Comments on: Supreme Court dumps Microsoft, Best Buy appeal

Companies had urged high court to review a class action suit that accused them of violating federal law by signing up customers for MSN without their consent.

[john55440]

Best Buy = Anti-Consumer Crooks

I don't know who is most at fault (MS or BB) in this case, but Best Buy is constantly getting caught cheating customers.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Best Try

Best Buy has a reputation for underhanded schemes. They did similar with AOL, so I can't really blame the ISP or vendor, but I can blame the retailer who pulled this sort of deal on customers.

Remember the product warranty extensions? Buy anything in the store and they would extend the warranty for an extra amount. Sales reps were pushed hard to sell warranties on anything. *Anything*.

I sort of wish I had taken them up on the offer to extend the warranty on a 4 pack of AA batteries- I could have been set up for life as a result. :)

[GGGlen]

This is news?

When I worked at CompUSA, this was standard practice.
And don't even get me started on the AOL crap we pushed.

[TucsonAlexAZ]

If the shoe fits....

"RICO was designed to deter organized crime, not to be used as a tool to force legitimate companies to pay treble damages,"

Corporations ARE the new organized crime when they foist undeclared deals like this upon consumers.

[Newspeak finder]

American courts anti-american?

If the EU took this decision there would be an outcry claiming
that the EU was: -
1/ Anti-Microsoft
2/ Anti - competition
3/ Anti - capitalist
4/ Anti- innovation
5/ Anti- American
6/ Anti-freedom
7/ Anti- innovation
8/ Communist
9/ A socialist dictatorship
etc etc etc

[protagonistic]

RE: American courts anti-american?

So what's your point?

[m.o.t.u.]

Never mind.....

just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean we're not watching.....

[suyts]

the 9th circuit

is all of the above.

[WJeansonne]

Activist socialist judges at work here

no doubt! I say throw the rascals out!!

[Understarsidream]

You've got to be joking...

We have the most conservative supreme court in 40 years and
you think they're liberal activist socialists? Alito would laugh at
being called a liberal or a socialist.

That being said, I'm not sure if this counts as RICO but it was
illegal - charging people for things they aren't aware they're
buying isn't kosher. I was in Best Buy with a friend when they
tried this on her. I wouldn't let her take the disc once I saw it
was scanned. Their story of "it's just so we can track how many
we've given away" just sat wrong with me.

[m.o.t.u.]

Never mind.......

just because you're also paranoid doesn't mean we're not watching.......

[Ming The Merciless]

Throw Out the Supreme Court ?

In refusing to review the 9th circuit case the supreme court said there was no legal issue with the courts allowing Best Buy & Microsoft to be brought to trial under RICO. Now one cannot say that the present court lacks conservative credentials. Hardly a collective group of activist judges.

[handydan918]

Not all American courts...

Just the (th circuit court. The MOST overruled judicial body in America, it should be de-certified. It is a joke. Nothing but rogue judicial activists/socialists.
The courts are supposed to interpret the law, not remake it.

[phillynets]

But Is it RICO?

The question is whether or not this is Racketeering? Oh, Best Buy and Microsoft were absolutely wrong to lie to customers - if that is indeed what happened, but are we really talking about Mob-level charges?

If I flip you off and throw my ice cream at you - was I really making a terrorist threat by using a "missle" to assault you? If you are black - was it really a "hate crime"? Or, was I just being an *******?

Neither MSN or Best Buy handled this arrangement very well. The customer was receiving between $200 and $400 off the purchase of a computer - at least that's how it was for the rest of us during this time. In exchange, the customer signed up for MSN internet. Was it good internet service? It was okay. Nothing special - but they gave you between $200 and $400 on the spot for signing up.

Other retailers had you sign contracts. I am not familiar with how Best Buy handled it, but since their employees always seem like they are a few fries short of a happy meal... I imagine they would say "inventory control" when asked about the MSN Trial CD.

Did any of these people get the MSN Instant Rebates? Maybe it was RICO if they didn't.

[Neo Con]

I'm torn

I'm not sure if RICO is the right way to go about this, but I have to say, as one victim of this fraud, I have to side with the plaintiff on this.

