Comments on: Bill Gates to Congress: Let us hire more foreigners
In a familiar pitch, Microsoft chairman argues companies like his can't find enough qualified Americans and calls for the U.S. government to loosen its visa policies.
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The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge. -- Stephen Hawking
http://blog.dreamhost.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/gates-cream-pie-big.jpg
And, I hate to say this - but if American tech workers want to keep their jobs someone is going to have to start doling out sore kneecaps.
I'll try not to assume you are a greedy business owner looking for cheap labor OR a H1B who's well educated and thinks he's better than his American counterparts.
Points:
1) I believe a nations own companies should be responsible for contributing to the success and wellbeing of the nation and all who belong to that nation.
2) (Commander Spocks point). Survival of the superior is a human concept discovered to be flawed. Superior genetics, ambition, or even attitude does not create strength. Strength is in the mix and our protective nurturing of the flawed somehow generates more.
3) The number of degree holders outside the US (and Europe) far outnumbers the number of degree holders in the US. In fact there are more educated people in the "non privileged" world than there are jobs in the US. Yet the jobs are here.
Questions:
Should the United States compete in the global economy as a country, rising and falling with one another even if it means some real low times for all? All for one and one for all. Or should such romantic notions be forgotten and every man for them self.
Should we (Americans or even the world) abandon the concept of nations so that corporations can be the new political power structure? The struggle of companies to make profit outstrips the goal of nations to hold and maintain wealth for its peoples.
Is not a nation a provider of entitlement?
Should America's current tenants be kicked out so that new tenants can move in? After all the jobs are here, and the larger percentage of college educated are out there.
Should we not try to fix our schools before we give away the jobs available for future graduates?
All other nations are protective of their jobs. In Europe for example, companies have to extensively prove a local candidate cannot be hired before they can hire someone outside Europe. Should the US not be protective of its jobs as well?
Question :- "Should America compete...."
Yes, not competing is not an option, especially if we are the biggest economy of the world.
There is a saying "All roads lead to Rome:". We (America) in my understanding is the present day Rome.
Question :- "Should America abandon the concept...."
No America or even the world should not abandon the concept of 'nations and nationality'
But then, again, are the politicians not a puppet of our corporate america.
Question :- "Is not a nation a provider of entitlement?"
No, in my opinion no one asking no one to get kicked out, only making space for new comers. Lets look at it this way..
a. We are the youngest country in the world....only 300 years of history we have.
b. Our population is very small (300 million) compared to the amount of land we have.
c. Over the years we as a nation (the majority of it) have become so arrogant, that the world now is speaking up.
Question :- "Should we try not to fix....?"
Absolutely we as a nation per capita are spending more on building larger jails than schools and using that money for paying our teachers.
Let's not kid anybody here.
The 2nd is Carlos Slim from Mexico.
Check the link
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/03/05/richest-people-billionaires-billionaires08-cx_lk_0305billie_land.html
Gates muddled and incoherent testimony that US universities are not producing enough STEM graduate was pure perjury: studies by Rand, AP Soan, Urban Institute has shown that there is a glut of STEMs and no shortage. Gates testimony that he pays most of his H1Bs over $100K/year is also a lie: according the LCA database 85% of H1Bs employed by MS are paid < $50K/year and are not the ?best and brightest? or even doing technical work. I applaud Rohrabacher for standing for use native born Americans who invented just about every modern technology. The computer industry that made Gates rich was invented by us native had born Americans NOT Gate's cheap, unimaginative, non-innovative $9/hour Chinese and Indian flunkies.
You write and I quote
"I applaud Rohrabacher for standing for use native born Americans who invented just about every modern technology"
If you are so inclined on the word "technology" means - Google History of Technology and the click the first link (the Wiki page). I don't see anywhere America being mentioned.
You write and I quote
"The computer industry that made Gates rich was invented by us native had born Americans NOT Gate's cheap, unimaginative, non-innovative $9/hour Chinese and Indian flunkies.
"
GOD help you here.
Hiring some of those people from other countries for localization, in those countries, is acceptable in a global economy. Bringing foreign workers here to minimize the cost of hiring is not a good idea. Where do the students from the US get jobs and experience in the tech sector if all the available jobs at front running companies like Microsoft are going to students here on visas.
Shouldn't Mr. Gates be pushing congress to reduce the amount of visa's and investing money in US bound scholarships and bring the majority of its workers up from the US educational system?
"Ron Hira, a public policy professor at the Rochester Institute of Technology and author of the book Outsourcing America, told CNET News.com on Wednesday that it's wrong for Gates to imply that most H-1Bs are going to the brightest foreigners with advanced degrees and earning them big bucks. According to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, the typical H-1B holder holds a bachelor's degree and is making a median salary of $50,000."
