Comments on: Google urges ISO to give thumbs-down to Microsoft Open XML

Microsoft-backed Open XML is "insufficient and unnecessary," and should be combined with OpenDocument Format, Google's head of open-source programs says.

[ClubbieTim]

Unbalance Article

This article is one-sided and should provide Microsoft's rebuttal to Google's comments. Like everyone else, I love Google, but Microsoft is not the same Evil Empire of the 90's.

Google is ambition to take away Office market share, but last time I checked everyone uses Office, which after 10+ releases is a good product and the defacto standard. The author of this article is either biased/a poor journalist - both of which need to stay out of the media, even if it is nerd media.

[alflanagan]

Unbalance (sic) Article

Well, lets see, we can post a message about an important position taken by Google today, or we can wait a week for Microsoft marketing to draft a carefully-worded but empty rebuttal. Which shall it be?

[Commander_Spock]

IBM's Lotus "Open" SmartSuite...Duh!

"Google is ambition to take away Office market share, but last time I checked everyone uses Office, which after 10+ releases is a good product and the defacto standard. The author of this article is either biased/a poor journalist - both of which need to stay out of the media, even if it is nerd media".

Guess you have never heard of "The spreadsheet that started it all (which) offers powerful ways to work with numbers.

Also, "Check out Lotus 1-2-3 "Web tables" that let you bring in live Web info and perform analysis on it, SmartLabels and SmartFill - features that know what you want to do even before you type in the commands..."

http://www-306.ibm.com/software/lotus/products/123/

Just look who is talking about an "Unbalanced Article"?

[The_Decider]

How is the truth unbalanced?

There are indisputable facts that MS spin can explain away.

It is redundant. There already exists a standard to meet this need.

The proposal documents are incomplete and extremely convoluted. There are about 10 times more pages in the MS draft then the ODF documents. The real kicker is that the MS draft contains references to proprietary documents, which means that companies wanting to implement this can not without paying royalties and spending a lot of time figuring out this mess.

What can MS possibly say to address these fact(not opinions)?

That is the exact opposite of a standard.

The market share of Office is irrelevant, it doesn't make anything a standard, defacto or not. That is the exact opposite of the term standard. Is .docx or even .doc a standard? No! It is simply a format that MS uses for Office.

Besides, an Office suite and a document format are not the same thing.

This article is not biased, just because the truth is against MS doesn't make it so.

[mlamonica]

from the author

I think Microsoft's position on Open XML is very clear: they want it to be a standard. I've updated this article to reiterate what they've said and has been reported many times, including an article on the ballot resolution meeting from yesterday.

[rcrusoe]

Re: "not the same Evil Empire"

"Microsoft is not the same Evil Empire of the 90's." That's true,
but, IMO, it's not for a lack of trying on their part.

MS has been shackled by a combination of legal restrictions,
mainly from the EU, and their own inability to compete
successfully in markets other than OS (Windows) and Office.

That's why they appear desperate to get this passed so they can
continue to lock customers into their products.

[Sumatra-Bosch]

A Mark of Desperation by a Doomed Company

In the end, MSFT will try to control the world through file formats and law suits. OOXML is Microsoft's 'MicroChannel' architecture event not all that unlike IBM's attempt to shove the world into accepting a completely new PC architecture and charge them for the abuse. The world will barf and bolt from OOXML they way it did for MicroChannel. Then the lawyers will start dreaming up law suits to enforce MSFT's intellectual property rights to mouse clicks and the alphabet.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Conflict of interest

Google will be against this as they are directly financially involved with the results. They don't want people using Office when they could use Google web apps instead which are ad revenue supported.

I don't think it really matters what Google says when they stand to make money off the result.

[Commander_Spock]

Reasons Why 2008 Is Not Going To Be Like 1998!

Re: Extract from a 1998 Lotus Development Corporation communication;

"Re: Concerning the issues with 1-2-3 that are talked about in the documentation you gave me, most of the issues are related to converting files between older and newer versions of product and converting documents between Lotus and Microsoft. Anytime a file is saved backwards or saved with an older file format than the format the file was created under, such as saving a 1-2-3 , 97 file for Windows 95 into a WK1 format for DOS, then naturally we are expected to loose certain features due to technology and features that are present now that were not present 8 - 10 years ago. Similarly, if we try to convert a file from Lotus into Excel or Excel into Lotus, due to differences in the products not every feature will be converted perfectly with the file filters that are available. Both Lotus and Microsoft create similar spreadsheet programs; however, there are several differences in both programs and these differences will remain to distinguish the products apart. We do try to design conversion filters that will allow as much of the file formats as possible to be exchanged and converted without disrupting the actual file design and format.

In one of your letters you made mention of the @IRR and @ERR functions in the 1-2-3 product. By design the @IRR (notably "absent" in Open Office) will calculate the Internal Rate of Return; where the @ERR is used in conjunction with other formulas, posted was an "ERR" showing an error was received in the calculations. As far as I can see in the program I cannot find an @ERR function that will allow us to calculate an Economic Rate of Return"

In the below attached video substitute the "Voice of Authority" for Microsoft in 1998); and, for "Apple" for that of the "International Organization For Standardization" (ISO in 2008).

"Apple's 1984 Commercial (ISO's 2008 Commercial Why 2008 Will Not Be Like 1998)"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxShzoUjiAQ

:-) ;-) :-) ;-) :-) ;-) :-$

[cmwendy]

Preposterous to think...

...that the first ISO document standard should be the only one. And, that a process, which was designed to cut out the de facto standard, should be complicit in the gaming of the system.

[greg30307]

Government documents should be open

Some countries are beginning to mandate government
documents be in a standard format. This scares Microsoft to
death because their only competitive advantage--and the only
reason they can charge several times what Office would cost in a
competitive market--is the lock-in Microsoft has in file
formats. OOXML is a "standard" Microsoft will own and control.
Believe it or not ClubbieTim, some of us do NOT use Office.
Citizens should be able to access government documents
without having to purchase a $400-500 software suite.
Microsoft wants to make sure that does not happen. For more
details, see www.noooxml.com.

[Commander_Spock]

"Citizens should be able to access government documents...

... without having to purchase a $400-500 software suite. Microsoft wants to make sure that does not happen..." But guess what? Time has already run out on the "Performers" From The Redmond Campus. Remember back then when when they were invited to be part of the committee (the OASIS Group) for the purpose of arriving at a consensus for the establishment of an Office Format Standards... they decided to go their own way (to be absent from the ISO Standards selection Party). You see, over the years when they ruled the roost folks had no where else to turn to for dancing practice but the Redmond Campus. Fortunately, the OASIS Group had mastered the ODF Routine which has since received the ISO nod; and, with IBM's Lotus Symphony Performers with the now ISO "Sash" and for dancing lessons on their Campus for "FREE" as in "FREE BEER" time may have just run out on the Owners and Dancing Instructors from The Redmond Campus.

"Switching to Lotus Symphony (FOR FREE) is easy as 1-2-3"

http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.jspa

[JonathanBuck]

This is about ISO and IEC standards

Just a small correction to the story. The meeting taking place this week is an ISO - IEC Ballot Resolution Meeting, and the matter concerns the development of an ISO/IEC International Standard. There is no link to certification here - that's another subject altogether. IEC is one of the oldest standards bodies and joined ISO to form the Joint Technical Committee 1 in 1986 to developed IT Standards. Check out www.iec.ch for more on this little known, but major player.