they keep it.
Publicity-wise? Microsoft doesn't want this one spreading... it tends to put them in a bad light, and they'll end up losing more money in the end than they would have if they had simply forgiven their goofs.
You LIVE to badmouth Microsoft in any way possible. Tell me, have you ever had a positive thing to say.... *EVER*?
I mean really, do you actually spend every waking moment with your bigoted hatred driving your life or do you actually smile at a sight of a small child playing in a field? Do you have any joy in your life at all? Surely you can't be so obsessed as to dedicate your life to hating something so much. It's.... disturbing really.
Creepy.
Bashing a soulless company or always defending one?
As it is, what I wrote in this thread is not bashing MSFT per se, but stating a simple fact: they can either eat their mistake (which they should have done), or waste more precious time, money, and reputation than they lost initially, in cleaning up the mess they made by demanding money from laid-off people.
I'm thinking there's going to be a bit of additional unemployment once this blows over...
"He has no choice, pentest - he gets his own paycheck from Microsoft. Sucks that way, I guess."
Ah yes, when confronted with uncomfortable facts, you do what you do best.
YOU LIE.
I do not work for Microsoft, I have never worked for Microsoft, and you are completely wrong in your information. You have lied about this many times and no matter of correction has stopped you from spreading this misinformation intentionally.
Should I start saying that you are paid by Red Hat and Apple for making your comments here? No, of course not. That wouldn't be truthfuil, and when it comes right down to it, I simply do not lie here on CNET. You, however, do frequently for whatever reason you have.
Penguinisto- it's really a very simple thing to do- simply stop lying and tell the truth. Other people do it regularly- surely you can too.
But hey, if you can prove I work for Microsoft or are paid by them, PLEASE bring that evidence out into the public. I'm calling you out right now. Put up or shut up. Give out that proof. Don't hide behind a shield of lies. Tell everyone what your proof is. I mean, if I am supposed to be getting paid by Microsoft, I certainly would like to see those checks- I could use the money. :)
Go ahead. Prove it. Prove it now. Your repuation for honesty is dependant upon your next action.
Balmer does not have half the business skill Bill did.
Steve Ballmer has been CEO of Microsoft since 2000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ballmer
Check it out. Really. Theres a section in there that seems like someone just vandalized Wikipedia, but is actually true (I think...). Its under "Google."
It still sucks that a profitable company is laying off employees and furthering the recessing as a result which ultimatly hurts them worse.
Tell that to the bugs in the newer (2007) Excel that led to a whole range of numbers being "forgotten" because they screwed up the functions to change one format into another.
http://blogs.msdn.com/excel/archive/2007/09/25/calculation-issue-update.aspx
Admittedly, the Office team create more stable code.
But i still hate Project, i will always hate that thing... horrible GUI, and the Undo, where was that?! 1 level you say? Oh hell no.
Do you know if Microsoft is using Peachtree software for their accounting? You have made the accusation here- what evidence do you have to back up these accusations? Please either provide proof or admit you have no bloody clue what you are talking about.
I'm not holding my breath on this one, but I can pretty much predict what the answer will be. :)
Nope - I don't. I stated that Microsoft owns the product. Anything else is your assumption.
OTOH, let's explore this: between their ownership of Peachtree and their policy of "eating one's own dogfood" (their term, not mine), one can comfortably assume that they are, or else their "dogfooding" policy is mere hot air - so which is it, Dan?
Now, imagine a company decision-maker reading this article (or one like it), and thinking: "They use their own products according to them, but here's this really big accounting error that I'd never want my company to face. Why should I spend $$$$$$ on Peachtree again?"
...you get the idea.
Anyrate - you're in a better position to know what Microsoft uses for their internal accounting than the rest of us - maybe you can tell us?
/P
"OTOH, let's explore this: between their ownership of Peachtree and their policy of "eating one's own dogfood" (their term, not mine), one can comfortably assume that they are, or else their "dogfooding" policy is mere hot air - so which is it, Dan?"