USCIS does not keep track the actual salary being paid to any H1-B holder. They only verify that they are getting paid above the minimum. Further they don't make their records public so where did CNET get this $50,000 number from?.Looks like Anne Broache (CNET News) pulled this number right out of their behind.
Foreign students come here not for free education, they come because the good schools are here.
Then why do they HAVE to come here? Do all the Olympic athletes from the various other countries spend their careers living and training in the US? Of course not! This is why Bill Gates analogy is so poor. MS has major operations in India, Asia and Europe. Wouldn't it be better with they stayed in their home countries with their family and friends! I would!
>>In order to compete with the best in the world,
>> the US *needs* the best in the world. Period.
Unfortunately, most of the H1Bs being imported are not the "best and brightest" as based on their wages. For example, according to the LCA database, 85% of the H1Bs working at MS earn less than $50K/year - not the +$100K/year for the best and brightest with most of them NOT doing technical work. Many are for example are doing clerical work like legal, accounting and business stuff not math and science. [ I've hear a story that one H1B was operating a cookie dough mixing machine! LOL ;) ] Everyone wants to bring over the best and brightest; however, the H1B program right now is not doing that. It's displacing native born workers so that our kids no longer want to go into math and science. That has to be changed! Google: Ron Hira or Norman Matloff for more info.
>> It is true that the H1B program has long been misused and requires to undergo rigorous
>> reforms at the earliest.
There is such a reform bill authored by Senators Durbin and Grassely and supported by Rohrbacker called ?The H1B and L3 Visa Fraud Prevention Act of 2007". Unfortunately Compete American does not support it just confirming that tech business is just interested in cheap labor not pricey quality workers.
>> especially when these highly skilled immigrants have so much to contribute
>> to the US economy
Statements like this are misleading: H1Bs are not immigrants they are NIV(Non Immigrant Visa) holders. They are not the same thing; naturalized citizens do contribute but H1Bs don't leave much of footprint.
H1Bs are largely used as cheap labor to outsource jobs. The top nine users of H1B are Indian outsourcing companies that move jobs off-shore. These H1Bs are not starting fortune 500 companies. Currently there are estimated to be over 700K visa over stayers from China and India in the US who didn?t go home when their visa expired. The fastest growing group of illegal immigrants in the US are from India. We need to reform H1B and deport all these poor people before American innovation can start up again.
>> Immigrants in Silicon Valley fuel the entrepreneur culture
With regards to the specific article, it is true that many of the founding EMPLOYEES of "tech" companies were foreign born BUT none of the big fortune 500 tech companies were founded by H1Bs from China or India - that's propaganda created by lobbyist to keep the cheap labor coming. The Washington political pimps are deliberately trying to confuse the issue by substituting the word immigrant for H1B in statement trying to make what is true for one class true for the other. Fortunately, the devastating consequences that H1B has had American innovation are coming out and cannot be ignored by the politicians anymore.
Volume 1, the first eight parts of sixteen parts posted on YouTube.
China Milks Our Sacred Cows (Pt. 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS-_i0e0Mlw
Gee! How were we to know? (Pt. 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfRpaMsuFE0
Shaft Our State (Pt. 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quaD6RLuAio
Shaft Our Nation (Pt.4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27QOTZy_VQM
Our Human Rights Hypocrites (Pt.5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2qibkHa58
Taiwan May Determine America's Fate (Pt. 6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWEJubUhYOU
Spies On Campus
The FBI's Mission Impossible (Pt. 7)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11R5Pgrivko
Let's Give China Everything (Pt.8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tHq82qupNs
- by tomchiarello March 2, 2009 12:33 PM PST
- The economy is broken.
- Like this Reply to this comment
-
Showing 4 of 4 pages (286 Comments)Unemployment is skyrocketing.
Outsourcing/Offshoring is killing the economy !
Hundreds of American companies have sent
thousands of jobs overseas and this action
is directly responsible for skyrocketing
unemployment and our broken economy.
Here are the facts:
1. Foreign workers DO NOT PAY Federal or State Taxes.
2. Foreign workers DO NOT PAY into the
Unemployment or Social Security Funds.
3. Foreign workers DO NOT spend their money
in the United States.
4. The Federal Government gives American Businesses
"cash incentives" to hire foreign workers and
put American workers "out of work".
U.S. Dollars paid to foreign workers go overseas and
never come back. The U.S. Economy gets no benefit
from giving jobs to foreigners and is directly responsible
for the daily collapse of the U.S. Economy.
Skyrocketing unemployment is a direct result is a direct
result of Outsourcing/Offshoring.
STOP Outsourcing/Offshoring NOW before "It's Too Late".