I was "stealth" signed-up for this service and later started getting billed for a service that I never used. Luckily, my financial institution reimbursed me for all the fraudulent charges, but MS & Best Buy definitely need to burn for this f!@$-up.

[Understarsidream]

It may be a different issue...

I think they're talking about the "promotion" they were running
where they would give you a disc with anything you purchased.
They were telling people it was free trial software and the scanning
was just to keep count. I remember reading when all this began
they would even ask customers paying with cash to give them a
credit card to get the free disc. If they were tricking people into
giving their credit cards (and people were dingy enough to give it
to them) without telling them what is was actually being used for....
I would have to give the nod to the people suing.

[mikkyd]

???????????

First of all,anyone that thinks this is anti-American are themselves Anti-American.
America was founded on rights that are governed By the people,and most importantly FOR the people!
If any large/small business out there that will do ANYTHING to make money,including going behind their backs,need to be hung out to dry!
I myself am a businessman,but I make money
honestly and respectfully and if they can't respect the American people and their HARDEARNED
minimum wages that the Government themselves set out for the American people,Then they too are ANTI-AMERICAN!!!

[C_G_K]

Throw the book at them

They got caught deceiving and ripping off customers illegally. I hope this ends up costing these con artists millions. That would be sweet.

[Elidine]

Being Lazy Dosen't give you the right to sue!

I find it hard to believe this story in part because I worked at best buy for over 2 years while going to college. My time spent there was great. The discount was pretty good at the time and there were no commissions to worry about.

My department was the computer dept. and yes we were told to try to up sell products and accessories. (But what company doesn?t do this?)

With all computer purchases we had to advise the customer that their purchase (in most cases) came with 6 months free MSN OR AOL.

If you agreed to this then you had a freebie ISP for 6 months. The caveat to that is that you either need to call to cancel the service after the 6 months or they would begin billing you.

I know that on lesser purchases they would offer 30 days free of either MSN or AOL also. ( I know they are offering magazine subscriptions now)

If you didn?t want it, then you shouldn?t have accepted the disk. Its as simple as that. I believe it even says what the terms and conditions are on the actual sales receipt that would have had your user name on it that you chose at the store.

How is this different than if you agreed to try any trial service that required a secured method of payment before you were granted the item to try?

People don?t read their receipts, nor do they read their contracts. Who?s fault is that?

I now work in insurance and I see that same issue in this field. PEOPLE DON?T READ THEIR CONTRACTS! Then get upset when they didn?t realize they had to do something to end the free service before they were charged.

If people got charged for something they didn?t intend on keeping then they should dispute the charge on their credit card. Simple as that. Why try to sue and get something for nothing? I wish corporations could sue people for being ignorant. They should call it the stupidity tax.

Now before I get called a best buy lover or anything like that I should warn you of two things. First, I hate shopping at best buy. Their prices are too high and the employees they hire now a days are idiots. Second, I always have bad luck when I buy hardware from them. Normally I have to return about 40% of the items I buy there due to the fact it is either broken in the box or its DOA.

Plain and simple here folks. If you don?t want the free trial, say no and don?t take the disk.

[rdupuy11]

Treble damages is a gentle rebuff

Don't let these lawyers fool you, treble damages is not a nuclear bomb, its a mild form of rebuff, MAX.

Our local car dealer isn't allowed to tell lies either, and if he gets caught, he is also liable for treble damages...guess what, he lies every single year. Because its way more profitable to pay treble damages from the RARE lawsuit, than to follow the law.

In his case, he states everyone can be approved. 5 years ago, I thought, great, my wife has no credit, this will get her established. He said, of course, we cannot approve her, you have to have credit...DUH...very rude. It's the way they operate. So what were the damages? A trip to the dealership, some wasted time, some gas.

Fact is their needs to be statutory damages for this type of fraud, otherwise, it never stops.

What did these people pay...$20 a month for a few months....Best Buy can pay treble damages and laugh all the way to the bank on the killer profit they made....they aren't worried about losing this case.

They need to lose this case, and a whole lot more...the law needs to be changed to allow for PUNITIVE damages, not treble damages.

[rdupuy11]

p.s. Single mom pays $9000 per infractions

Do the math. Someone loses $100 on a Best Buy Fraud...Best Buy can pay treble for $300.


