Comments on: Your papers please: TSA bans ID-less flight

Passengers refusing to show ID will no longer be able to fly, but those who say they have lost or forgotten their proof of identity will be able to fly.

[Pete Bardo]

"Passengers who lie and claim to have lost or forgotten their proof of identity will still be able to fly." What about people who tell the truth about it?

I agree, in part, that this is sick. Next I'll need id to walk the streets!

[sal-magnone]

Please show me in the constitution where is says that you cannot be required to identify yourself when you step onto private property. Now the TSB may be a government entity but American Airlines is a private company.

[umbrae]

So those that are deceitful get to fly with extra hassle, but those that wish to make a scene and stand up for their right to fly without an ID are refused. How can this not be a target on our freedom of speech/expression? What terrorist would want to draw attention to themselves by "refusing" to provide ID? In almost all cases, I would say that would actually have an ID to present since either case draws unwanted attention.

I swear our government is brain-dead or using this just to hassle out-spoken, loyal citizens.

[sanenazok]

I read through your "research" paper, not too surprised it didn't get published anywhere. Your one sentence summary is exactly what the paper says. Next, you should research how the government isn't competent. Big surprise, it's easy to avoid security check points. Doing nothing isn't any better.

[sal-magnone]

"Of course, all of this is premised on the idea that the no-fly list is actually a useful safety tool - something that I, and a number of other prominent security experts strongly disagree with. Simply put, terrorists do not pre-register their intent." - SO, wanted posters aren't useful? And it's just as safe to allow known or suspected problems to fly as to not? Even 05% improvement in safety is better than 0%.

[Dalkorian]

It's chilling to think you can be that ignorant (or is it stupid?) and still vote. Think nazi germany, you're directly advocating the U.S. take up where they left off. So you think that because you SUSPECT someone MIGHT be a problem, that's enough to bar them from legal activities? You really think that giving up freedoms for a marginal increase in safety (which is seriously debatable) is worthwhile? Let's do some thinking, OK? You're all good with the TSA, you show your ID and get a cavity search like a good lemming, so now you're safe right? But the next guy, who printed his ticket at home, "forgot" his ID. He's not trying to cause problems, he freely identifies himself and subjects himself to a more thorough cavity search before boarding the same plane you're on. The difference is he lied to the TSA, he's really a terrorist (gasp! a lying terrorist! naw, couldn't happen right?) and his explosive is tied to a string that's tied to a back tooth and swallowed (ever heard this trick before?). Now tell me, how "safe" are you really? Does that marginal improvement mean anything now that your corpse is scattered over a 10 mile radius? There is a very famous quote from one of our most respected forefathers (Ben Franklin) that you should familiarize yourself with. If you can't find it yourself (try Google), then please stay home in November.

[KipEsquire]

While I am totally sympathetic, you are unfortunately misreading the TSA release:
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"This change will apply exclusively to individuals that simply refuse to provide any identification or assist transportation security officers in ascertaining their identity."
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That "or assist" part makes quite a bit of difference. "Passengers who refuse to show ID, citing the rights" still will be accommodated if they "assist transportation security officers in ascertaining their identity."
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This is similar to the Fourth Amendment case law on ID, which is also widely misunderstood by the lay public. You have every right not to carry ID, but you do not have the right to withhold your identity from law enforcement if they have a legitimate reason for knowing it (e.g., because you've been lawfully arrested).
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The TSA is merely clarifying that, "you have no right to fly anonymously," not that "you no longer have the right to invoke your right to fly without ID." They're two different things.
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If you have a problem with the former (what TSA is saying) as well as the latter (what you think TSA is saying), then more power to you. But your "To clarify:" paragraph is just flat-out incorrect.

[Lerianis]

The problem is that usually when police ask for your ID, they HAVE NO LEGITIMATE REASON TO ASK FOR YOUR ID. I.E. they have no reason to think you have committed a crime, no reason to think you are wanted, etc.

Frankly, when you have been hassled by the police just for walking through a public park and playing with the children there (as I have by the police) you might realize that most of these things are NOT done to protect us, but so that some people can lord their power over us.

[Dalkorian]

"This change will apply exclusively to individuals that simply refuse to provide any identification or assist transportation security officers in ascertaining their identity."
So, this "change" only "applies" to "people" who "assert" their Constitutional rights and refuse to lie about it. I know how much safer I feel understanding that. I agree with another commenter that hitler is smiling in hell right now. Papers please.

[Solaris_User]

Essentially what the TSA is saying is you are no longer allowed to protest, because anyone refusing to show the TSA ID is doing so in protest.

...Welcome to Soviet America comrade, enjoy your stay.

[deadteck]

Wow!! Good thing the gov't is looking out for us we might be over ran by terrorists with bombs strapped to their chests, who can only tell the truth. Way to go guys, America is safe once again.

[Solaris_User]

Also, when did the TSA decide that they get to choose when a persons 4th amendment rights apply and when they do not?

The TSA being that they are federal police should not be allowed to search anyone, for any thing, at any time, without a court issued search warrant. If we want to search passengers for airlines then let Delta and TWA do it as part of your ticket agreement. If they do it then it is 100% constitutional.

When are the American people going to get off their ass and stop this? How bad will it get before people stand up?

[Lerianis]

Very bad. Most Americans today are extremely lazy and think "if it improves my personal safety by even .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% it is worth it!"
They are STUPID that way, and I seriously feel like slapping them silly every time they say that, but that is the pretty much consensus view today.

