Comments on: European Union court rejects Microsoft's appeal in historic case

Court of First Instance sides with European Commission on Windows interoperability, bundling of Windows Media Player and the amount regulators fined the company.

[ejryder3]

Does This Mean Apple is next?

The last time I looked, OS makers "bundled" all sorts of things with their OS. The all come with browsers and ways to play sound files. The OS would be pretty worthless out of the box without them.

Specifically, Apple comes with Quicktime installed. Are they not guilty of the same thing that MS is with Media Player?

This whole thing is obviously just a way for a failing welfare state to extract money from a successful business. The United States needs to practice reprocity with the EU and other nations. Level the playing field so that all companies play by the same rules.

[BobZune]

Blah - FOCUS!

Monopolies have different rules they have to play by. Apple, with its <5% OS worldwide market share, does not have an issue. Look at the criteria used by the EC and the Court. Apple doesn't have to be next as for as your question relates to OS/bundling, but in hand held MP3 players, they should very well be careful enough not to crush competition by abusing their "monopoly" (there is a matter of market share and proof etc).

As a citizen and consumer, I like the way the court upheld the EC position in the interest of serving justice. Whether it is against Microsoft, Apple, or a European company is not at issue.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Unfortunately yes, realistically no.

The arguments that the EU has used against Microsoft do unfortunately apply 100% to Apple as well. If they push for it, they can force Apple to sell their computers without an operating system, as well as make their OSX code now open to all, and finally force them to sell OSX without any other bundled applications (all the iProducts). They can use the same argument then on the iPhone (no applications can be loaded by third party which is a violation of the EU's decision), the iPod (same thing), etc.

Will it happen? No. Apple is too small of a target and doesn't have the money that the EU wants.

If anyone thinks this is about anything other than money, then they are fooling themselves. The EU is only interested in the money from the fines, not actually 'helping' the citizens. They forced MS to put out Windows without WMP with it. The product didn't sell. The end users still bought the product with WMP.

If the citizens that the EU is supposed to be representing don't agree with the EU, then what is the EU for in the first place? All those monetary fines sure aren't going to the citizens- it's all going to internal processing and funding needs by the EU panel itself.

But yeah, Apple would be guilty as well. If you think about it, Ford is also guilty because they sell their cars in Europe complete with a steering wheel. There are other companies that make steering wheels too, but because they don't include them with your new Mustang, then the company is guilty of the same thing. It's exactly the same problem and they can start demanding money from pretty much any company they want to target.

I'm certainly glad we don't have the EU in the US deciding for us what companies can and cannot offer their customers.

[Penguinisto]

Jingoism and other idiocies

Hate to break it to you, but MSFT isn't the only corp in the docket... Volkswagen (not exactly a US corp, is it?) recently got slapped quite hard by the same courts.

You wanna sell in their sandbox? You do it by their rules, you you don't sell there.

Don't like it? Deal.

/P

[WJeansonne]

Well, it looks like the Socialist E.U. has prevailed.

If I were Microsoft, I would seek assistance from the U.S. Department of Commerce and use some for of retribution against the E.U. effective immediately. That commission is has nothing other than a socialist agenda to shake down a wealthy U.S. company to help fund its operations. Now they intend to go after Intel and other American companies using concocted and trumped up anti-competitive charges.

The socialists are definitely on the march!

[BobZune]

No politics needed - guilty is guilty

It is not a question of "retribution". It is a question of a monopoly abusing its position and being found guilty, fined, appealing the fine, and the appeal court confirming the abuse/fine.

Note the US federal court found Microsoft guilty as well (except with a slap on the wrist for fine). Both EC and Court of First Instance (similar to the US federal court in 2000) have done an exceedingly thorough job of reasoning.

No need to bring in political arguments in to this. Stick to points that have merit on THIS case.

[sanenazok]

I agree

Europe is the last of all places to accuse MS of a monopoly, and on top of that IN THE SERVER MARKET or better yet the MEDIA PLAYER MARKET. Total Eurocrap. I guess Eurocrats haven't heard about the popularity of iTunes or about the endless -nix server operating systems that give MS a run for its server money.

I think the article gets it right by suggesting that MS will now need an "audience" with the European Court of Justice. Europe works about as well as a medieval court.

[ArtInvent]

Yeah, Europe should just allow the US to dominate its IT

If the shoe were on the other foot, and we in the US were all running our IT on European processors and software, and but one European company controlled the OS and office software on 90% plus of our computers - including governmental and defense computers - we in the US wouldnt have a problem with that at all, would we?

Watch MS just shrug this off. A near BILLION dollar fine. Won't have an effect on them one bit, and they keep their dominant position. 90% of Europeans will still go out like lemmings for their new computers with Windows Blister. But heavens no, they're not a monopoly . . .

