Comments on: Congress is holding H-1B boost 'hostage,' says Oracle lobbyist

If the issue stays entangled with volatile debate over undocumented workers, high-tech companies' efforts to hire more foreigners through skilled worker visas are "toast," he says.

[styrum]

Some NFAP studies relevant to the topic

http://nfap.com/pdf/071206study.pdf
http://nfap.com/pdf/080311h1b.pdf

[styrum]

I should have said "Some myth busting" rather

The first one deals especially very well with "wage suppression" and "job stealing" argument

[The_Decider]

If you have the right degree and the right skills a good job is easy to get

http://www.cra.org/wp/index.php?p=141

Just because you have a very shallow degree like a BS/MS in IS or a worthless certificate like MCSE SCJD or you read programming for dummies doesn't make you qualified.

Quit crying and get a legitimate education.

[suyts]

And you do what?

Teach?? Try for a masters? Just what education are you referring to? A CS degree? That and $1 will get you a cup of coffee at some low level programing job. You will let us know how it comes out when you grow up, won't you?

[gps-dude]

Misinformed

If you are fired from an H1 job, you arent deported, you have a time window in which you can find a new job. Usually, in a booming economy most people do, while in a slow economy, some may not be able to get new jobs.

Rest of the story about H1s working like a monk and all that is just BS.. H1s are regular folks like you and me, some are workaholics, some are bums, some are incompetent and some are just regular folks like you and me, trying to put their kids through school and dinner on the table.

If a company treats it America born employees and H1s different, just imagine the amount of discontent ! Employers do have a hold on their employee, but thats when Employment based green cards come into the picture, and thats a whole new story to talk about.

All of these stories about H1s being sheep are just urban myths circulated to make anti immigration folks feel better about themselves. Visit Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Ebay, Qualcomm, Cisco to find out ! If the manager is someone who came in on an H1, hes not going to treat his employees different.

[gps-dude]

Lets make America into New Zealand

yeah, laws like new zealand..

That will make us a great tech. powerhouse, just like New Zealand is !

[styrum]

Green Cards INSTEAD of H1Bs - not a very popular idea among H1B critics

This is a real litmus test for H1B critics which easily reveals their bigotry:
OK, so lets assume, it is still very debatable - see NFAP studies, for example, but lets still assume that you are right and H1Bs drive down wages. What is the main reason a skilled adeucated person would agree to work for lower than the market wage? The answer is what you don't like to talk much about: most of the H1B workers don't really want H1B - they want a green card. Yes, once they are on on H1b they are allowed to apply for it (otherwise, US couldn't lure most of those high skilled people into the country). However, this "immigration process" has been deliberately sabotaged by the government for the last several years. For all those years the employee is effectively bound to the "sponsoring" employer which is the exact reason that creates incentives for abuse! So, why don't H1b critics (who often like to shed crocodile tears about poor underpaid H1B workers) suggest and fight for giving the admitted foreign workers green cards within rasonable timeframes (several months instead of several years)? The answer is simple: their real agenda is purely protectionist and anti-immigrant. They do and will forever hate "aliens" and try to discriminate against them. They will hate them if they come ("steal jobs"), they will hate them if they don't come (outsourcing). They will hate them if they are underpaid ("wage suppression"), they will hate them if they make more money ("steal well-paid jobs from us").

Just like one can't argue with a racist or nazi, one can't conduct any rational discussion with an anti-immigrant either. Those (vicious and/or ignorant) people will always demand "preferences" for themselves over blacks, Jews, Gipsies, other "inferior" races, "aliens" (never mind those aliens may have LEGALLY lived in this country for many years), "those damn rednecks from Middle of Nowhere, Oklahoma, who come and steal jobs from us, noble New-Yorkers/Seattlites/Californians", etc.

[joelam888]

Free the slaves

If there are any.

[smiller987]

Slimy Tactics

Yes, there are many right wing nutcases out there; some of whom often make offensive posts in forums like this whenever the H1-B topic is discussed. But calling ALL of the critics "racist" is just more hyperbolic fearmongering, which seems to be the fallback position for supporters of unlimited expansion of the program IN ITS CURRENT FORM. It certainly will not sway anyone to your cause. I would happily support issuing more green cards for workers of all levels of education and experience. It would present a much more level playing field than how the current H1-B program works. I was a supporter of Bush's immigration reform (the only smart proposal he ever made, which, unfortunately, was shot down by more fearmongering). Where is your support for H1-B reform? The program as it stands now facilitates abuse and undermines all of us workers. It is not "racist" to call out someone for lying or being manipulative. The presented rationales given for expansion of the current program simply do not stand up to scrutiny. The most common reason given is that there is a shortage of skilled workers. If you make the claim that there is a worker shortage, you better be able to back that claim up or (as has pretty much happened) you will end up losing all credibility. If there are better reasons, or real data to back up your claims, please, by all means, share your secrets with us.

