Version: 2008

Comments on: ISO: Office Open XML ratified as standard

The Microsoft-backed file formats are now an official standard, despite objections from those who feared that the status would give Redmond yet more market power.

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OOXML is complicated, but it does work
by michael_o April 2, 2008 4:33 AM PDT
It's complex -- I just finished my first OOXML application that includes a "Save to PowerPoint" feature ( www.boscreateware.com/ManageCanvases.php" ) -- that application is a Flash RIA w/ a PHP wrapper -- that is, LAMP+Flash. No MS tools involved at all. Working with the OOXML was awful, especially to make a Power Point (.pptx), but in all fairness it was effective: it works.
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Really ?
by Aepervius April 2, 2008 6:20 AM PDT
So when you do make your word-equivalent with OOXML, care to tell us how you will implement "spacing as word 95" ? Or the sheeninagan with date ?
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Millions and millions of votes
by rmva April 2, 2008 4:49 AM PDT
The millions and millions of people who already purchased Office 2007 voted with their wallets. If the ISO rejected it, what governments, other than the EU, would have the balls to tell their citizens to stop using it?
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Huh?
by FellowConspirator April 2, 2008 5:05 AM PDT
I'm not sure that people buy Office for their XML format, they
aren't the first to the table, and the OOXML format is both less
flexible and more complex than it's predecessors (for example,
the ISO standard for OOXML has things in it like the attribute
"useMSWord95LikeBehavior" without telling you what that
means). Certainly, there were technically superior XML office
document formats that preceded XML that didn't make everyone
switch.

However, the governments wouldn't tell the citizens not to use a
format, EU or otherwise. The only concern for the government is
accessibility of the document contents. Older binary formats
made the contents inaccessible as the applications that dealt
with them deprecated them or were abandoned.

OOXML may still not solve that problem entirely, since it
dispenses with the notion of document format retention (some
elements of the format are undefined, so different applications
or versions of an application may render the page differently),
and it still has legal encumberances (namely, parts of the format
are dependent on MS patents and MS asserts a claim of
ownership on the document -- the representation, not the
content itself). For government purposes, it still has
shortcomings that make it technically undesirable, but it does
have the advantage of preserving most of the information in an
accessible fashion.
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Office 2007 is not compliant
by fgoldstein April 2, 2008 6:43 AM PDT
OOXML started out as a publication of the Office 2007 proprietary, patented file spec. But the ISO process made changes. Not enough to make it usable to MS competitors, but enough so that it is not the actual Office 2007 format. Thus there are precisely zero implementations. The job of OOXML was to derail ODF, a true open standard, by creating a false standard.
Remember The Saying: "All That Glitters Is Not Gold"!
by Commander_Spock April 2, 2008 5:29 AM PDT
That this CNET NEWS article states inter alia; "As expected, the ISO on Wednesday announced that Office Open XML (OOXML) has been approved as a standard, marking the end a long and sometimes contentious path.

The Geneva-based International Organization for Standardization (ISO) issued a press release with the details of a vote that showed Open XML receiving 75 percent approval and 14 percent disapproval. It needed two-thirds approval and not more than 25 percent disapproval to pass".

Still yet not not addressed are these very important issues contained in this 1998 Lotus Development Corporation communication which are as follows:

Re: Concerning the issues with 1-2-3 that are talked about in the documentation you gave me, most of the issues are related to converting files between older and newer versions of product and converting documents between Lotus and Microsoft. Anytime a file is saved backwards or saved with an older file format than the format the file was created under, such as saving a 1-2-3 , 97 file for Windows 95 into a WK1 format for DOS, then naturally we are expected to loose certain features due to technology and features that are present now that were not present 8 - 10 years ago. Similarly, if we try to convert a file from Lotus into Excel or Excel into Lotus, due to differences in the products not every feature will be converted perfectly with the file filters that are available. Both Lotus and Microsoft create similar spreadsheet programs; however, there are several differences in both programs and these differences will remain to distinguish the products apart. We do try to design conversion filters that will allow as much of the file formats as possible to be exchanged and converted without disrupting the actual file design and format.

In one of your letters you made mention of the @IRR and @ERR functions in the 1-2-3 product. By design the @IRR (notably "absent" in Open Office) will calculate the Internal Rate of Return; where the @ERR is used in conjunction with other formulas, posted was an "ERR" showing an error was received in the calculations. As far as I can see in the program I cannot find an @ERR function that will allow us to calculate an Economic Rate of Return"

And, to "crown" it all, "The CONCORDE" is still on the ground (and, the U.S. economy is still in tatters)! So, the question is: When will the "so-called" decision-makers at the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) ever learn. :-(

Read the subject line. Now, let the journey to "GOLEM" begin. (Sound the trumpets, sound the harps....)

http://www.win2biz.com/comfar/default.htm
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Good News; Good Story
by cmwendy April 2, 2008 6:59 AM PDT
This is welcome news for the Industry. Time to move on and get going on competing with good products.
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what's good about it?
by Dalkorian April 2, 2008 9:23 AM PDT
It's good for M$ apologists, but everyone in the industry who isn't
getting kickbacks from M$ is crying a little today. The ISO just sold
it's soul on a filthy street corner like a cheap diseased prostitute
and you call that a good thing?
Why is it good news?
by FellowConspirator April 2, 2008 10:01 AM PDT
The news is mixed, at best.

There's no OOXML implementation yet (remember, even MS
doesn't support OOXML as presented in the standard). The
standard for office documents doesn't specify that the layout of
the document be preserved (for example, rather than say "put
block of text at position X,Y", the standard has things like
"layout text like Word 95 would have"). And the standard itself is
encumbered by patents that, technically speaking, prohibit
implementation by organizations other than Microsoft.

Basically, it's a small will, in that it's possible to write documents
with formatting in XML that can be read by future versions of
Microsoft Office, but you can't read them without permission
from MS, and you can only see the original formatting with help
from MS. It's only a boon if you're hedging your bets on
Microsoft going bankrupt and Office being abandoned, and
that's not happening any time soon.
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"Office Open XML ratified as standard': What Standard. :-(
by Commander_Spock April 2, 2008 7:11 AM PDT
When "THE CONCORDE" flies commercially - again; perhaps, then and only then "Office Open XML" might get some attention. And, from all appearances this may not happen before GW leaves office. "Ethanol Power" You Say. ;-)

Read The Subject Line.
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Naming Names1
by Commander_Spock April 2, 2008 8:28 AM PDT
Can CNET NEWS do us the honor of providing the names of the member countries, the names of the members of the committees, their qualifications and certification.... that agreed Office Open XML as an ISO Standard under the U.S. Freedom Of Information Act.

Thank you.

Commander_Spock and Crew.
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Come On CNET NEWS Make Our Day!
by Commander_Spock April 2, 2008 8:49 AM PDT
Do all of those things and "The Current Bush Administration has got to go down as as one of the best" in modern day. Let's See How Many Times This Word Can Be Repeated - Ethanol! Ethanol! Ethanol! Ethanol! Ethanol Ethanol! Ethanol Ethanol!....... ;-)
Join us in producing the next standard
by fokwp April 2, 2008 9:37 AM PDT
Dear Microsoft Customers:

Our Level II ISO standard is now under development, and we expect it will offer even *greater* consumer choice than our original version, and be even more open, transparent, and useful to the open standards community! Those of you who wish to have input into the development of this standard, and/or wish to have software in the pipeline that can handle our Level II file structure once we release it from our proprietary labs and out for approval, may join our "Early Open Access" development program just by signing a non-disclosure and paying a quite reasonable fee!
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