[mwendy]

Lopping off the highest poppy

The EC as top IT cop - for an industry dominated by American IT companies. Sounds like a trade issue to me instead of anything fact-driven.

I suspect now the EC has the amunition to go after other American companies that have "special obligations" to play fair with competitors - if even in a dynamic and competitive marketplace.

This is one way to ensure that no one gets ahead of lackluster EU IT companies. Problem is, those very same companies that asked for help will now be in the crosshairs themselves.

[Penguinisto]

Just say No to drugs, kiddo.

No, this isn't a case of trade wars or other nationalistic crap.

MSFT got slapped for breaking the laws (again) - deal.

PS: I'm looking forward to see if MSFT actually opens up their Exchange and AD protocols as they'd just been ordered to :)

/P

[mcepat]

European Union Court Rejects Apple's appeal

Interoperability. The court agreed with the Commission that Apple was stifling competition by withholding access to ITunes music store, and not letting Ipods connect to other music stores and locking the players and the store from other vendors

Bundling. The court upheld the Commission's decision that Apple was bundling every product they own together--the Apple OSX system and its Itunes, Iphoto, Imovie, Igarage and safari--as a means to lock out competition.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Apple simply isn't a target

They don't have the billions and billions laying around as easy cash to try to take like the EU is doing to Microsoft.

There's no point in trying to squeeze a turnip. They know where the real money is and are going after that. Apple simply doesn't have the money the EU wants.

Yes, they are guilty of exactly the same things, and who knows- perhaps they will be next on the list, but I doubt it.

[Microsoft_Facts]

Getting it done in the EU where the US failed.

When considering all the harm Microsoft has done to society at large, I don't think the EU's action goes far enough. But at least they got something done unlike the US slap on the wrist.

[chash360]

Too bad our courts take too many brides...

Too bad that we could not have made that correct decision with the whole OS with IE integrated thing. Will MS now integrate WMP into the OS and then claim they are integral parts that can't be separated...thats how they got away with it last time. There is no difference, these are separate functions just like web browsing, the user should have a choice. Actually I don't mind them bundling, as long as you can remove what you don't want, or install anything you do want instead. That is where the IE case should have gone, because like it or not you can not have the OS without IE now. P.S. I reccommend VLC instead of WMP it does not collect personal user info, or follow embedded links, or execute embedded code, is open source, with lots of flexibility and programability, and best of all free! Hail the open source code warriors!

[Stormspace]

Not Quite

As I read the article to be considered a tying product that product cannot be made available without the OS. In QT's situation Apple offers it for free to Windows users so it doesn't meet the criteria. Does make me wonder if MS had made media player available to older Windows OS's if the ruling would have been the same.

[NickH]

or available on other OSs?

What if MS had made Media Player available for Apple and Linux, what would have happened then?

Sound far fetched. Its worth noting that Silverlight is cross-browser and available for on Macs from Microsoft, and they have some kind of agreement with Novell for a Linux version.

Now, you might think that Silverlight is going nowhere, but if you assume that it really does give Flash/Flex a run for its money, then MS could find itself in trouble again. If they have made it available Linux and Mac too, would that undermine any anti-trust action against them.

[Commander_Spock]

Simple solutions for Microsoft!

Reach an agreement with the Brazilian and Guyanese governments to move your European based operations into this region then decide if it is going to be the "Silent" CONCORDE or the DREAMLINER; or both; in this way market access to Microsoft products to the Indian Sub-Continent as well as Super Sonic Travel or Dreamliner's comfort styles will be over simplified and folks all over the world would forget that Europe really do exists. After all, Americas Fighting Forces are enabling Americans (as well as all others who are here to sleep at nights) without France's help. It is quite simple - remove your European based operations and spread them throughout the United States and the rest of the Americas.

The Final Solution.
There must be some lower-paid skilled labor to be found in an estimated 12 million undocumented community. Have the Europeans pay for what they wish to have or develop their own - Tequila, if the French "wines" will not do.

[Commander_Spock]

"folks all over the world....

... would forget that Europe really do exists"; notice what is already happening to AIRBUS 380 in this DREAMLINING AGE. This is what you call competition.

[bama3]

Is MS really that bad?

People have mentioned the facts of the case. Media Player has been part of the Microsoft Windows for years. Why did this not become a monopoly issue until Windows 98? It was not an issue in Windows 95?

Also, why does everyone feel that MS is out to ruin everything. I can understand not liking their software but it seems as if a lot of people hear feel that the company purposely trys to make bad software. If this is a business discussion, is the goal not to be the best in your business?

[Renegade Knight]

Yes they are that bad.

I have two Vista computers and three copiesof Vista. One unused. MS used a DMCA take down notice to block the sale of my unused Vista.

Meanwhile in troubleshooting a problme I'm having on a Vista computer I failed to "validate" which was a big PITA since the software is all legit.

MS business practice has moved from competing to controlling.