[greenleaf81]

Just reading the comments on this article and found your comment to be the best one of all out here. You seem to either have worked on H1b or have closely observed what h1b employees have to go through and want.

The real fight for the h1b immigrants is indeed for Green card. We work, get exploited, get underpaid or not paid for months - yet we cannot complain, file a complaint against DOL because we do not want to sabotage our chances of GC by filing against that company that is keeping us in loop for a GC.

Give h1b employees a visa for 3 years - but do not make us bound to an employer. The whole abuse in the system is because of this. If we are not bound to an employee and are still able to file for GC - it will free us from our abusers. What happened to the freedom in this country? If I were not bound to a body shopper because of my GC (which they slow down as much as they can) I would have switched jobs, found a job where my gf is and would have been overall happier and more productive. Is the freedom only for GC holders and citizens while fully qualified h1b employees do not have a freedom? More over why the discrimination for h1b employees from India and china - who are bound to one employer and have to wait 8 years or so for a GC while people from other countries get it done in less than 2 years.

Do not hate me for wanting a GC in this country.

[StorageAdmin]

Don't confuse with salary

The fact that H1-B employees by any company - they are EASY TO CONTROL. You show them the door and they will be licking your feets to stay.

Most companies are about workforce control, free enterprise when employees can flip finger too is not part of the game.

[styrum]

That is the exact goal of stretching the "immigraion process" into infinity

It is a shame but, especially in the recent years, US has been striving to keep immigrants without full rights for as long as possible. Beleive it or not, but it was possible to bring a foreign worker on a green card in 3 months or so just 15 years ago. It is impossible to abuse or underpay a worker on green card - he will show a finger and go to a decent employer right away! So they made up this "dual purpose" H1B scheme in early nineties to lure skilled people but still not give them full rights of a "permanent resident". For those who don't know: the spouse of H1B worker is not allowed work, hence can't get SSN, hence, in some states can't get a driver's license. Moreover, neither H1B worker himself nor his dependents are eligible for in-state tuition no matter how long they have lived in the state (except Texas and California), let alone any financial aid. Most of Americans have no clue what the highly skilled, in many cases American-educated LEGAL immigrants have to go through to get the right even to call themselves immigrants. If somebody is really interested in the details of this particular "employment-based immigration path" ordeal, I would highly recommend to read at least the front page of immigrationvoice.org.

[Hopalite]

H-1NB and Oracle Lobbyist

I have an engineering degree from a prestigious university and am also a member of SOCOM. I do not hate aliens. However; I have also served in Irag and Afganistan and have captured foreign engineers educated in America making incredibly sophisticated munitions. These foreign engineers were educated in American Universities through The H-1B. Contrary to popular belief; many of the IEDs are quite sophisticated. In fact these foreign engineers have caused more American dead and wounded then the snipers, mortars, small arms fire and suicide bombers combined. Our Multinational Corporations are as much to blame as the IED American trained engineers. These corporations do not care about the American students Workers or the American Soldiers. All they care is about Their Multimillion dollar salaries ,bonuses and severance packages. Of course; I am probably talking to American Engineering Students who someday want to be in Their shoes. You have the luxury to debate these issues because of us Alleged haters of Aliens. I hate the multinational corporate lobbyist who do not care about American students, workers or soldiers.

[styrum]

Yeh, right, "damn aliens - we educate them, they blow us up"

1. Foreigners are not "educated" on H1Bs in US. H1B is a "workers" status. Unless you mean their work experience and knowledge acquired while working on H1B.
2. So, what is you suggestion? Kick out all the foreign students and workers (and all the immigrants, no matter how long they have lived here)? You know what? It looks to me that most of the violent crimes in US are commited by black and hispanic citizens. I guess, because of that fact the rights of those groups must be severely restricted, must they not? Better to put them all into jail right away, right? Wanna go any further with this style of argument?

BTW, the crime rates among ALL immigrants (even illegals, let alone high-skilled and educated legals) are actually lower than the averages across the population - your beloved Lou Dobbs was busted lying on this.

[suyts]

Do you have a link to your

final assertion? I'd be very interested to seeing the stats. It's very difficult to find unbiased stats regarding crime rates of immigrants, legal and otherwise.

[dkristoff]

"Shortage" of H-1B's due to Indian Outsourcers!!