I don't know myself. I don't work for Microsoft... do you? You seem to know an awful lot about their internal operations. I don't pretend to know what the company is doing. When I don't know something, I don't make things uip or spread lies. This is something you could learn yourself.
So... why are you intent on spreading lies about me working for Microsoft? Why do you so hate Microsoft that you would spread rumors intentionally? You do realize your posts are in violation of CNET policy?
I don't appreciate you spreading lies. This stops now.
Please, deny it, I'd love to read those denials after all this time.
Meanwhile, I noticed that you completely sidestepped everything else. How convenient. ;)
/P
I have never denied that I work for a contractor that makes its money by fixing mistakes by Microsoft. I make my money when Microsoft screws up.
As for sidestepping the issue- isn't that what you do each and every time someone here calls your bluff or when you get caught in telling a lie... like you did this time? You've become an expert at changing the subject when things get a little bit too close to the truth for you.
So.. no denial. Only the truth, the same truth I have always given. Why is it you have trouble with the same thing?
"OTOH, let's explore this: between their ownership of Peachtree and their policy of "eating one's own dogfood" (their term, not mine), one can comfortably assume that they are, or else their "dogfooding" policy is mere hot air - so which is it, Dan?
Now, imagine a company decision-maker reading this article (or one like it), and thinking: "They use their own products according to them, but here's this really big accounting error that I'd never want my company to face. Why should I spend $$$$$$ on Peachtree again?" "
Please address it ;)
There is a simple assumption, if you look at your bank account and you have a deposit you did not make? Well its most likely an error, if you say hah and spend it. Then you are liable at that point.
I guess here's the new Mac tagline, "put in whateve ryou want, we'll make it right"
And before anyone busts out the Fargo jokes, Fargo is home to some very large telecommunications and technology companies.
I am sure if you let an employee go, and you mistakenly over paid them a lot of money you would be crying a different tune
The issue is that recipients might not have known they were overpaid. A severance package is not something everyone has experience with, or understands, or has the ability to calculate to the penny to know what they are looking at and what it should be when they get it. Do you? Their severance payments may be structured in a way in which an overpayment may not be obvious because it's probably a different amount than simply adding up a set number of pay periods (tax with holding for one is complicated and changes with the lump amount). After all, Microsoft's payroll and accounting department, who's job is to do nothing but calculate payroll, screwed it up without catching it.
The insult to injury for the people who have lost their jobs and are having to pay it back is that they have bills to pay from that money. Many have to calculate their spending closely and many have already spent some, maybe even all of their severance on pure survival (kids in college, mortgages, car payments, medical bills, etc.). Now they are without an income and owe money to the company that just let them go. In essence, MS is adding to the hardship of the employees they just left jobless. This is more than just an "inconvenience." If you had just been laid off, were struggling for the survival of your family, and had your budgeting efforts with what money you have left (if any) screwed with by a giant corporation, what tune would you be singing? Heartless much?
What scumbags.
Just kidding, folks!
And, as previously suggested, isn't it a shame that MegaloSquirt hasn't offered to give refunds to Vista victims? And isn't it amusing that MegaloSquirt are CHARGING for 7ista considering that it is, for the most part, just a service pack patch job on Vista? Boohoo MS. This time your blunder bit you back.
Blackcomb was renamed Vienna in early 2006,[8] and again to Windows 7 in 2007.[3] In 2008, it was announced that Windows 7 would also be the official name of the operating system.[9][10] The first external release to select Microsoft partners came in January 2008 with Milestone 1 (build 6519).[11]"
Vista is actually a copy of Windows 7. LONGHORN (VISTA) BORROWED ELEMENTS FROM BLACKCOMB (WINDOWS 7). get your dam facts straight.
Either way, lots of people ain't happy at paying twice for one operating system (the broken and working versions). This is what's fuelling interest in Linux, even if it's broken at least no-one's laughing all the way to the bank with your money.
Now, if y'all'll excuse me, I'm off to get some popcorn. I want to see if Penguinisto and Vegaman_Dan finally declare their undying love for each other and get married in the third act.
