Comments on: Mozilla CEO says Apple's Safari auto-update 'wrong'

The Firefox browser is updated automatically, too. But that's different because people downloaded it on their own in the first place, says Mozilla chief John Lilly.

[t8]

It would be fair to say

It would be fair to say that some Apple users use Apple products because they dislike Microsoft and these kind of tactics will only help alienate these users because bundling is a Microsoft thing.

[gerardmclean]

Safari is elegant, Firefox is boxy and geeky

I use Safari because web sites look better in it. Fonts and smoother, forms are rendered nicer, etc. Firefox opens it's techie robes and makes you look at ugly form
buttons and drop down menus.. too geeky.

Clean up the interface, FF. Yeah, it is important to look as elegant as you work. Until
MSIE and FF takes UI as seriously as Apple does, Safari is my browser and I don't have
a problem with Apple distributing a more elegant solution.

[Turgeson]

That's why FF has these cool things called

skins. Try 'em out sometime.

[The_Decider]

Safari on Windows is total crap

End of story

[zboot]

I wonder if you realized how foolish an argument that was

So, let's say I sold food laced with anthrax and a rival company sold regular food. I used a hot sexy model to advertise my food and they used a not so good looking one.

By your standards, you'd continue to buy my food because of the model and only after the rival company had improved their advertising would you condemn my selling of anthrax laced foods. . .

[ImSpartacus]

Too Geeky?

If you honestly think using Safari makes you cool, then you are sadly mistaken. I use all 4 major browsers and none of them are "cool." I have grown to enjoy firefox more than anything else because of its speed against IE, but none of them are cool.

Frankly if you are surfing the web, odds are, you aren't "cool."

[lawrencewinkler]

But Safari not that good!

I think it is fine for Apple to give users an opportunity to use
Safari. It allows them to compare Safari with IE and Firefox (and
the other lesser-used browsers).

I'm a Mac and PC user and use IE primarily on the PC, also Safari
-- which has a cleaner interface.

On my many Mac's I use Safari primarily, but always need to use
Firefox for certain sites because Safari (even the latest version)
simply cannot render many sites correctly.

One example: I recently switched from Verizon to AT&T (Apple's
big iPhone partner). Safari cannot handle the AT&T site at all;
Firefox does just fine.

Safari still is unable to fine-tune the pop-up blocker, unlike
Firefox and IE7, so anyone wanting to run, say, their trusted
internal web applications (which use pop-ups to support useful
functionality) will want to use Firefox or IE7, because of their
support the blocker tuning.

But, I repeat myself if I say the CEO is clueless. So instead of
pointing out where his product is better, and improving his
product where it is not, he takes the "legal" approach to thwart
competition instead. The guy should just go back to selling
shoelaces.

[walterwood]

This is not new for Apple

I do not own an iPod and do not have iTunes installed. For over a year Apple's auto update for QuickTime always tries to install iTunes even though I do not have it installed.

I ended up removing the auto update program to avoid this boorish behavior. (In fact I also removed QuickTime.)

[ZZ Photography]

CEO just scared

This is actually nothing more then the CEO of Mozilla fearing his competition. Think about this for a second Apple has a viable platform to distribute their software much in the same way that Microsoft distributed IE. Will we see the DOJ down the line castrate Apple like it did MS? Probably not but I think Mozilla's CEO is just afraid of ending up like Netscape and instead of innovating and accepting a little competition he's just going around saying Apple is wrong.

[Kimsh]

And should be

Come on, thi sis a clear anti-trust issue. Apple is using its dominant position with iTunes and the pod to get people to suck down software they may not want. What is worse is that they are using a mechanism that is intended to simplify distributing patches for critical fixes to push down a browser that is riddle with serious security holes. That is was shold make people scared. Trust Apple to try to screw up peoples trust to make a few bucks.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Update yes, new installs no

Apple says: ""We are using Software Update to make it easy and convenient for both Mac and Windows users to get the latest Safari update from Apple."

That's the problem right there. I don't mind having iTunes or Quicktime updated. I don't like having to take time to opt out of getting new software that I may not have wanted in the first place.

I expect with the bad press this is getting that it won't be like this for long. If it does stay this way, it doesn't look good for the the concept of consumers having any choice in what they will have on their phones/computers/net appliance.

[R.Jefferson]

Updates only update ads and phoning home technology

Better functionality, fixed bugs, new features ect, yea right. For every aforementioned improvement comes, 6 malware or surreptitious feature updates.

