Comments on: I'm from Microsoft. Here's how we crush bones

The move to offer a free consumer security suite fits with a playbook Microsoft has used with great effect for most of the last two decades.

[neovader]

I think a lot of people also forget that back in DOS/Windows days, microsoft actually provided a free DOS and Windows version of antivirus software. So they used to have it built in almost from the start, and dropped it. I'm thinking it was DOS 6.0 and Windows 3.1. Surprised nobody ever mentions this when questions about Microsoft's AV software comes up.

[sythara]

Are you sure about that? I don't recall it ever coming with the OS or Windows.

[neovader]

Here's some sources that discuss Microsoft Antivirus

Wikipedia: MSAV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Antivirus

Microsoft Support: MSAVW
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/97953/en-us

[rcrusoe]

I remember MS-DOS used to include AV. Can't recall any version of Windows including it. In any event, I think this is a good move on Microsoft's part. Why should consumers have to pay to fix Microsoft's problems?

Way to go, Redmond.

[sythara]

Oh wow, I vaguely remember something like that. I used fprot when anti virus was needed so thats why I couldnt recall. Thank you for reminding me of the good ol' days!

[iamjp180]

Excuse me, when did Microsoft incoporate Word Processors and Spell Checkers into the OS?

Are you confusing Microsoft Word with Microsoft Windows?

The stone age? Ever heard of Microsoft Office? The thing lots of people still buy?

[karpenterskids]

Yeah, Microsoft Office doesn't come with Windows...at least I know MINE didn't...


However, congrats to MS for offering free anti-virus/malware as part of the OS...it's a huge leap in the right direction.
I'm sick of buying computers that have 15-or-30-day-trials of Symantec antivirus on it, and then hound me about my trial expiring until I erase it from my hard drive.

And besides...Microsoft MAKES the operating system...if it's susceptible to viruses, it makes sense that the maker of the OS would be the one to keep it virus-free, not third parties.

[solitare_pax]

Oh sure - Microsoft Windows comes with the Notes under Accessories for word processing. Twice as powerful as what came with MS-DOS I imagine. At least it doesn't have that flaming paperclip showing up and naggling you about what you're writing.

[rwm72]

To: karpenterskids: Good points! The only worry I have is where you say, "Microsoft MAKES the operating system ...if it's susceptible to viruses, it makes sense that the maker of the OS would be the one to keep it virus-free, not third parties".

This is great in theory and I am not suggesting anything against MS... but... in Defence organisations, countermeasures to missiles are mostly made by the same manufacturer as the missiles themselves! This may not be relevant on the surface to this topic, but effectively these organisations have doubled their markets as they provide the weapons and the countermeasures to their products. If you buy one, then you need the other. Which always makes buyers wary on whether performance of one may be hobbled to stay close to the other. Buy one, you have to buy the other. Third parties often drive innovation, and are not driven by dual agendas, and so should be supported for their often fresh approach.

I am not saying MS is following the Defence model, and I like their decisons re: Anitvirus in this article, but it makes me wonder... In defence of MS, making it a free download means less expenditure, so a shrewd business move.

[incendy]

Next time I would research or at least think before you write things down.

[bartszyszka]

I'm a Mac user and hate almost everything Microsoft does, but I think they should have a right to protect their own operating system from viruses and build tools to do that into their own OS. Just because a market was created from a hole that Microsoft left open doesn't mean they're required to keep that hole open forever.

I'm tired of hearing from Windows users who are afraid of installing anything on their computer while having a million programs in their system tray that put every in lock-down.

[dynesh]

I'm a windows user, and I hate everything Apple does. Just wanted to even things out a little. How come I have to tell Itunes twice a month that I don't want to upgrade, and I will never, ever want their crappy browser, yet it won't let me take that option off. I have taken ituneshelper.exe out of my startup so many times, I've lost count, yet itunes always puts it and quicktime back. I don't won't them running, but Apple knows what is best for me and does everything it can to thwart my wishes. This is my experience with one Apple program. God forbid I bought a whole (overpriced) computer.

Feels good to get that out.

Also they have the most dishonest commercials I've ever seen. Funny, but lies.

[sythara]

Have you ever even used a PC? Ever?

In any case, with your logic here it means that auto makers need to sell car insurance along with their vehicles, after all they need to ensure your car is protected against collisions, theft, etc.

Oh and most of the viruses as we know them today are not viruses but spyware/ simple trojans. A virus by its basic defenition is an appending program that embeds itself within an executable (hopefully someone still remembers this). This no longer happens, in case you didnt know.

Why not go out and get free software that protects your computer. Spybot, and few others do a really good job, and they are all free.