That's funny - one of the big arguments against OSX and Linux often ran along the lines of having to learn something new... ;)
I have compiled my own graphical based linux distro. By myself with no help that boots perfectly, that I had never done before. How can you call me a moron and not willing to learn something new. Vista is a peice of crap all the way down to the kernel.
If you tried any other operating system like Ubuntu or Mac OS X Leopard (especially), you would wonder why you were dumb enough to pay for virus protection for a system that is virus-prone rather than get something that is virtually virus/spyware free. My mac prints with virtually any printer without having to download drivers, has more software than I will ever need, no bloating, is super secure. My Ubuntu laptop, ditto. It is absolutely awesome and the operating system and all of its software is free. Neither ever get viruses, or have security issues or spyware.
believe me, I hack in Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows. I have played with code. I know what I am talking about. WIndows is the crappiest of the three operating systems. That would be every Windows version Microsoft has put out.
And you Mac haters- You have no idea how good a Mac is until you get OS X Leopard. It's Unix based and much faster and friendlier than Windows.
Microsoft=sloppy code and sloppy accounting. What's new?
"Originally, a version of Windows codenamed Blackcomb was planned as the successor to Windows XP and Windows Server 2003. Major features were planned for Blackcomb, including an emphasis on searching and querying data and an advanced storage system named WinFS to enable such scenarios. Later, Blackcomb was delayed and an interim, minor release, codenamed "Longhorn" was announced for 2003.[7] By the middle of 2003, however, Longhorn had acquired some of the features originally intended for Blackcomb. After three major viruses exploited flaws in Windows operating systems within a short time period in 2003, Microsoft changed its development priorities, putting some of Longhorn's major development work on hold in order to develop new service packs for Windows XP and Windows Server 2003. Development of Longhorn (Windows Vista) was also "reset" in September 2004.
Blackcomb was renamed Vienna in early 2006,[8] and again to Windows 7 in 2007.[3] In 2008, it was announced that Windows 7 would also be the official name of the operating system.[9][10] The first external release to select Microsoft partners came in January 2008 with Milestone 1 (build 6519).[11]"
Vista is actually a copy of Windows 7. LONGHORN (VISTA) BORROWED ELEMENTS FROM BLACKCOMB (WINDOWS 7). get your dam facts straight.
I don't think Microsoft is the insensitive one here...
Find one, and we'll see.
Show me someone who was overcompensated, and then we'll see.
OTOH, we have a big, fat image of a letter showing an example of over-compensation.
Ball's in your court, pal.
Find one, and we'll see.
Hey Penguinisto, That would probably be all of them! lol. By the way, "Pinguinisto" smacks of Linux. Are you a Linux user? If so, you are one of the smart ones.
"I use a little bit of everything :) "
Uh huh. Tell us more. :)
The article reads "but it did indicate that some laid off employees were also undercompensated. "
There is a huge difference between "May have been" and "Did indicate"
"We?re also hearing that some employees _may have been_ underpaid as well." (emphasis mine).
You were saying?
1) a detailed breakdown of how the initial payout calculations were made,
2) how MS recalculated the payout,
3) why some ex-employees received underpayments and they ended up with an alleged overpayment,
4) and why do they now feel confident the recalculations are correct if they didn't calculate the initial payment correctly in the first place.
Seems fair to me. I don't think it's asking too much for an honest, competent company to do. I sure most LAWYERS looking into this would probably ask the same questions. Indubitably, right?
How does a laid-off ordinary guy find and pay for a lawyer willing to squabble over even a few thousand bucks?
I think the above suggestions are great. What would really be nice is a detailed explanation of how they are calculating severances, because the formula is dirt simple. And it is almost impossible to understand why there are so many errors. And just for the record, the errors are HUGE, not just rounding errors.
It's called Small Claims Court. There's also plenty of lawyers that would like to take on such a case as it's an easy slam dunk solution.
Grade: C-
1) Pro Bono corporate contract lawyers are about as rare as virgins at day six of a week-long orgy.
2) someone who just got laid-off isn't going to see much benefit of paying a lawyer when he or she is already severely short on income.
