Comments on: EU slaps Microsoft with $1.35 billion fine

European Union has fined the software maker big-time for failing to comply with sanctions imposed in 2004.

[Sumatra-Bosch]

Wrong Solution, Neelie ! Try Opening Up the Boot Loader !

This is exactly what Microsoft wants. Keep the monopoly situation and throw a few bucks in fines at the EU. Keep the lawyers in the courts and tell everyone to get cancer and die. The Microsoft Way.

How about this, Neelie? How about you attack them in a place that will open up competition without requiring any behavioral change from MSFT? (You might as well have asked Jeffrey Dahmer to become a vegan.)

How about dismantling the contacts that MSFT has with the manufacturers giving them boot loader exclusivity? It's the one think MSFT will not be able to resist. If people actually have a choice of OSes, the marketplace will correct itself. In fact, given a choice, most people will choose anything but MSFT.

This is something that Ballmer will fight to the bitter end. Throwing the EU a tip now and again is no big deal. Tearing out the heart of their monopoly power - boot loader exclusivity - will bring MSFT to its knees in a matter of years.

Do it, Neelie. Do it! Pull the trigger!

[Commander_Spock]

Hey "Sumatra-Bosch"Do Ya Wanna Take A Bet!

Here is the bet. Microsoft giving making the boot loader; and, on top of that giving the EU $9 Billion (the reported cost of the "Vista" OS) to come up with an specific EU operating System on their own. Which do you think MS' or the EU's - remembering the case of the EU Specific OS with "Media Player" a few years ago) users choice around the world would be. Lets rest the "case" here. Do you care to have "Neelie" agree this bet and from now on leave the US based Microsoft Corporation alone for good or you swim the River Thames without a life jacket or rescuers nearby.

[SeizeCTRL]

What about Apple?

Surely "complete and accurate interoperability information to rivals so their software could work with the Windows operating system" also applies to Apple?

So why isn't the EU going after Apple?

[t8]

They are not a Monopoly

Monopolies can destroy standards, companies, and innovation. Therefore they are held to higher acountability.

In music downloads Apple may be considered to have a monopoly, but no in the desktop OS market.

[Penguinisto]

What about 'em?

[i]"Surely "complete and accurate interoperability information to rivals so their software could work with the Windows operating system" also applies to Apple? So why isn't the EU going after Apple?"[/i]

...because Apple actually adheres to open standards as much as humanly possible for interoperability? Because they don't hide their formats in a binary mass of rubbish that's barely, if even, documented?

Interoperability w/ OSX is drop-easy... it's all there and documented on ADC.

Why else do you think MSFT suddenly got a case of urgency for publishing what they promise to be usable specs on .doc, .xls, Exchange, NTLM, and the like? It certainly wasn't out of some urge by Ballmer to do it out of love...

/P

[technewsjunkie]

Uh, could it be that Apple isn't a monopoly?

Yeah, that's the difference.

It's not simply about control, (though Apple has every right to
control it's products and therefore it's quality) it's about being a
monopoly and using that - to control - and stifle competition.

Got it?

[Gromit801]

Because

None of Apple's software prevents third party developers from
developing warez. OSX isn't designed to cause a problem if you
loaded Firefox and used it instead of Safari.

iTunes is not a monopoly, because there are other choices available
(even though the EU went after Apple for pricing policies), such as
Zune, etc.

[meski.oz]

What about them?

"The BSD portion of the Mac OS X kernel is derived primarily from FreeBSD"

My guess (I'm a Windows, not an OSX programmer) is that Apple are considered to be compliant in the interoperability areas that MS are not.

[t8]

Hey I have an idea for Microsoft

Why doesn't Microsoft obey the laws of each country they do business in. I estimate that they could save billions of dollars in fines.

You can have that advice for free Microsoft.

[zboot]

It would be interesting if

MS pulled out of the EU with their next OS. Totally. Then aggressively sued anyone in the EU who was running it (especially since in this hypothetical scenario, doing so would be illegal).

I wonder if:

a) They'd recoup some of the money they've lost to fines

and

b) this would be a cool experiment to see what survives as the dominant OS in a void of MS.

Forget what anyone claims about Linux or an Apple OS, this would be the true test.

Of course, MS will never take one for the team so I guess I'll never find out :-(.

[Gromit801]

Stock Holders

Seems those in here that are going out of their minds over this
fine, must stockholders or MS employees.

[Commander_Spock]

You...

... are never going to believe it; but, some might be mere outside observers wondering what the scenarios in space would have been if folks without experience of the technologies involved directing the vehicular traffic in outer space. Here is why this is being said. Consider a busy Space Port to be a busy Airport (with technically incompetent Air Traffic Controllers - EU Commissioners heading a group that has no products of their own) Against the foregoing ask yourself these questions: Consider how old is the universe and just how old is the PC computing industry in the world. Which group would you trust to be the Air Traffic Controllers at the busy Airport or the Space Port - Those from the Microsoft Corporation (the PC industry in the US) or those from the EU Commission (without the knowledge base like those from the US PC industry) We rest our case.

