Comments on: If you're Steve Ballmer, don't read this

While the rest of the nation celebrates Independence Day, Microsoft gets more confirmation that its once legendary domination over the desktop is slipping away.

[MaLvaDo39]

Microsoft proud of Vista???

Hahahahaha, it's still a backwards, upside down copy of Apple's
OSX.

Ouch, my stomach!

[Dachi]

Why shouldn't they be?

Even as bad as people hate Vista MS has sold millions of copies anyway. They are in the business of making money and as a money generator Vista is still a success.

People don't seem to like Vista, so what does that mean to MS?

It means that if the next version of Windows is average rather than bad people will flock to buy it even if they just purchased Vista.

I will say though that my GF was going to purchase a laptop from Dell and didn't because she could not get it with XP on it. We got her a refurb for a fraction of the price and loaded XP on it.

[dbrock35]

Like my boss says...

Microsoft was the first to make computing available to the masses. They were the first to make a usable operating system (Windows 95). They were the first to invent corporate email (Exchange 4.0). Microsoft ionvented the enterprise web server (IIS 3.0). The list goes on and on. My boss is right. He is a CIO and I am honored to work with him. Microsoft will not only survive, they will CRUSH the competition.

[timashman]

What have you been smoking

Geez! Get a grip

[cwallstar]

are you sure?

So when you say "first usable operating system" you mean the first PC OS that was home-user friendly, right? Maybe I'm mistaken, but some company named Apple released a GUI OS with a pretty clean interface back in 1984. Not to mention the fact that Unix has been a legitimate business option for years. I'm a PC user that runs WinXP, I know loads about every MS OS from DOS 5.X to Windows XP with the exclusion of Win 3.11 and WinNT, but I will never bow down and give MS the undue credit which you have bestowed upon them.

[t8]

You are being funny right?

I am sure this guy is just being sarcastic.

If not, then I pity this man. But I am sure that no one could be that stupid.

Nice one. Funny ha ha.
You got us.

[polax81]

Dude

Yup!!! My friend happens to be an IT manager with a company his boss calls a "Microsoft shop" - and his attitude to alternatives to Windows are just the same as yours. However he is not so much a Kiss-a** like you are .

Dude - wake up and read the news. Even MS doesn't pretend its the only choice around.

[DieSse]

Well one of my old bosses ....

... had a Teletype machine in his office, with a placard on it that said "95% market share is never for ever".

Teletype Corp - where are they now? (Operations ceased around 1990. - Wikipedia)

[Albertv]

He, your boss, said with tongue in cheek

And if he did not, your boss is not a computer historian. Further more about "crushing the competition", your bosses mind set is stuck in the last century and if you want a long career I would advice you start looking for a company which will be around longer than your boss's.

[Thomas, David]

Crude Sarcasm?

It startled me, then I could only chuckle.

I am pretty sure,
by your thinly vieled use of the word "first", that you
posted this as a joke.

kudos

[mwil19]

dbrock35's boss is a hack

Dbrock, maybe if you weren't so blindly honored in your boss'
presence, you'd see that of the 3 facts your boss asserted, he was
wrong exactly 3 times. People like you make the best employees.
Little worker bees :)

[intrepi]

MS isn't going to crush anyone or anything

Microsoft isn't going to crush anyone or anything and visa versa. You talk with the maturity of an adolescent, grow up. Linux and Mac have been and will continue to be around for as long as Microsoft.
The choices are there to make but stop blowing this out of proportion, keep it realistic and your emotions out of your dialogue. You'll be fine, you sound like a nice person so be nice, real, positive with a constructive viewpoint.

[georgiarat]

Remember IBM?

I remember when corporate CIO's (not called that then) said the
same about IBM and their lemmings in the IT shops all said the
same thing. Of course along came Microsoft and the PC's to
undermine their computing world and the Internet devastated
SNA.

I also remember the firings and the vast number of IBM
lemmings that were fired and had to go retool.

It is just a matter of time. Microsoft has become to large, too
slow, and too arrogant just as IBM was in those days.

Enjoy the moment.

[jackbutler5555]

SNA

Yes, IBM did indeed fail to understand that open networking was the future. But the open networking advocates at the time failed to understand the importance of SNA-like network security.

Microsoft developers used to laugh at the amount of code IBM developers were writing to ensure OS/2 security. Now the MS code is fat -- but still vulnerable.

We were missing a genius back then -- the guy or gal who could produce under open standards and yet preserve security. As a matter of fact, we could still use that genius, eh?

[intrepi]

You are so right, more right than you say

The Dos wars were won by Microsoft not because MS was better but because IBM was a big, money grubbing company that wanted more money for their DOS software. MS was small, more affordable, likeable, very likeable but it's grown to be bigger and worse than IBM as they not only want the most they can get for their OS but have gone into markets that have little to do with computers to exploit as much as they can get. Ever hear of Expedia.com well there are others but with all the hardware, software and add ons, I for one have opted out of buying, supporting or using MS products of any kind. Time has come for a change

[t8]

They deserve it

Microsoft had this coming for a long time. What do you expect when the greatest innovators on the Windows platform are attacked viciously by none other than Microsoft themselves.