[RainCaster]

ID is such a joke to the TSA. The photo on my drivers license could be a picture of Mother Theresa and nobody would ever stop me- as long as the name matches that on the boarding pass. The TSA is a great place to work for those who cannot handle all the mental gymnastics it takes at the Post Office.

If authentication was this bad on any computer network, it would be shut down and the administrators fired.

[zanely]

Let's face it, how many terrorists have we caught at these security checkpoints? Zero. Not even one single dummy of a terrorist. After five years of taking off our shoes, removing all our belts and putting up with delays. After five years of spending a gazillion bucks on bomb-sniffing hardware and x-ray machines we have caught not one terrorist. It's all Bush, "We're protecting America," B.S. And, no, it's not a deterrent. Any determined wacko with evil intent can slide right through all the Disneyland TSA security anytime they want, and everyone knows it.

[Lerianis]

You are absolutely right. We have caught no terrorists by doing any of these things.

We need to realize that NONE OF THESE THINGS are a deterrent to terrorists, not even capital murder trials with the possibility of death.

The only thing that will get rid of terrorists is when we get rid of religion, stop allowing people to think that they have the right to dictate to other people what they do and when they do it, and start realizing that INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS triumph over all.

[Dalkorian]

"Let's face it, how many terrorists have we caught at these security checkpoints? Zero. Not even one single dummy of a terrorist."
It's worse than that, the TSA has been tested by having people with good intentions try to slip things past security and they haven't even been catching THAT! You hit the nail on the head, this is nothing more than political theater so that repukes can claim to have made us safer, when in fact we're in more danger than at any other point in our rather short history. It's all nothing more than bushit.

[thatchrisguy]

@zanely: And let's not forget how many explosives, etc. that TSA has been able to sneak past its own checkpoints in tests (and that poor guy who got through the checkpoint with a gun, went back to declare it, and wound up in jail).

In general, I have no problem with the security screening process. But when you're forced to deal with egotistical, insecure and generally miserable mother-effers, who believe that they have limitless power, it makes for an experience that exceeds annoying - especially when it doesn't work.

This whole "Freedom 2.0" thing is really not so much. Thanks, King W!

[miscregcnet]

This article says, "In December 2007, TSA began testing (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13739_3-9918813-46)a secure, authenticated, tamper-proof boarding pass scheme. It has since been rolled out to a number of major airports around the country." According to the article photo ID is required. How does this apply to the new TSA rules if a person is allowed to claim they lost their ID and thereby gain entry?

There's something bizarre about this whole issue. Hypothetical - suppose John Doe purchases an e-ticket using his own or stolen ID, then gives the ticket to Bob Doe who claims to TSA that he forgot his ID. TSA may not require photo ID that he (Bob) is the person noted on the e-ticket but will "require additional screening". Would they permit Bob's check-in of luggage without showing photo ID?

Hopefully, the "additional screening" would somehow require absolute proof that the bearer of the e-ticket is the person named on the e-ticket.

[George Orwellian]

This is no less than internal passports to travel.

Perhaps it is a moot point given that we are nearing the end of consumer passenger class airplane tickets.

We are building our own "electronic bird cage", including the US DOT's ITS or Intelligent Transportation Structure.

The E-ZPass transponder (NY/NJ/PA) was chosen (little known fact) because it has R/W memory, not just read-only. And your transponder means that your car is now a "probe."

E-ZPass Transponder

What is the re-writeable memory good for? For having the driver identify themselves to the transponder. That will probably involve a swipe of your license to accomplish. This will first be rolled out in commercial vehicles.

Speaking of which, Homeland Security has begun rolling out a shutdown gizmo for buses in case they go terrorist.

RemoteShutdown

--
Natural State Research

[chambcm]

You people are morons. What is the big deal about showing an ID to board a plane? This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[OsaBLadn]

yea, what's the big deal.

[ziwcam--2008]

"What is the big deal about showing an ID to walk down the street? This is the dumbest thing I've ever read."

There are millions of dead Jews who would disagree.

[TV James]

Or, it just prevents you from being an ****** to the security guards. It's a big "duh" that someone can easily say "Uh... I forgot my wallet." But you're already taking a far less combative tone than "I refuse to comply..."

Stop being a jerk. Our airport security is still far less secure than we'd like, but YOUR theatrics are just a distraction from those doing their job, however unempowered or insecure the end result is, you only make it worse.

[willdryden]

I don't fly inside of the U. S. anymore anyway. I refuse to let my checked baggage go on unlocked. Go Greyhound.

[OsaBLadn]

Yes...yes very good. You must provide ID on streets, for riding bikes, for talking, for cooking, for sleeping, everything...yes very good. Only in America! And don't forget, it must be a government issued valid ID...yes, good! This is your future, make the walls higher, make everything secure. We have made it so for you! Now it's your job to fulfill it.
You have our full support!!!

[rx8volution]

This is almost a joke - let me talk through my logic (assuming, of course, the mindset of a terrorist):

1) I can now print my boarding pass online (and modify it as I please)
2) I can say I "lost" my ID so I don't have to show it...

Wow, given #1 and #2, how the hell do you know who's on the plane? Worse, how do you know ANYTHING about them? Doesn't this render "no-fly" lists completely obsolete?

[vgraybeard]

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. Benjamin Franklin

[Sol999]

Congratulations Amerika, you are one step closer to totalitarianism! Tonight Hitler is smiling with pride in hell.