I am more concerned about updates that "upgrade" the ad supported or "phoning home" aspects of software. I?m jaded to the point where I believe all updates are just updates to data mining, ad or phoning home features, not user enhancement features.

[armstrong1z8]

I think their plan backfired

When I saw Safari automatically appear in my iTunes auto-update, I thought "that's strange". But, I decided I would try out this browser; since I have heard some good things about it.

As soon as it installed, I tried running it to see how it compared with IE and Firefox. Unfortunately, it crashed as soon as it opened. From reading various postings on Apple's discussion boards, I don't think I am alone.

If that's the first impression many consumers will have of Safari, I think Apple may have hampered its sucess, rather than encouraged it.

[antony701]

Firefox's forcing users update is worse

So Mozilla CEO complained that Apple showed up their new
software under Apple Software Update.

Firefox's default setting forces users to install whatsoever
updates upon the next re-launch of the software. Thanks to the
Firefox's unethical default setting, innocent users who have not
checked every preferences settings would leave no options but
to install whatsoever updates Firefox deems fit. (
http://sillydog.org/forum/sdt_13042.php )

On the other hand, Apple Software Update's default setting
allowing users to choose to install or not. NOT forcing them
without giving them an option of saying no.

And Firefox's method of forcing users to install software is
acceptable, but not Apple's Software Update notice which users
have the option to decline or even ignoring it.

[zephryn]

There is a difference

(and yes I did read the thread in the link you provided)

Firefox "by default" installs it's security updates automatically, ie. ff 2.0.0.2 > ff 2.0.0.3 to keep it as a safe and secure browser. Now this to me sounds an awful lot like...say...Windows? By default everything is automatic and you have to do just as much work in Windows as you do in Firefox to change this setting.

The point of this article is that people are getting updates for Safari from iTunes, not from Safari. I'm just wondering if people who have iTunes and not Safari will be prompted to install safari 3.1 by default as well...

[basraw]

wrong wrong wrong

at least firefox doesn't automatically download and install thunderbird if you haven't dl'd it b4.

[rolandk10]

more like yahoo/google

Everyone keeps comparing this to Microsft I guess because they both make operating systems but it makes no sense to compare the two in this case. Of course Microsoft updates it's os. likewise, Apple updates it's own. This reminds me more of the toolbars that every program and it's brother wants to install into my browser.

I've become very accustomed to paying close attention to all dialogue boxes during an install to make sure one of those useless toolbars doesn't get installed too. Every once in a while, one will still get through. Go uninstall...

Now on the other hand, I have seen many times on customer PC's 3 or 4 of these toolbars running. Add to that bs antispyware/antivirus and you quickly realize ma and pa kettle have no idea what they are doing on the PC. Now I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to running a restaurant or building a car or flying a plane etc. I hire them for their skills, they hire me for mine. i don't buy the argument that it's the users fault for not knowing how their computer works 100%.

It does no good to sneak a program into someones PC if they don't know it's there or what it is. They won't use it. They wouldn't know what it was even if they clicked on it. No, instead they call me at 10:00pm freaking out because there is some new icon on their desktop and they think they may have a virus.

The only thing Apple may get is the ability to brag about it's installed base but that claim is pointless now that everyone knows how it's getting pushed onto PC's.

[GotAMD]

Old News -- Note iTunes

Apple has been trying to shove iTunes down the throats of Quicktime users via its update software for years. It's very annoying, because every new version of the iTunes+Quicktime bundle that comes out overrides my request to ignore iTunes(+Quicktime) updates. I *ONLY* want Quicktime updates, Apple!!!

[reddrop60]

How many times do you need to unselect the box???

I'm sure I've had to unselect that darn box a few times now. How persistent must they be???

[jeanl]

Safari Browser suck big times if you use it on full blow heavy scripted Java site. It became very unstable as bad as IE7 or IE 6. Mozilla TB is better but the best is Opera. However, Opera has it weakness cos the look and feel is a little diff from what you see in other 3 browsers mentioned earlier.

[jeanl]

Safari Browser suck big times if you use it on full blow heavy scripted Java site. It became very unstable as bad as IE7 or IE 6. Mozilla TB is better but the best is Opera. However, Opera has it weakness cos the look and feel is a little diff from what you see in other 3 browsers mentioned earlier.