[andyt13]

I'm glad they were fined, now what happens

The thing I want to know is what next. Is this a done deal and Microsoft has to write a check tomorrow? Do they get another appeal? What if Microsoft refuses to pay?

[Airfighter54]

They must be doing something right

Its ironic that many years ago, when Microsoft was a small business they tried to sell the entire DOS platform to several of the large companies--IBM, Xerox, and Sperry. They all refused, saying the platform would never work. Then, when DOS took off, and Windows superceded it, and these became the premier operating systems in the world, people accuse them of being a monopoly. Well, they gave everyone the chance and they refused. Now, Those companies that refused to buy in are saying Microsoft is in the wrong. They go crying to courts such as in the EU for redress. Now, some legal tidbits--the courts in the EU can levy the fine. But since Microsoft is NOT a European company, they have absolutely NO way to force them to pay. And if the governments in the EU tried to stop sales of MS software in Europe, then the large companies that rely on that software to viably carry on their business would never allow it.

Now, just like large corporations ANYWHERE, including the EU, if Microsoft DOES pay the fine, then they will simply pass the costs of that fine on to the consumers. And since the fine was imposed in Europe, who do you think will be stuck with most of the increase?

Just remember this--like them or not, if it were not for Microsoft, the majority of you out there reading these threads wouldn't be. And if all those other software developers out there are so adamant to have free access to their technologies, then they must be doing
SOMETHING right---

[pkdino]

Airfighter-not quit right ....

Quoting Airfighter54
<?........Its ironic that many years ago, when Microsoft was a small business they tried to sell the entire DOS platform to
< several of the large companies--IBM, Xerox, and Sperry.....?.

I think we must have lived in differing universes. since your comment is not quite what I remember.

First Microsoft is a ..SOFTWARE company.
They make an item once.... and sell it millions of times.

IBM introduced the HARDWARE that became the standard desktop.
To sell a milion... they had to make a million.

The first successful office desktop PC's used the CPM operating system. I believe that OS belonged to Digital Research.
When IBM designed their first PC's, they wanted to use as much off the shelf hard/ soft ware as possible.
They approached DR about using CPM on the new IBM-PC.
DR refused to sign a non-disclosure agreement, so IBM walked.
At the time a little company called Microsoft was flogging programing languages ... M-Basic was dominate in the basic language. IBM was going to use it ..At that time the BIOS held a copy of basic, so you could boot into it.
IBM approached Gates about an operating system.
A fellow Gates knew, had a clone of DR's CPM so Gates (so I read some where) paid him $50,000 for outright ownership of "Seattle Dos".
IBM and MS released two labels of dos; MS-DOS and PC-DOS.. This dos was almost a clone of CPM ...... at least the commmands were almost the same. .
DR fought back for a while with DR-DOS .. DR Dos was always a little more advanced and had new features. I always preferred DR-Dos .. even to run MS-Windows 3.1. (the first good ms-windows on a PC ).. X windows had worked for years in the Unix environment.
Each advance made by DR-Dos ...AND add-on programs written by other shops would appear in the next version of PC/MS -Dos. Companies would only stay in business until the next release of MS dos because MS had copied the function and it was now free in the new release.
So that was the way it went, on and on.
If Now was then, the lawsuits would overwhelm the courts, but this was all new so new law had to come.
I read that the developers of the original spreadsheet VisiCalc did not even patent it.
Lotus (123).. picked it up and they defended their version tooth and nail.
So .. I guess they ( IBM and MS ) did do something right. I am not sure how RIGHT it was, but a standard came out of it.

<Quoting Airfighter54
<? ......if it were not for Microsoft, the majority of you out there reading these threads wouldn't be ...?

I must disagree -We WOULD certainly be reading these threads today. The development of the PC and the standardization of PC was done by IBM ... NOT Microsoft!
IBM allowing other manufactures sell IBM-Compatables as long as the BIOS was not a copy of the IBM BIOS ..(it could be a clone), IBM set the standard! Good or Bad at least we had a standard.
Don't worry about Microsoft?s income. Until the Tax Free dividend law was passed , Microsoft NEVER paid a dime in dividends to the stockholders. Now they pay a bit.The only way to have made money from Microsoft was to buy stock low and sell high. I thinks those days are gone now, So if you didn't by MS over the counter at $1.50 or so and sell it at a $1oo after a split or two....... well you are just like Me, DR-Dos and VisiCalc ....... we've all missed that boat.

[Commander_Spock]

Military Orders...

