Comments on: Beijing's subway: A lesson for San Francisco

We know how to hold good meetings in the U.S., but Asia has us beat on getting to work.

[Lee in San Diego]

I agree

Even in the less developed Asian, and South Asian countries that I
have visited I had found public transportation to be quite
functional.

[ecotopian--2008]

Great trains in Japan

In California, you feel crippled without a car. In Japan, I felt
liberated without a car. You could jump on a convenient & on-time
train and be anywhere in the country in short order, while relaxing.
Almost nowhere in the country could you find a place that was
more than a 20 minute walk from a train station, and the system
was reliable and very easy to learn.

[kraterz]

HK and Singapore are top notch.

When I came to live and work in Asia, I initially felt crippled without a car for a couple of days, but it takes just that much time to get used to the public transport systems in these countries. It has been years now and I dont plan to get a car any time soon, the experience is very liberating.

The trains and buses in Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan and to some extent in Malaysia and some of the other "less developed" countries can put any American city to shame. If you are really averse to trains, cabs are frequent and reasonably priced, the fares are nowhere as exorbitant as in the west. You'll be surprised at the decent cabs available in a "backward" country like Indonesia.

England, specially London and thereabouts, is extremely well connected by trains and buses (hey, I can hop on to the Eurostar and get into Europe from Waterloo station), as is New York, and a handful of other cities, but most other cities and towns in the "first world countries" are designed to promote wasteful use of cars and burn more fuel, there's not even an attempt to entice people to use public transport.

[Christopher Hall]

I'll second Singapore

Singapore is a treat to behold, no matter how you look at it. The superb public transportation system only enhances the already world-class presentation the city exudes.

[Polycarpus]

"Bullet Train" from Narita

Sorry to spoil the fun, but there's no bullet train from the airport to Tokyo. The bullet train refers to the Shinkansen, an nationwide intercity system. The trains from Narita (Tokyo's main) airport don't go at those speeds.

[senhwei]

Couldn't agree more !

The US West Coast's mass transit infrastructure is woefully inadequate. Being the world's fifth largest economy, California really needs to start investing on efficient and environmentally friendly mass transit and reduce the dependency on cars.

Chris
Sydney, Australia

[MomLes]

Not just in Asia

It's encouraging to hear Asian public transport is so good. We've experienced the same in Europe - Portugal, France, Spain, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium... the list goes on. Even Turkey has reliable public transport everywhere. North America has a lot to learn.

[wangbang]

true...

I've been in Beijing, Guangzhou, Hong Kong, London--they all have a much better subway than the crap service we get in Washington, DC. I don't understand--why can't we have a subway that is just as good?!

[davejenk1ns]

errors left and right

Your commentary on Transportation in Asia is full of errors:
1. The bullet train does not run between Narita and Tokyo, that train is the Narita Express. The Bullet Train runs between Tokyo and Osaka.
2. Beijing trains do not run as promplty as you describe-- many parts of the city experience delays (outside the white-bread section).
3. 'no wonder America is falling behind'? What, did you just finish watching "Rising Sun" with Wesley Snipes or something? The 80s called, they want their xenophobic tripe back.

I cannot believe what CNET will allow to pass for 'news' lately.

[panathlon]

Have you lived of just visited these Asian cities?

Your comments read like those of a traveller who has visited the Beijing, Tokyo, and South Korea. Actually, South Korea is a country, not a city. I guess it seemed o.k. to just lump this small-ish country together with other "big" Asian cities. I don't know which airport you are talking about taking only minutes to get from the airport to the city (assuming you are talking about Seoul) by train, but there is currently NO EXPRESS train from Incheon International (servicing most flights originating outside of Asia) to the city.

Also, a significant difference in some of the Asian cities is their willingness to crowd public transportation to ridiculous levels. In particular, Tokyo and Seoul have metro employees whose job is to literally push additional passengers onto already over-crowded trains. And there is no limit to the number of people that can be crowded unto a bus. In Seoul, I have ridden at the bottom of the steps, inches from the front window, on more than one occasion.

Your facts are poor and misrepresent the reality of the situation. It's not a story, but rather a mis-informed, less-than-amateur, blog entry. And to believe I followed this link was giving top-billing on my cnet Pageflakes box.

[Newspeak finder]

Wrong

1/He didn't state that Soth Korea is a city. You erected the
strawman.
2/He didn't claim there was s subway from Incheon airport.
3/The Soeul subway is not crowded all the time.
4/I have never seen such a disgusting subway/light rail system as
New Yorks.