Why isn't anyone mentioning the figures published recently in Business Week, namely that 4 of the top 5 and 8 of the top 10 users of H-1B visas are Indian outsourcers?? The only US companies in the top 10 are Microsoft and Intel. The H-1B program was supposed to allow US comapnies to fill vacancies, not facilitate the export of IT jobs!! Seems like Congress should be able to fix this massive loophole!!

[BALTHOR1]

Out of the jungle into our computer rooms?

Who is going to hire an illegal?

[joelam888]

H-1B should only be reserved for those graduated in the US

At least we know the college degree is not just a piece of fake paper.

That will also eliminate the Indian outsourcing companies.

[styrum]

Another "fresh" anti-immigrant idea

Implemented in Canada widely: keeping educated immigrants on the lower steps of the social ladder by not recognizing their foreign education and experience (as if, say, physcs laws or Microsoft SQL Server are very different from those in use in Canada)

[NoVista]

Maybe not fake now but ...

When I was an engineering contractor in Saudi Arabia in 1969-70, there were a number of locals sent stateside for university training. Not to mention names/institutions but, frankly, some of them were diploma mills.

One data point: a graduate returned to Riyadh and was assigned to me. After hearing all his "I made this ... " and "I designed a ... " I gave him a simple maintenance task. An hour later, I checked to see how it was going.

"I am not qualified to do this," he asserted.

A day later, he went on indefinite sick leave. The next time I saw him, a year later, he'd come in to get his holiday time approved. (Not by me!)

As far as H1Bs now, I suspect the main qualification is "how much cheaper this person will work than the American we just threw out the door."

[jim727]

Lobbyists crying that Congress is holding their will hostage

can these people possibly be more arrogant?

K street, the sleazy street this ball of slime works on, is what's holding Congress hostage. Has for years

H-1b's with messianic ferver, urge citizens to get out of their way, only they know what's best for us.

But with their magnificent brainpower, isnt it odd that they failed to create a country they could stand to live in? After all, isn't that the most basic measurement of success?

India is a cesspool of corruption, and H-1b makes our government more like India's every single day

H-1bs arent here to help our country, they're here to steal what they can before it's ruined

[Layed0ff6times]

Boo hoo. There are no Americans to take customer calls

Experience:

6/02 - Present
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxx, FL
Systems Administrator

Solaris, AIX, HPUX, Linux and Windows Server environment.

· Hardware and software asset administration for various Sun Enterprise systems, RS/6000 and Itanium, Compaq DL series, parts, storage arrays, software licensing.
· Jumpstart new Sun Workstations for infrastructure.
· Install and configure NetBackup on new systems.
· Schedule backups and restores as needed.
· System Administrator for in-sourced AIX, Linux and Solaris servers.
· Open service calls to vendors and onsite contractors.
· Order new parts and equipment.
· RMA (return) old parts and equipment.
· Configure and install Linux, UNIX, and NT servers and equipment.
· Write shell scripts to save time performing daily tasks and to create startup scripts.
· Install, configure, and support software running on all UNIX servers and workstations.
(BMC Patrol, Websphere, Weblogic, ColdFusion, Oracle, SyBase)

Accomplishments:

· Initiated policies to visually inspect three times daily every server cabinet for cooling and other issues in order to catch problems not reported by system error messages or monitoring software.
· Initiated and implemented policies to ensure proper cooling of server cabinets by improving cabling and utilizing blank panels to fill in the vacant areas left by absent servers.
· Coordinated relocating computer equipment, production and test servers and cabinets from Dunedin Data Center to new Data Center in Oldsmar.
· Sun Certification

Training:
Online courses and in-house classes in:
Business Communication, Team Management, Business Ethics, Asset Management, Remedy, Project Management, Time Management, and Health & Safety.



9/99-4/01:
Verizon, Tampa, FL
Solaris and AIX UNIX Systems Administrator

· Maintained hundreds of Solaris Workstations, repaired, replaced parts, built from scratch.
· Jumpstarted new Sun Workstations from NIS master server.
· System Administrator for six Central Archiving servers located around the U.S.
· System Administrator for five IUX Faxcomm Servers.
· System Administrator for several NIS+ servers and Workstations.
· Assembled from out-of-box E250, E4500, E450, E10k Sun Servers and installed and configured OS and Veritas Cluster Server for failover to backup systems.
· Set up VFS, Veritas Volume Manager and Solstice DiskSuite for mirroring and striping.
· Configured production and failover servers for EMC and D1000 disk arrays. (Connectrix)
· On call 24x7 on a rotational basis as Primary contact for system problems.
· Keep documentation up to date on internal web pages for ISO compliance.
· Work several projects simultaneously, prioritize and obtain assistance when required.
· Install customer software and patches on UNIX servers per specifications.