Single Mom gets caught downloading some MP3's she didn't pay for, jury throws the book at her over $9000 per 99 cent song.

That isn't 'treble' (times 3) that is TIMES ONE THOUSAND DAMAGES.

They say it was to send a message....the message is that juries are out of their freakin' heads...this is their one shot at fame, they aren't wasting it.

Anyway...something is out of whack. Treble damages, vs. x1000 damages....its all if you are a huge corporation, where damages are limited to a trivial amount, and they have the unmitigated gall to complain about it and expect to find sympathy....and x 1000 damages for the consumer, if they get caught doing something wrong.

[inachu]

this bad.

BALLYS does similar tactics like offering a free month if you sign up a friend.

But the free month never came.

So I quit. If part of the reason for signing up is from a TV commercial and they do not grant what the TV commercial offered then the contract is null and void.

[R.Jefferson]

What do you expect from BestBuy

They ask for your telephone number and SSN before they scan your items, what would you expect from such a company.

[disco-legend-zeke]

Buy QWEST DSL, Get MSN without even being told you have a choice.

Over the years QUEST and MSN have been diverting and stealing customers from the smaller ISPs.

DSL in QWEST cities works identically to Long Distance, you buy the local loo[p from QWEST and then have a choice of Internet companies.

However, consumers are not told this, and as a result get tricked into becoming MSN customers.

Then, just to add injury to deceit, QWEST limits the bandwidth available to DSL users. Even though you pay for 1.5 megs download speed, if you actual usage exceeds unspecified limits, you will be contacted by QWEST and told you need a "real" T-1 at 20 times the price.

[zeroplane]

They suckered me too! Service nothing to what was advertised.

Yep they suckered me too.

It took two months of calls and emails to get the server disconnected. Qwest would transfer me to MSN and the would round robin me to a voice mail box.

Meanwhile they continue to charge me $50/mth for an account that didn't deliver what was advertised.

I switched to a local ISP and boom the speed and unfiltered connections increased.. But still the advertised speed was never there.. DSL sucks!

I moved to Comcast Cable and I get an average of 1 to 2 meg/sec but never get 8 meg/sec.. Now Comcast is throttling connections to as low as 100kB/ps!! What the hell is this?

Monopolistic companies who don't actually provide what they advertise.. the idea is to oversell with the expectation that the user will never actually use the promised bandwidth.

Total racket!

[Ming The Merciless]

It Is It Is RICO !!!!

Section 1962(c) prohibits any defendant person from operating or managing an enterprise through a pattern of racketeering activity. So long as a civil RICO plaintiff is injured by reason of the defendant's operation or management of the enterprise through a pattern of racketeering, the plaintiff is entitled to treble damages, attorneys' fees and costs under section 1964(c) (commonly referred to as RICO's civil liability provision).
Microsoft and Best Buy entered into an agreement to put in place daily operational practices that systematically defraud customers. Ergo racketeering.

[Elidine]

Lawsuit should be thrown out!

Please see my first post to see where I am coming from.

http://www.news.com/5208-10784_3-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=32052&messageID=322607&start=0

I understand that some people may not have know what ?Free Trial? meant. The fact is that some people just stopped reading after they saw the word ?Free?

Some people didn?t ask if there were any conditions of accepting the disk.

I agree to a point that Best Buy probably had a goal of how many trials they had to ?give? away. I also concede that some employees will be less than upfront about the true conditions of the ?free trial?

However, I do not believe that this lawsuit has any merit. As I said before, it wasn?t just MSN and Best Buy, AOL was also doing the ?Free Trial? service also. Why isn?t their name listed on the lawsuit also?

This all goes back to the common sense saying ?If it sounds too good to be true?.?

I still am not understanding who lost money here? If there were charges not authorized on peoples credit cards then they should have taken the steps to file a disputed charge with their credit card / bank. If the consumer did not file those disputed charges with their card company then that is their choice/fault.

People are just mad that they got charged for something that they forgot to cancel.

When they installed the software on their system I know for a fact that it makes you agree to their terms and conditions. Who?s willing to bet that none of those people even read what they were agreeing to?

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