Let?s have a quick look at the history of some of the best products that were made available on Windows.

Netscape Browser, ICQ, Word Perfect, Lotus Notes, to name a few.

What happened with all these once dominant products?

Microsoft near killed them by bundling their version with Windows or doing illegal deals with OEM?s that required them to bundle Microsoft?s stuff and not the competition.

So is it any wonder that after a couple of decades of abuse that the Windows platform is waning in 3rd party applications? Of course not, and to add to the proof, it is now common knowledge that VCs don?t put their money into projects that are dependent on Windows for the same reasons I gave above.

Now compare the Windows Platform to that of Linux and Open Source. Well in the Open Source world, everyone is free to create whatever they want. In the Linux world there is true democracy in that big and little guys can display their wares on that platform without having to worry about a company called Linux who will rip your stuff off (you know what I am saying).

In addition to this, the other major reason is the rise and rise of the Web as a platform. It is also worth noting that VC?s happily fund projects that are web based.

But part of the reason why the Web and Linux are both rising is because they are open platforms that encourage innovation rather than killing it, as you see in the Windows world. The Windows platform is a deadly ecosystem where lurks a a great enemy ready to take over your market if you are successful.

So who?s fault is it that Microsoft Windows is declining in 3rd party apps? Well it doesn?t take a genius to work that out. It is the companies greed and historical record that puts people off their platform.

So Microsoft deserves the predicament that they are in now. The trends all point to open platforms and Microsoft is a closed, controlled, even an abusive platform.

Can Microsoft change this? I doubt it. Can a leopard change its spots?

Even if Microsoft changed to being completely open like Linux and the Web, it would be too late. Both these 2 platforms have too much momentum and that momentum isn?t going to die overnight either.

[theosux]

mmkay

Once I noticed your list of best products on Windows included the horrible Netscape browser of those days and the even worse Lotus Notes, the rest of your essay just wasn't worth reading. Sorry.

[rubenerd]

I agree with Corejob

I don't see how you think Corejob was living under a rock.

Sure different vendors have been signaling a half-arsed approach to Linux support for a while now, but it's only been in the last year or so where the effect has started to snowball. The fact that Dell, the former poster boy for "Wintel" has finally shown it's ready to change signals to me a real paradigm shift.

The question now becomes not whether Linux will be supported, but how many vendors will support it, and whether it will finally become mainstream in the home market, something which has really yet to happen in a big way yet.

[rubenerd]

Whoops

I'm sorry, that comment was supposed to be tacked onto the top thread.

[Dachi]

Well

"Sure different vendors have been signaling a half-arsed approach to Linux support for a while now, but it's only been in the last year or so where the effect has started to snowball."

Really? One source people like to reference to measure Linux desktop market share are the browser stats tracked by w3schools here: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp


I say because Google Zeitgeist reported much a lower number for Linux when they did OS statistics that those numbers are at least a little high.

That is not my point though, this time last year Linux was listed at 3.4% - 3.5%.

The most recent statistics published for April show it at 3.3%, a .3% drop since December.

I have been using Linux as long as I have been using Windows (over 7 years) and people have been talking about this "snowball" for ages.

We are at most 1% higher than we were in July of 2003.

I'll admit, Linux has come a long way (I even helped some), but it has really not made too much difference in market share.

[btalex1990]

Well even open source supporters are attacking U

remember the Open Source Ads Against Microsoft's patent pact on mino9nova and torrent sites.

Now it's being shared on archive.org so now these ads will attack you next for attacking open source.

Oh and if you want to sue him his names Linux_Supporter, hahahahahahaha.

He is using a fake name, and is actually lives in Salt lake city.

I am just his friend but I hope u go down Microsoft after what you pulled going after GPL like that and making deals with Novell

[polax81]

Dude :)

Yup!!! My friend happens to be an IT manager with a company his boss calls a "Microsoft shop" - and his attitude to alternatives to Windows are just the same as yours. However he is not so much a Kiss-a** like you are ;-).

Dude - wake up and read the news. Even MS doesn't pretend its the only choice around.

[polax81]

This is a response to dbrock35

This is a response to dbrock35 - to be read along with the famous MS stuff that dbrock has to say ;-)

[jimcbr]

it was obvious

It's true that no-one in their right mind would develop "general purpose" software for Windows, simply because as someone already pointed out, if your product becomes sucessful, Microsoft will simply make a superior copy and wipe you out.

However, the "custom made" software makers will continue to write for Windows, because Microsoft guarantees to them a continuous revenue stream, as it constantly (on purpose) keeps changing the API's thereby forcing the clients to keep coming back to the developers and asking them to update their custom made applications to keep them compatible with the new versions of the OS.