9/98-9/99 Brite Voice Systems, Heathrow, FL
UNIX Systems Administrator

· Managed hardware and operating systems for Tandem High Availability systems worldwide, running Nonstop UNIX.
· Troubleshoot and/or schedule replacement of faulty hardware.
· Extensive travel worldwide installing and upgrading NS UNIX systems.
· On call 24 hrs X 7 days for emergency service and support.
· Schedule and perform Brite System installation and system upgrades as required.
· Schedule and perform routine maintenance on Brite systems.
· Maintain customer system configuration in Brite Customer Support Database System.
· Participation in the Corporate Quality Management Program, including ISO 9001.
· Assist Tech Support by providing remote telephone support as needed.
· Maintain effective communications between the Customers and Brite Management regarding sensitive or critical customer situations.

2/98-9/98 Stetson University, DeLand, FL
UNIX Systems Administrator, Contractor
· Managed two HP9000s running HP-UX 10.1.
· Maintained RAID disk array and peripheral devices.
· Maintained patch management and user support.
· Managed Firewall hardware/software.
· Assistant System Administrator for several SunOS 5.5.1 systems
· Configured and managed ARCServe software and tape backups for network.
· Various duties such as project planning, network hardware setup.

6/96-2/98 American Telnet, Miami, FL
Operations Specialist/C Programmer
· C programming for SCO UNIX Interactive Voice Response.
· Monitored UNIX processes, file systems, CPU and disk usage, errorlogs, and console messages.
· Scheduled and performed backups of UNIX, Novell, and NT servers using ARCServe.
· Maintained several SCO UNIX servers.
· Monitored and tested 78 inbound and outbound T1 lines.
· Monitor and troubleshoot network equipment.
· Performed telecommunications support for remote agents.

3/96-5/96 Sirs, Inc., Delray Beach, FL
UNIX Systems Administrator, Contractor
· Installed and configured DNS and BIND on Solaris and Linux boxes.
· Installed and configured web servers and related software.
· Configured network of MACs and PCs for new ISP and new IP addresses.
· Reconfigured Novell and UNIX shell scripts for new network.

11/95-3/96 PCMC, Inc. Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Contractor
· Helped relocate physician's management office.
· Configured network of PCs in new office.
· Configured Audix system for running dual PBX.

6/94-10/95 Templeton Investments, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Computer Operator/Systems Administrator
· Monitored AS/400, RS/6000, Wang 1740 in a Novel environment.
· Configured PCs for the Novell network.
· Ran batch jobs for production.
· Wrote shell scripts for UNIX and Novell.
· Performed backups and tape library management for network.
· Provided support for users worldwide.

12/93-6/94 IBM, Boca Raton, FL
Contractor
· Performed Technical Support for OS/2

2/92-12/93 Nova University, Davie, FL
Computer Operator
· Maintained several UNIX and VMS systems.
· Configured parameters and ran batch jobs.
· Printed and distributed reports.
· Printed Accounts Payable and payroll checks


7/89-1/92 Harris Computer Systems, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Computer Operator/Assistant UNIX Administrator
· Monitored UNIX and VMS systems
· Ran daily, weekly, and monthly batch jobs.
· Performed user support for users worldwide.
· Dispatched hardware Field Engineers worldwide.
· UNIX System Administration

12/87-5/89 Seagate Technology, Delray Beach, FL
Clean Room Technician Lead
· Supervised 10 people in a class-100 clean room repairing disk drives

2/84-2/88 U.S.M.C. Miami, FL

Gaps in employment history were filled as self-employed computer technician.

1992 B.S. Computer Information Systems Nova University, Davie, Florida

Training:
1994 Novell Networking course, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
1998 HP-UX Systems Administration 10.x course, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
1999 Tandem NonStop-UX Advanced Systems Administration and
Configuration, Cupertino, CA
1999 Tandem Integrity Veritas Volume Manager and File System
Administration, Cupertino, CA

ISO 9000 Certification at Brite Voice Systems

2000 ISO 9000 Certification at GTE (Verizon)
Veritas Cluster Server v1.1.2 training, Orlando, FL
Veritas Volume Manager, Orlando, FL.

References on request

[styrum]

Great resume, but what's the point?

So, what, you, a Unix/C guy from Florida, still don't want a company, say, in Seattle to hire, say, an National Instruments Certified LabVIEW Developer from London/Sidney/Moscow? Do you think they are obliged to hire a less qualified guy from Alabama instead, just because he had a luck to have been born in US?

[The_Decider]

Please quit crying

Some day a company will be impressed with your McSkills.

