Comments on: Church of Scientology responds to Internet attacks
Response doesn't directly comment on group called "Anonymous" or the denial-of-service attacks on the church's Web sites.
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With millions, if not thousands, of devout worshippers, the Church of the FSM is widely considered a legitimate religion, even by its opponents - mostly fundamentalist Christians, who have accepted that our God has larger balls than theirs.
Some claim that the church is purely a thought experiment, satire, illustrating that Intelligent Design is not science, but rather a pseudoscience manufactured by Christians to push Creationism into public schools. These people are mistaken. The Church of FSM is real, totally legit, and backed by hard science. Anything that comes across as humor or satire is purely coincidental.
http://www.venganza.org/
Then I looked a little closer at Anonymous and at other related sites, especially one called www.encyclopediadramatica.com/PROJECT_CHANOLOGY
I was most disturbed to find a very strong undercurrent of extremist anti-semitism running through this whole "movement"; especially in the latter site, which has a whole hate page devoted to Jews, which repeatedly refers to them in the basest variety of stereotypical Neo-Nazi style terms and pokes casual fun at the Holocaust, in which six million people died.
Sure - "something" needs to be done about the CoS - it's a brainwashing cult which destroys lives and families; but this is not the way and these are not the people to do it and no - I am not a Scientologist.
Other than that however, they believe most of the same theories of Scientology(Well except for the ones the COS tried to sue them to death over).
and behave very similar, except without the supression.
Notice that Anonymous has no problem with them.
a lot of propaganda from the Church of Scientology (oops, was
that a copyright violation?) claiming that "Psychiatry is bogus
science," that it kills, etc. etc.
Something that seems to slip through the cracks a lot: a largely
Scientology funded investigation caused the FDA to blackbox
SSRI antidepressents in 2004. Largely due to concern over an
alleged "increase in suicidality", the church demanded warnings
be placed on the boxes. Consequently, doctors stopped
prescribing these drugs to their ill patients.
So what was the result? Children died because of Scientology's
lobbying. The FDA has since admitted to making a mistake once
data surfaced that there was a direct correllation between
doctors no longer willing to prescribe anti-depressants and
depressed children committing and completing suicide.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?
storyId=14210126
And no data to prove a chemical imbalance? Have you ever
heard of a PET scan? What about MRIs or blood tests? Do these
people even READ the news, or do they make it up as they go
along? I would suggest the latter, as a recent anti-psychiatry
video surfacing showing Tom Cruise losing his mind scrolled a
list of anti-depressents, among them "methadone" (not an SSRI,
used to treat heroin addiction) and Ambien (a popular sleep aid,
classified as a hypnotic.)
As a final note: if Scientology saves lives, then why did my
friend end up taking her own because Scientologist influenced
groups convinced her to go off of medication? Could it be
because she had a quantifiable illness that needed to be treated
and was being treated until these liars and criminals convinced
her otherwise? Probably.
Please note that it is not the ideas of the church that the civilized world finds offensive (We find your ideas silly, however many people have silly ideas). It is your methods and the damage your organization does both to its members and to those who voice opinions that conflict with your rather silly ideas.
Psychologists do a great deal of good for a great many people. Psychologists believe that their first obligation is to do no harm. If treating a patient will not render the patient better off, the doctor will not treat the patient.
Psychologists believe in a minimalistic approach to medicine. If you can treat the patient just through talk, that is the best. If you must use drugs, use the least powerful drugs you can, and use them in the smallest doses.
Psychologists respect a patients right to walk away. Only a patient who is an immediate threat to themselves or others can be held against their own will. If a patient stats they want to leave because they want to kill themselves or someone else the doctor can hold them (but only with a court order). Even if the patient is being held involuntarily they have the right to refuse treatment (any good doctor will risk his or her own life to respect this right).
Psychology is a science. treatments are subject to double blind studies. When a doctor is determining the safety and effectiveness of a new treatment, neither the doctor administering the treatment, the patient nor the doctor supervising the study know if the treatment is the new one or a placebo. They cant lie to themselves and pretend something works when it does not. Does the CoS have double blind studies to test the effects of their methods?
Scientologists have many wrong ideas about psychology. Some of them were true 100 years ago. None are true today. If you are a Scientologist I would recommend that you talk to a psychologist.
dominant superstition in Western culture. Once people were put in
jail for offending the state religions, but they are not jailed for
being "mentally ill." Psychiatry, not religion, is the primary means
of maintaining social conformity, and the Scientologists are
heretics. Burn the witches!
If one or two of you will agree to read this book, I will read Dianetics.
If you agree to my challenge, we should book mark this page, and discuss both books in a week or two.
Have fun!
If you are a member of Cos, you would be far better off presenting evidence that refutes the claims of Anonymous. Please present evidence from a non CoS source. Please try not to use a Tautology for your argument.