... OK Microsoft just tell the EU that you are under US military and banking secret orders not to hand over any codes and that the codes, documentation are buried deep in an unknown secret bunker shared between the US and Russia in the Siberian Wilderness and if they wish they can go there and demand it. Over and out. ROFL.

[Commander_Spock]

The rationale for the "ROFL"....

... that was an idea from an "caged in bunker" 800lb Gorilla called WARP (whose Source-Codes, Documentation... that apparently cannot be released) but needs its Big Brother to come on a visit with it in the Siberian Bunker. Is the EU ready for the tough expedition/excursion/exploration.... ;-)

[durlabhm]

Shame on EU

They might as well just beg on the streets for more money .. Msft is not their vending machine. I have read a lot of documentation and statistics, they are simply beggars. bloody weeds.

[Catgic]

Neelie Kroe$ Kackle$ Again

http://www.news.com/5208-1016_3-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=7042&messageID=47677&start=0
http://www.news.com/5208-1014_3-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=14314&messageID=118521&start=-1

Commissioner Kroes and her EU Band of Bagmen are at it again.

[The_Decider]

Too all the mindless MS shills

Monkey boy just admitted they deserved it:

"It says there was a past transgression and they assessed a fine for that past transgression."

So sad.

http://www.news.com/8301-13860_3-9881205-56.html?tag=tb

[Commander_Spock]

When will the EU pay...

... for their transgressions committed in Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean (re: The Atlantic Slave Trade...) over the last centuries. It's time is coming.

[Commander_Spock]

Go on Bill, tell the EU to go suck an "orange"...

... because you have a few Baby "Gorillas" (OS/2 Warp) to take care of in the South American (Amazon) and African Jungles; also, a Development Banking Relationship to enhance:

Inter-American Development Bank:

http://www.iadb.org

"IBM OS/2 Warp 3 Ad"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksFqjI3gyAo&feature=related

[Commander_Spock]

To all EU cronies who are after Microsoft's $$$....

Here, take a look at people with ambition are accomplishing while you lay wait and plot to loot the fruits of other people's labor:

"OS2LDR Replacement ver 0.1 (test version)"

http://forum.ecomstation.ru/viewforum.php?f=28

http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/cgi-bin/h-search?key=os2ldr&pushbutton=Search

Get a "life"!

[Commander_Spock]

So, what has changed about some in the EU...

... since the "dude's time?

"Cold War Nuke Bunker Opens to the Public"

"During World War II, the Nazis used slave laborers from the Buchenwald concentration camp to expand the tunnels, and hid rockets in them. A plaque to memorialize those who did the forced work is planned..."

http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7401&eeid=5722607&_sitecat=1505&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt

Read the subject line.

[nesheimbru]

friend of microsoft

Despite the attempts to placate the industry, Microsoft has really increased the union of its software with the rest of the world. Is it time to open all software to all systems and that would mesn apple, Sun et al would have to comply? Greed seems to be the factor against an open field and I think the time has come to open it.

[leslieposey]

Why the Fine

I have followed the story closely
I still dont see why the steep fine
Can someone explain to me
i would like to hear from all of you
my e-mail is [e-mail]

[Fil0403]

Because it's Microsoft.

You say you have followed the story closely but you seem to have missed a little vital detail: the name of the company being fined ("Microsoft"). Who needs good reasons to fine a company when the company you happen to have chosen to fine is hated by 99% of the world?

[Fil0403]

CNET: EU f*cks Microsoft with $1.35 billion fine

Next month: EU slaps Microsoft with $2.70 billion fine for bundling Windows with scientific calculator.

[mabradford]

$1.35 Billion

Not enough for the pain and grief Microsoft has caused not only the world who uses its products but the FUD to the industry and the masses. I for one am tired of the this journey with Microsoft's abusive nature and it is now time for it to be completely be over with. 90 percent of all Microsoft Procducts were either back-engineered, stolen or the company that created the product was bought out and shelved or completely destroyed. I believe the EU has finally sent someone to champion its peoples - God Speed and Hail to the Queen - someone has actually beat Microsoft with another monopoly at its own game. Microsoft wields the law and causes duress - now it can have some of its own medicine.

[craig0357]

Please Microsoft -- mark all future updates of any/all Microsoft products with "Not for sale or use in EU". That should do it nicely. A month from now the suit will be withdrawn. Once they can't actually use the products "legally" that 95% of the world runs their computers on and they no longer can get updates (block the EU IP's); they will reconsider. Close office in EU and lay off all EU staff or send to other non-EU countries. Call it a corporate realignment based on the economy. Think of the money you'll save in ads, staff, and especially legal fees now and in the future. Nobody will sue MS again for fear of loosing everything. GO Microsoft!

[djkoning]

I'm a small business owner. By no means am I comparing my business to MS, but I why should they hand out what they've created to other companies? Why should anybody work for free, or too little? I would be completely beside myself if the government, or the EU told me exactly how to run my business.