[styrum]

Relevant 3 days old NYT article

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/nyregion/24visas.html?ex=1364184000&en=c5f17b2e38d7c503&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

[wcrosby]

Hoffman will say anything

This guy is incredible -- he will say or do anything to make a case why he should be able to throw hard working Americans overboard and replace them with foreign cheap labor.

the Programmer's Guild has agreed that if there are true reforms, that if Americans can compete for the positions, and if the visas were allocated so that American firms go first dibs, and only the first 65,000 visas would go to the highest bidder, then the program would make sense.

But Mr. Hoffman wants more and is unwilling to settle for anything less than total conquest of the high tech worker with the assistance of a corrupt Congress.

I hope he and the Kompete Amerika gang go down in flames once again.

[ST111]

Yes, he is paid to say this so why not...

All lobbyists are good at their jobs.

[BatmanG8]

CONGRESS IS HOLDING VISA CUTS HOSTAGE

That's the story they should have published.

[Mercury23]

300+ Million Americans

What possible IT job is there where we need to import foreign labor in a country of over 300 million people?

Am I to believe that there are actual jobs out there in which there is not one single living breathing American citizen can do?

It's a BS ploy for CHEAP CHEAP labor... nothing else. There are plenty of capable able Americans who can do their work. It's just those guys actually want to be paid what they are worth.

Why would Oracle, Microsoft or Apple want to pay an American IT worker $75,000+ a year when they can get some poor little Indian over here to do the same job for $25,000... Wanna guess where that $50,000 in wage savings goes? CEO bonus, corporate vacations, new cars, high priced prostitutes.

With all the money they can save on hiring cheap foreign labor, it's no wonder they are begging for more H-1B visas... They need to take 2 weeks off for an all expense company paid trip to the Swiss Alps in their nice little leer jet with a couple of hot Asian girls they picked up along the way.

[maguro_01]

Giving skilled immigration to corporations destructive

If a prospective visa worker went to a US Consulate or applied here to US Immigration then had, say, 18 months to get a job, the bad effects of the program would go away. Ditto applying for a Green Card themselves later. Note that corporate employers now have to apply for the Green Card for an H1-B employee as well as apply for the work visa and have the workers over a barrel. We are lucky to get the best of the newcomers - note that really distinguished researchers can get a Green Card in a couple of months, an H1-B is unnecessary.

But instead lobbyists got the whole program given to corporations to manage and game. So the tech job market gets obliterated. US citizens or people with GC's already cannot compete with usually low balled, overworked, and indentured H1-B's. Note that most of those great numbers of H1-B's are fairly average. Companies could be selective about that 65,000 but they aren't.

The more visas they get for themselves, the fewer US students, especially the best US students, show up since if they get jobs at all they won't get a career. Then the companies go to Washington and say US students are too stupid instead of too smart and ask for more visas still - a downward spiral. Today, since Green Cards are backed up so many years companies are really just rotating many visa workers back to the company's centers in the originating counties. That's one reason H1-B's tend to come from so few countries. Note that companies campaign and spend lobby money on work visa lobbying, but seldom on GC lobbying. Surprise...

It is fair to say that as a side effect the US is actually undeveloping at the same time it is assuming cosmic debt levels to work off. The national bar tab is close to tapped out...

[ST111]

Fight Back!

The cries of "racism" and "hate" are always there - don't get cowed...

Join the fight against these specious arguments from Bill Gates and the Tech-CEO lobby and the current H1B bills in Congress by joining www.numbersusa.com and sign up for grassroots Total Activism. They are very well-researched, moderate-toned and 1/2-million strong supported - and have a very easy to use & FREE fax service to contact your elected officials in Congress.

If possible, also donate to them - I have found they are one of the most efficient and focused groups for a controlled immigration policy that is responsive to the needs of America's future.

The people's voice needs to be heard - not just Bill Gates and the immigration lawyer lobby. Time is of the essence.

[ST111]

A rational look

There are simplistic arguments being made here-

"Why would Oracle, Microsoft or Apple want to pay an American IT worker $75,000+ a year when they can get some poor little Indian over here to do the same job for $25,000.." - Not true, the salaries do not work that way at the large software Cos. What happens is foreign teams form cliques and hire only their own ethnic group just out of comfort zone. Over time, entire teams become H1B's and "owned" by that country and 'generic' Americans cannot be hired. So there is a large cultural, ethnic, non-economic aspect to this phenomenon.

[StorageAdmin]

VERY TRUE

Could not agrree more - look at all Indians clans that spread like cancer. Try to get a job with thyeir group if you do not smell like curry tree.