I look forward to a logical and rational presentation from you.
http://www.partyvan.info/index.php/Project_Chanology
http://partyvan.info.nyud.net/index.php/Project_Chanology
Learn to hack like a pro:
http://www.metasploit.com/confs/blackhat2007/tactical_paper.pdf
BackTrack3: Super Hardcore pentest distro!:
http://www.remote-exploit.org/backtrack_download.html
Besides does anyone know where Al-Qaeda computer network even is?
Perhaps it Just Sigapore testing the defences to to improve the security.
Who knows?
(No, I'm not going to tell you where.)
found something that has made his life better, and he wants to
share it with others. The whole point of the book Battlefield
Earth is the misery of one group forcing another to accept
certain ways of being. I don't think Tom Cruise or any other
Scientologist is interested in forcing anyone to accept
Scientology. What I am saying is, if you've got a guy who is
trying honestly to make the world a better place, then give him a
break. I work with sex offenders for a living, and I can assure
you that there are people out there we ought to be a lot more
concerned with than Mr. Cruise. Is Tom Cruise crazy? Who
knows and so what if he is; he makes great movies and
contributes to our culture in a positive way, good for him!
How was it official? Was it recognized by the government? Maybe it's related to the "athiest religion"?
Plan B Buld up governments and power bases and oppress the world for a couple of 1000 years more until were ready.
Perhaps we'll call it the second resisonce when were ready.
who totally do!
So what?
:)
It was formed as a bet between Ellison, Heinlein and EllRon, to see who could set up a 'religion' and see how many sheeple would flock to them.
Dianetics: know why Dianetics stayed on the top 100 best sellers list? Because Scientologists would buy them from one branch of a book store, and then return it to a different one. How do I know this? Because I personally witnessed it. A group of them came into on W********ks and bought the books, raving at how wonderful they were, and how they could change my life etc etc. I just politely nodded and rang up their purchases. I was filling in at that store. I went back to the W********ks I usually worked at, and lo and behold, I watched this group of people trickle in over 2 days and return the books for refunds.
Here is why they stayed on the top 100 list.... W********ks only records what books are sold. The ones that are returned aren't. They are typically counted as store loss/damaged and destroyed. And the CoS knew this. Seems that other bookstores in the same area had the same store policy. Doesn't sound like much, but multiply that over several books stores in all 50 states.
Dealing with this cult in any direct method is nearly impossible. They possess massive fanancial reserves and use it quite effectively to perpetuate lawsuits and other forms of intimidation (both legal and illegal) against their detractors. To attempt any open conflict with the CoS is dangerous and foolhardy. What CoS does is the modern equivilent of accusing people of witchcraft, devil-worshipping and heresy. Ruining peoples' lives through litigation, trumped up charges, insidious smear tactics, outright threats and lies. They have no qualms against ruthlessly engaging those that they label as SP's (Suppressed Persons). They wholeheartedly believe that the ends justify the means. Thus, the campaign that Anonymous has begun is completely justified. The methods that Anon is employing are the only logical choice given the alternatives and the ineveitable outcomes that would follow them. Men such as Martin Luther and Huldrych Zwingli were accused of criminal behavior for going against a medieval Catholic church rife with corruption. To be perfectly honest, some of the methods employed by reformers and detractors such as they, were less than ethical. Anonymous has stated they are not acting against individual believers of Scientology. But rather are opposed to the corrupt and villainous organization that is the Church of Scientology. So long as they maintain that stance; that they are not opposing a belief or faith, but a dangerous and aggressive organization, they will have my support.
- A little diplomacy
- by Durendal February 10, 2008 3:28 AM PST
- If I understand what I have read here, the attacks on the Church of Scientology?s website are not because of the ideas or beliefs of the Church, but because the Church (not the religion) is believed to be a bad and corrupt organization. But, if crashing someone?s website is an illegal thing to do, then it is wrong to do it, and those who crash the Church?s site because they feel they are protecting other people from the Church are vigilantes. They should not be allowed to crash the Church?s website. It is a violation of the Scientologists first amendment rights just as it would be a violation of anyone else?s rights if someone crashed their website. Vigilante actions destabilizes an enlightened society based on laws and is therefore wrong. However, what Scientologists need to understand is that this is a pluralistic, enlightened society, and attempts by the Church to silence critics is an even bigger threat to our enlightened society. In this pluralistic society, the more the Church harasses its critics the more it will be met with an ever growing public outcry and outright hostility.
- Like this Reply to this comment
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Showing 2 of 2 pages (129 Comments)Scientologists must understand that open, active disagreement with, or ridicule of the Church or the religion is not persecution. It is just open disagreement. Critics of Scientology must understand that crashing a website in order to prevent proselytizing is persecution and a violation of first amendment rights.
Atheists, Christians, Scientologists, please let each other speak and be polite and respectful of each other, even if you don?t respect each other?s ideas. Otherwise, you?re not civilized and you are all creating a society which probably none of you want.
And for God?s sake people, use your spell-check!