Oh and hi I'm a PC user who uses Windows and Linux and I dispise apple users who think they are the hot $*it for paying 3 grand for something I can buy off newegg for $599.

[The_Decider]

MS needs to make a more secure OS, not bloat it with third rate AV software.

[Penguinisto]

Cripes... why can't they just focus on building a better OS?

Seriously - no other operating system vendor out there has or gives away A/V software just to plug the holes that its parent product seems to be riddled with.

OTOH, I can't seem to muster any love for the likes of Symantec... they seemed a bit too vulture-ish, profiting off of others' misery to make a living (and watching system resources go down that great big hole their products create can't be fun either...)


BTW - there are some rather capable basic word processors that arrive for free with OSX, or are downloadable... MS Office's only reason for its continued existence has more to do with the massive pile of legacy proprietary document formats (.doc, .xls, etc) than for any reason of merit... so yeah, Charlie is right on that point.

/P

[smilin:)]

"Cripes... why can't they just focus on building a better OS?"

They did. Do you realize how difficult it is to crack into Vista remotely? Lets be objective and not fanboy each other (not saying YOU will, but someone will come along). Vista/2008 are incredibly secure. IE Protected mode, ASLR, Bitlocker, WFAS, ets. It's a tank.

However, there is nothing MS can do to prevent some user from saying, "Sure, go ahead and elevate to admin and install that software...click!"

The hole is not in the OS. It's between the user's ears.

Apples have been very lucky in this regard. Why aren't there rampant Viruses for Apple? They have a pretty secure OS, but not invulnerable (a fair statement I hope you'll agree). For arguments sake lets say it IS an invulnerable OS. They still have the 'hole between the user's ear's' vulnerability. You can't attribute all malware and viruses to defects in the OS.

Apple is still benefiting in this regard from it's relatively low market share. I hope Apple users are watching and learning from the malware struggle and not just watching and laughing...otherwise the wakeup call is going to be a 'blaster'.

[a85]

Office does not continue to exist only because of legacy formats. What are you smoking? Go to any medium to large size organisation and they'll tell you so. As for home users, most people want the functionality, reliability and familiarity of office. Plus, the fact that the people who made it will support it.

[Maccess]

Anyone using legacy MS Office formats would be using OpenOffice.org right now, considering the poor support for legacy formats of the latest MS Office version.

[Penguinisto]

@: "They did. Do you realize how difficult it is to crack into Vista remotely?"

More difficult than Windows XP, still less difficult than its competition. Problem is, well - let's use your analogy - they spent time and treasure building a protective shell, but its still squishy and rather soft inside. IOW, the internal design itself is still flawed... and an even better analogy is that they took a straw hut and covered it in iron plating - the internal frame sags under the load (hence the heavy hardware requirements). What they need to do is what Apple did to OSX - cast aside the obsolete architecture and harden it from the inside out.

"The hole is not in the OS. It's between the user's ears."

...and that's part of the reason why they need to do it.

--

@ "Apple is still benefiting in this regard from it's relatively low market share." - Sorry, but that argument doesn't really fly... millions upon millions of heterogeneous machines, ripe for the taking? Also, you would think that the same percentage of Apple users would be afflicted with malware that you find among Windows users... yet that isn't the case at all.

--

@ "Office does not continue to exist only because of legacy formats."

Then perhaps you can tell us why Microsoft won't open the file specifications for its legacy formats? What business justification can you give for spending $150-$600 a seat on something that --90% of the time-- only opens .doc and .xls files?

--

/P

[pmfjoe]

1) MS Office is not FREE. Unless you call $150 to $600+ free!

2) There are alot of other companies offering free antivirus software, AVG, Clam AV, and many more none have yet to push Symantec, Mcaffee, Trend, Kaspersky or any others out of the retail market or put them out of business. If MS manages to do this it will take alot of time.

[a85]

1) It's called WordPad.

[Penguinisto]

@a85:

WordPad native files are not compatible, nor portable, nor can they read/write .doc files.

[sythara]

its called OpenOffice.

[john55440]

I'm frugal but paranoid (grin), so I would be willing to pay for something that's significantly superior to Microsoft's antimalware offering. I imagine that Symantec, etc., will have to both lower their prices and improve/expand their products.

I suspect that Microsoft is correct when they say that "a majority of consumers around the world do not have up-to-date antivirus, antispyware and antimalware protection." That's a Bad Thing that needs to be corrected, one way or another.

[sythara]

Yeah, consumers need to get off their @$$ and find means of protecting their computer. If they don't know how, and don't know anyone who can help them (or know how to visit billions tech help forums out there) then they don't need to be using a computer.

[Vurk]

Microsoft, given their history of software performance, would be the *last* person I would expect to create a worthwhile anti-virus system.