[jc4691]

Consumers want MORE bundling, NOT LESS!

NO one would buy a computer that is less useful out-of-the-box. People want computers that do MORE with less fuss. Look at what happened to the XP lite fiasco.

The only sensible solution is for the EU to force hardware manufacturers to allocate a portion of the harddrive (10% is plenty) to an alternate O/S in dual boot mode. Dell is already doing this on some of their computers. Problem solved. No more monopoly and rampant competition.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Except...

Which alternative OS would you put on that dual boot partition? If it's Linux, which flavor? If it's BSD, which one? And if it's a commercial product, then who do you pay for the licensing... or do you now have to sue because X company's alternate OS was on the hard drive and not Y company's? You'd have to include every single OS available on the planet on that system to avoid favortism.

It just isn't feasable.

[sanenazok]

don't give them ideas

The last thing you want is Eurocrats telling computer companies how hard drives should be partitioned. If this were ever a regulation then Euroregs would take ten years of bickering to pick an operating system that would have to be included. Most likely they would pick AmigaOS or the Atari ST.

Remember it took Europe a full 3 years to decide the definition of "mineral water" and that was even without any real period of comment from the public.

So the real solution is make sure that MS does not punish computer makers for giving people options. Computer makers themselves will decide what the users want as far as OS options.

[xyzzxy]

Hey Europe innovate don't regulate

Perhaps instead of trying to compete in IT by regulating succesful companies, Europe should actual produce some significant IT. Seems like old Europe can't compete on the merits of its own technology, rather it needs to use its bureaucracts. This decision is ridiculous.

Both iTunes and Rhapsody are much more succesful than any MS offering. It seems that a fair marketplace existed all along for media players and that has nothing to do with European meddling.

As for servers, perhaps Europe should now try and protect poor Sun Microsystems against the onslaught of Linux. Linux does very well against MS on servers and may yet prevail. Nothing the courts have today will change this. It will be decided by IT staffs around the world based on the value of each platform.

Europe you should be ashamed!

[j_a_s_p_e_r]

Its just anti-americanism

Who are the foreign revenue producers in the united states?

Tech, Pharma, Aerospace

The EU seems to have a knife out for any of the companies that have a significant impact on the US GDP.

Its a common misconception that if a company has a profit of X then we as people have X less. Its a synergistic system, any many oversimplify and don't understand the complexities.

We have a trade deficit that we can only make up if we sell more to Europe and the rest of the world than they sell to us. They know this and they want to hurt us. Its an unfair game. Just look at the illegal funding of the EU on Airbus, it cause Boeing significant damage.

[oxtail01]

Talking like a true American - uninformed

Last time I looked Boeing was kicking Airbus's tail. Also, in case you didn't hear, there were several States within the US that sued MS for anti-trust violations. Yes, it's an unfair game - except it's MS who's playing it!

[mkikm]

Antitrust laws are useless

There is a reason that Microsoft is even able to leverage its market share in operating systems to promote its other softwares in the first place - it is a successful company. Bill Gates and co. rightly identified a market opportunity in the 80's and 90's and seized it. It's all shrewd business sense. It's too bad that IBM, Apple, and others don't like Microsoft's dominance in the OS market; they should have done more to seize upon the early periods of growth in the PC. They didn't and now they want to use the law to compete instead of actual business strategies. That to me spells incompetence. As for the companies that didn't exist back when Microsoft achieved its OS success, like Google and its desktop search, well, make a genuinely better product and do the necessary marketing to get people to convert. Don't expect Microsoft to hand you the marketshare on top of a court ruling.

In the same way, all the European hubbub over Apple's strategy regarding the iPod and iTunes is nonsense. Again, Apple saw a golden opportunity that no one else did and created a successful product. Don't like it? Make something better that consumers will like. Don't rely on your courts to remedy you for your strategic blunder.

[webbod]

EU courts have balls as well as teeth

Does anybody remember the start of this story - years ago when Sun, Apple, Real, etc all ******* and whined at the EU competition commission - on and on they moaned wasting millions of euros with their constant whinging and moaning - until the commission launched an investigation, in much the same way that authorities in Korea, Japan and the USA did - unlike the USA it's pretty difficult to lobby your way round the European Courts system.

I don't know what the problem is - all I'm reading is "boo hiss it's all anti-american"... all they're trying to do is level the playing field so that third-party providers e.g. Real and other operating systems e.g. Linux can have access to markets that Microsoft had more or less sewen up.

Hats off to the EU guys for having the balls to stand up to major employer, Microsoft could easily decide to relocate and that's a risk they are prepared to take, I'd much rather live in a fair society than a plutocracy.

[o2mcgovem-20822100750713932708]

Media Player?

To be honest, Microsoft had it coming.

Although, I don't get the Media Player thing... Apple iTunes is the most popular media player, so why would they say WMP is locking out competition?