[Dachi]

Re: API's

"because Microsoft guarantees to them a continuous revenue stream, as it constantly (on purpose) keeps changing the API's thereby forcing the clients to keep coming back to the developers and asking them to update their custom made applications to keep them compatible with the new versions of the OS."

This is a case where the grass is certainly not greener on the other side. Backward and forward compatibility is actually one of the stronger points of Windows.

Do me a favor and find a copy of Red Hat 6.2 and install some modern Linux applications on it. I am pretty sure I would rather just gouge out my own eye instead.

Now find a copy of Windows 2000 and install some XP/Vista stuff on it.

Same time frame, vastly different results.

There are some applications I use that have been at the same version for ever, and some applications I use a specific version of because I don't like the updated versions. I have installed the same versions of the software on every single MS OS from 95/NT4 to XP/Vista/2k3 server with 0 problems.

I said earlier that I have been using Linux for as long as I have been using Windows, and many, many times I have had point releases break applications I use. I am not just talking about not having packages build for my specific version and distro, I mean it won't use the newer library version and backdating to the older library breaks some other applications.

Quite honestly, there are so many distros, versions, and configurations to test a software product against I am not even sure how you would go about it without just going GPL and leaving most of the work to the community.

Sure GPL works for some things (Red Hat), but if Photoshop were GPL how long do you think they would get away with charging $300 for it before someone renamed it and recompiled it and offered it for $5 or free?

[wildchild_plasma_gyro]

The market s almost ready for p and e's

p&e's
a p and e is a type of wiki pool and earn.
With the growth of linux developers this means there is quite a substaintial team to develop p and e based software.
This is where say a democratic group of interested parties in say software pool in money to pay people for tasks on an open platform and earn say money from advertisers of the development gets popular and the advertisers if interested can pay in or have savings on development or whatever.
This isn't communism as the regulation is not of total eqilibrium.
This isn't capitailism as the product is not of a triangle up of servents.
Nope this is social capitalism where you have the best chance of fair put in get out capabilities.
How the hell you would link this to taxs and services.
Anyway as i said the market is almost ready for it mean its almost bubling out of the cog works.
Social capitalist dynamics will be developed over a long time and will take time to muture and be accepted amoung the big powerhouse of current god and tao systems.
It will require more involvement with holistics than we currenty know hw to work with.
We are though almost ready to begin.

[fluffytheecat]

History Lesson #1

It seems that most of you commenting were not around when the last large transitions took place.

There is no parallel between ibm and ms.

When someone has something as good as or close to as good as what ms provides to the masses, then the world will move to it (WordStar, WordPerfect, Word--- VisiCalc, Lotus 123, Excel --- etc.). As to Apple, what a joke. Apple exists solely because ms has propped it up time after time-even Jobs knows it.

If you have not studied your history carefully or have not lived thru it all, you might want to watch and listen more than you spout off. Lots to learn here kids. :D Of course, you being young and all, you still find it fun to hear yourself put words together into sentences. LOL

.

[technewsjunkie]

It doesn't have to "as good", just CHEAP, Windows v3.1

MS "propped up" Apple once, and it did it because it HAD TO for
antitrust concerns. That was the old, failing Apple - under bad
management, pre-S. Jobs. It's a different company now with
good management. Apple's creating windows app.s, have yo
heard? iTunes for Windows, Safari for Windows, Intel processors
that run Windows side by side on Macs. TWO for the price of
ONE good one.

What is your point anyway? That MS isn't threatened by Linux
and web apps like Google's?

[DarkPhoenixFF4]

Head Out Of The Clouds

You don't believe that people switched from WordPerfect to Word because Word was "better", do you? Hell no.

Word won because Microsoft came up with 400 excuses why they couldn't let WordPerfect into the Windows 95 beta group (a group, BTW, which Microsoft hand-picked, so they could make sure that the beta group's members weren't in markets Microsoft was intending to invade), and then released Office 95 in tandem with Windows 95, along with an ad campaign talking about how it was better because it was "a native Windows 95 program". WordPerfect had to wait until after Office 95 was released to start porting the WordPerfect Suite to Windows 95, and by the time they did most of the market had switched to Office 95. Microsoft does it all the time; it's part of their market invasion strategy. How do you think Internet Explorer managed to muscle out Netscape Navigator? It sure wasn't because of quality; the first versions of IE were totally crap...

[intrepi]

You are as you appear, bloated with an ego

IBM DOS and MS DOS were both disk operating systems and the only reason MS DOS won out was IBM's lack of foresight and rigid price stand on it's version of DOS. Age has no bearing on intelligence and your arrogant, egotistical mannerism does nothing to impress anyone. Believe what you like but keep your personal commentary where it belongs and stop talking trash as that's where it belongs.

[Albertv]

There could be an other spin to this story.

The report made a point of noting "in America" etc.

Are they taking into account the massive outsourcing of application software projects which has been in full swing in the last 3 years?

[robbtuck]

Another possibility....

The drop in Windows apps could show a stronger shift toward web-based apps and mobile devices...