[RickRussellTX]

Indeed, given that they already tried to buy an external third-party product, relabel it as a Microsoft product, then utterly failed to keep it up to date (that is, Windows Onecare, routinely near the bottom in AV comparisons) suggests that it will be even harder for them to maintain a free product.

I mean, if you're the commercial company chosen by Microsoft to provide this free product, how hard are you going to work after the contract is signed? They can put performance requirements into the contract all they want, but that didn't work with Onecare, and it's not going to work here.

[rjduwors]

Yeah JT knew when to bug out while the bonus was good. Outsourced his own IT department in a stunning demonstration of lack of interest to be responsible for what his own customers have to do on daily basis. But while Symantec had its own genuine IT department, very few of the technically savvy IT folks would put SAV on their own systems - lord knows what buggy update would get pushed down Live Update (aka Deadly Update) and performance generally sucked. Instead freeware AV dominated. So you know what - free Anti-Virus of decent quality has been around for quite a while. It is a marketing weirdness that anybody kept paying for it. Microsoft did not create the free AV market, it just joined it. Hard to stick the monopoly label on a thriving freeware environment. In facts, it's a meaningless term.

[steve merball]

microsoft? security? rotflmfao, stop it, you're killing me.

penguins will dance on balmer's carcass.

[AppleSuxLeo]

Apple makes ****-poor software. Just look at Safari , Mobile Me , Quicksand , iSpoons and all the rest. Never anything Apple on my PC , that`s for DAMN SURE.

[Maccess]

Leo: The article is about Microsoft

[Thomas, David]

Don't worry about AppleSuxLeo, he's just the clown in the back of the classroom. I'd make another comparison but it wouldn't be fair to people with mental handicaps.

[sythara]

@ Thomas, David

lol, nice one

[Maccess]

"Neither will it force anyone to use the application." Hmm... I have to uncheck the Windows Defender Box every time I run Microsoft Update. It's always helpfully checked to install. When I do forget, it's a multi-step process to uninstall it.

[sythara]

Windows Defender is still around?

[jCounsel]

I hate to reply to these types of "I am right" comments, but I think IT gets to continue operating with Word not because it is best or because of ROI, not because there is nothing else available....

You get the idea.

OpenOffice has been used in my firm (8 people) for the past 5 years. The firm I was with previously didn't "trust" a company that was "giving" away a free "product." Of course, I think they "saw the light" when Massachusetts adopted the format (and OpenOffice, on the side) since that firm was IN Mass....

My firm uses old formats, new formats, drop-down text boxes, and we have NO problem with formats. There are other free alternatives if you need more "conversions."

Enterprise uses Word, etc. not because it is cost effective, etc. but because they are "afraid" of having to retrain, etc. their staff to use a "new" and "different" product. I hate to break it to everyone, but OpenOffice runs just fine and has not let me down once.

I take that to the bank every day.

Just because others can't see what is "right in front of them" and continue to use "Office" and similar products does not mean the "others" are less functional.

Competition is good, however. Imagine if the "paid" versions went out of business. The "free" versions might bet more difficult to install, etc. since much of the "funding" with some of these firms (not oppenoffice in my opinion) is on support for the OSS. Not so "open" if I have to hire them to install, configure, etc...

[sythara]

I completely agree. The only reason I use M$ Office is because I had the option of purchasing it for $19.99 under Gov't employee home use deal.

I still use OpenOffice though. I find it much easier to use and for some reason it feels faster.

[a5a49708]

I'm a PC user. I have never had the opportunity to try a MAC. I have a lot of production apps rather than creative ones, which Windows handles really well. I have changed most of the Windows software offerings to others, however. I replaced Windows Media with Winamp because I like it better. I disposed of Outlook Express for Thunderbird, and I prefer Firefox to Internet Explorer. I shut down the Windows Firewall as I greatly prefer Symantec's Norton Internet. I also prefer Word Perfect to MS Word and found Quattro Pro to have much less of a learning curve. I have also found that the Open Office spreadsheet would do certain things that neither of the other two would do.

I had to replace all of my peripherals and some of my software for the XP forced change, and have refused to go through the same expense and aggravation for Vista. It is a duty of an OS provider to ensure that third party apps and hardware providers have the time and information to develop drivers. Microsoft doesn't care about that.

I resent being told that I need a Malicious Software Removal Tool, or Windows Defender. Some of their security junk and hotfixes have made games and applications unusable for no good reason. I don't trust the Windows firewall for a minute, and the letters are coming off my Microsoft ergonomic keyboard.

So, having said all that, it will be a very cold day in Hades before I allow a Microsoft anti-virus product on my precious computer! Greed is bad enough without incompetence.