3) even a small-claims case takes a few months to get scheduled, and requires fees. In the meanwhile, MSFT gets to hand their end of it over to a debt collection agency, who in turn will play havoc on the poor bastard's credit rating, phone line, mailbox...
/P
.
You're absolutely right. It's just when someone blatantly lies, spreads misinformation, and goes out of their way to misrepresent the comments of other people, I tend to take exception to that.
I have this issue with people telling the truth. Penguinisto doesn't- he is perfectly happy with lying for his own personal reasons. It's an ethics issue that he sees nothing wrong with.
But in the end it doesn't matter. Anyone who reads Penguinisto's comments with all the respect and credit he has earned.
So prove the lie. That's all you have to do.
Show us lawyers in the Seattle area that are willing to take on contract law Pro-Bono, and willing to take on Microsoft. Prove that small-claims court is a rapid process that costs nothing for the litigant. Prove that Microsoft wouldn't just hand off the debt to a collection agency.
It's all right there - you claim that I lie and mis-represent, all you would have to do to 'dispel' it is to provide proof that it is a "lie" or an attempt to "misrepresent".
You can do that, right?
/P
You claim that I work directly for Microsoft and that I am paid by Microsoft.
This is not true, and has been discounted many times.
You then changed your story saying that I was a contractor- which is correct, but it was an attempt to cover up the earlier lie. You went out of your way to post as many times as possible that I was paid by Microsoft.
You claim to not own, use, work on, or support any Microsoft products. Yet you also claim to have a Windows machine you mess with, have an Xbox, and now state you teach now or have taught in the past MCSE courses.
You claim on another site that you own an iPhone, then post in another that you don't have one but planned to claim you did in order to 'tweak' iPhone users and mess with their minds. You even bragged about it.
You claimed to have worked for a major book publisher that was solely responsible for the conversion of thousands of workstations from Windows to Linux across several continents, were the sole admin of this vast network, and had saved the company millions. And yet when I researched who this company was, I found out it was a small children's book publisher in Oregon and when I called them, they knew of you, but nothing of these job duties, these thousands of workstations, or even these other publishing locations across the planet. When I pointed this out, you had the posting removed from CNET. Funnjy how that is- when the truth comes out, you got scared.
If you really want the actual text evidence, just type "Penguinisto" and "lie" in any search engine box. I frankly don't have the time to do it, and this comment text box simply isn't big enough to list all the times before it cuts off.
You've lied so often that it is no longer possible to trust anything you say. People aren't nearly as stupid as you may think they are- they can see and read your comments and put it all together.
And that's it. Your reputaiton is what you have made it. You'll have to live with the results.
Now are you going to address the issue, or are you going to stomp your feet and whine?
(BTW - you sidestepped the issue - again).
Surely the cost to MS in terms of publicity and public perception would outweigh the monetary benefits. Oh wait, that would only apply if MS had and goodwill among the computing universe at large.
- by Inconnux February 22, 2009 12:07 AM PST
- Talk about kicking someone when they're down... I would respond, "sorry, you gave me the check, so its too late now..." If they didn't like it, they could hire a lawyer to try to get it back. This just seems petty and EVIL.
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- by rapier1 February 22, 2009 9:54 PM PST
- As a note, this happened to me once. The left the university that I was working for and they double paid me for the banked PTO days. I was pretty happy about it and did what anyone would have done in that situation. I spent it. A month later I got a letter saying I needed to pay the money back. Obviously I was upset and pissed off. They made the mistake why should *I* be the one to suffer for it? Of course, the problem was that it wasn't *my* money. I hadn't earned it. I had no claim on that money whatsoever aside from the fact that I had already spent it. As such I had no choice but to pay it back - the fact that they made a mistake didn't give me the right to profit from it.
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- by kevsmail February 23, 2009 4:27 PM PST
- Would you tell your bank the same thing if they accidentally deposited money into your account and they didn't realize it until a month later? You would lose that fight.
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Showing 1 of 6 pages (272 Comments)And really, they will come after you with lawyers and you will lose. Trust me on that.