Comments on: Japan discovers electric cars. Is it doomsday for EV start-ups?

Subaru is set to show off an electric car prototype. Nissan has plans for EVs. With big names discovering electric cars, how long can the new guys last?

[open-mind]

EV "not a replacement of traditional vehicles"

They are if you include an on-board generator:

http://www.gm-volt.com

40 mile range from the batteries plus 600 mile range range from the gas generator.

[jlfelder]

Or Have Fast Recharge Batteries

A 120 mile range BEV only car can replace a "traditional" car if the batteries can be recharged in about the same amount of time that a gas tank can be refilled. AltairNano batteries (the ones in the Phoenix Motors truck) have demonstrated 10 minute recharge times.

With these batteries longer trips become possible. With 120 mile range (I would prefer a little longer, say 150-175) a driver would have to stop at a recharge station about every two hours. True a gas car might have a 300-400 mile range, but my bladder doesn't. Its good for about 2-3 hours, and then I have to be finding a restroom anyway.

So pure battery powered car could be your only car when there are high power recharging stations up and down the Interstates, probably as an adjunct product at current gas stations.

In the mean time use your BEV as a town car and then rent a gas powered car for road trips. I already do this and I have a Honda Accord.

[acampbell3]

Will automakers introduce electrics?

We have seen more prototype electric cars from the major automakers than you can shake a stick at. Obviously they could build electric cars, but that remains to be seen and I think the start-ups play an important role in forcing the issue. It could be that a few start-ups could take the lead and show other car companies what is possible, but it will also mean that the car companies that don't compete might be doomed. Big changes are afoot in the auto industry and I wouldn't just talk about Japan. Korea has much more momentum and China is the x factor that I think has the potential to change everything. ~ Alex Campbell, ZAP

[acampbell3]

Subaru - Join ZAP

ZAP has licensed state-of-the-art electric and hybrid drivetrain technology. Let's do a JV to bring electric and plugin hybrid suvs and awd wagons to market. That's what people want. All my ski buddies in Tahoe would jump on that.

[tonybelding]

No Doomsday

The showings of a few Japanese "concept cars" aren't going to
make the start-ups lay down and die. If anything it provides
validation for the EV concept. People who weren't sure if this
whole EV idea made sense are now going to say: it makes sense
to Nissan and Subaru and Mitsubishi. There must be something
worth pursuing.

As for whether start-ups can compete. . . The barriers to entry
in the car business have never been lower, and start-ups may
even have some big advantages. The article mentions
distribution -- but established car companies are locked into a
painfully outdated and inefficient dealership system. Companies
like Tesla have an opportunity to bypass that system completely.

[billdale]

Minoru Shinohara: "EVs not a replacement for conventional cars": WRONG!

Mr Shinohara, vice-president of Nissan, has made the same mistake Roger Smith and every other exec at the "old guard" car makers are guilty of: they have become all too comfortable with the status quo, and are incapable of seeing the need and demand for an alternative to dirty, expensive, inefficient fossil fuels.

There are many things about EVs that are fundamentally different than gasoline cars-- but nothing that will keep the public from flocking to EVs even if they cost more initially.

EVs are more expensive, but cost far less than internal combustion engine (ICE) cars to operate-- typically a tenth to a fourth as much-- and require far less maintenance. It is easier, simpler and far more convenient to take two or three seconds at home to plug an EV in than to stop for ten minutes at a time to refuel at a gas station every 200 miles or so; when you plug your car in, you do not have to wait around until the charge is complete as you do when you are at a gas station waiting for the tank to fill.

Perhaps Mr. Shinomura is so out of touch as to think that all EVs take hours to charge-- true, the Tesla and some others take hours to charge, and that can be significant on rare occasion, but battery chemistries that require more than a few minutes to recharge are doomed: the Altair NanoSafe battery, the A123 Systems battery, and supercapacitor formulas from several companies can be recharged as quickly as one can refuel a car.

So even if there are some EVs about to enter the market with slow-charging batteries, by the time those same EVs need their batteries replaced, quick-charge batteries will replace them... and those replacement batteries will last much longer and will likely be much cheaper as well.

There IS nothing stopping EVs from replacing ICE cars almost completely, and very quickly. There will be some diehards that will want to continue to drive ICE cars out of stubbornness or because they are irrationally attached to the burble of an exhaust, but nearly everyone, when they see the enormous benefits of EVs, will abandon ICEs as readily as they abandoned floppy drives a decade ago.

EVs will need no extensive and expensive infrastructure the way ethanol, fuel cells, and other alternatives would require-- we already have home electrical service that can handle nearly all the charging needs any of us will ever have-- just a few dozen fast chargers scattered over a city can handle the few local drivers that will need immediate recharges. We'll also need just a few more between major cities for cross-country drivers.

I am quite sure Mr. Shinohara does not personally use an EV. If he did, he would certainly notice differences in the way he drove, but he would just as certainly notice that driving an EV is actually much more convenient and practical than an ICE car could ever be.

Lastly, if Mr. Shinohara is under the illusion that EVs will somehow increase the need for more power generators, he needs to google "V2G", or vehicle to grid-- he'll be surprised to see that EVs will actually REDUCE the need for power generators rather than INCREASE them.

Do your homework, Mr. Shinohara-- and start driving an EV so you understand the issues from a personal perspective.

[mikeweston]

An EV can replace a car, sometimes

As others have pointed out, if there are fast charge batteries and plenty of recharging stations, then an EV can completely replace a "regular" car. Or if you're willing to rent for longer trips, that's another way to make it work.

But even better for many of us in multiple car families is to have at least one "regular" car (preferably a hybrid -- plug-in when they become available) for longer trips and then one or more EVs for commuting. So for now replace *one* of your cars with an EV.

My guess is that if all multi-car families replaced one of those cars with an EV, that would still be a huge market for all the EV companies. And would make a huge difference in pollution and greenhouse gases.

So I really hope the car companies, old and new, stop waiting for the car that can replace all cars and just give us something with enough range for most commutes and a little extra for an errand or two. We'll buy that now.

[EV Lover]

Electric Vehicles - EVs - Market enough for all

Mitsubishi, Renault and Subaru will be first to sell full-sized EVs in home markets. Tesla, Phoeniz, Commuter Cars and several other US EV makers will beat major makers to American consumers. If GM actually mass-produces the Volt and Vue PHEVs, perhaps we'll have major-maker pure EVs in the US within five years.

The demand for cleaner cars is already large; real zero-emission vehicles will sell in the millions per year, when petro-fuels will top five dollars per gallon by 2012.