[eddierabbit]

not a fair comment

where are you Michael? I'm from Toronto and work in Beijing for 5 year. I seldom ride subway here but I do know what it's like. You are glorifying Beijing subway anyhow. In North America, Toronto's TTC is good, the whole city well covered, clean, safe and on time....old though. In Asia, you overlooked Hong Kong subway which connects ot the airport. Which is clean, comfortable and efficient. Comparing the Beijing subway Hong Kong is at least Business class and Beijing is the cheapest charter flight.

[eddierabbit]

The lesson should be from Toronto

I have to say a little bit more on Toronto's TTC.
If you haven't been living in Toronto, let me tell you more: The public transportation is one system called TTC. One ticket goes from point A to point B within the city with logical transfers between train, light transit, buses and streetcars. Almost all buses and streetcars connect to a subway station; that means you don't have to walk on street level to connect your trip. Schedules are accurate, and you can call a phone number to check arrival time of a bus stop(the number is stop-specific. Isn't that a much better lesson for San Francisco? And this is not a new system....it's been around for decades.

[balooh]

Tokyo airport, one of the worst connected

the article makes it sound as if there was a bullet train service
from one of Tokyo's airports. This is not so.

Tokyo's domestic airport (Haneda) is within the city and is
connected by ordinary commuter trains.

Tokyo's international airport (Narita) is in the neighbouring
prefecture and is connected by two train services neither of
which are bullet train services. On each service there are 2-3
trains per hour, not every 10 minutes. The trains operate at
speeds around 80-100 kph and it takes about 60-90 minutes to
reach the airport. Adding the travel time from one's starting
point within Tokyo to the few stations from which the airport
services leave, most people will need 2 hours at least to reach
the airport, those living in the West of Tokyo need 3 hours.

Tokyo International Airport is definitely not an airport that is
easy or pleasant to reach. Most international hubs in Europe
have express train connections through which airports are
reachable within 15-25 minutes from the city centre. Compared
to that, getting to and from Narita Airport is a hassle.

[Leo Watson]

Hong Kong's MTR

HK has the best & cheapest transit system in the world - it rocks!

[michclar]

So correct

I was born and raised in San Francisco. I moved to San Jose 5 years ago. Just about every major metro area I've visited (NYC, Boston, Washington DC, London etc.) all have far superior metro systems compared to San Francisco/San Jose (MUNI, BART & VTA). Where is our bullet train from San Francisco to Los Angeles! I'm tired of taking the SouthWest airlines cattle call between the 2 cities! Really, let's get with the 21st century and the rest of the world and upgrade our public transit.

[mikeinkansas]

Somewhat distorted view

I fly to Narita 1-2 times/month and SFO 2-3 times/month; The BART line from SFO to downtown is cheaper, quicker, and less crowded than the . The only downside to BART is, if your destination isn't near a BART station, getting around in the City once you're there; The cable cars are an option, but usually too crowded with tourists.

[bryany]

NYC Subway

I've never been to the west coast, but I was wondering how Beijing's subway system compares to NYC's. I'm sure that it's certainty less confusing.

[Kalama]

Cars are In ! No SUV's or Pickups, Yet

Having had the opportunity to have visited Beijing & Shanghai in
March, an observation ... { and you could tack this onto
discussions of fuel pricing, too } ... CARS ARE IN ! Everywhere
we traveled, there were trucks & buses of various ages, not just
new. Same with peddle / small engine power. But, there were
virtually No Old Cars ! My best guess is that virtually none of the
cars are over 4 years old. And with all the other construction
boom going on, Freeways in the American and German sense
are springing up by the Km. << the highway safety posters at
the rest stops do not attempt in the Western sensibilities of how
to present the dangers of tailgating. >>

What was real interesting though, whoever has the Buick
Franchise must be pulling in $cads of Waun ! Unlike the US
where the brand / make / model is considered stodgy, there
seems to be a fairly equal numbers to the Japanese brands, and
far out numbering the American brands.

As China's economy gets more open and grows, for better / for
worse, the middle class will want to drive their own vehicle. Call
it status; call it luxury; call it "self determination" ... more cars
will be rolling on the highways, byways and streets throughout
China.

Just remember, centralized governments connected to lower
standards of living, tend to run the trains on time. It is said that
Mussolini made the trains run on time ! No BS scheduling tricks
such as AMTRAK uses on both the Eastern Seaboard and the
West Coast.

Examine if you will, one of the reasons Public Transport issues
get passed by voters { West Coast situation, at least } ... put the
trains out / subways / light rail / buses ... and my neighbor will
use them, and get His car off the road AND out of MY WAY !

But, what the heck. The Shanghai Maglev Train to the Pudong
International Airport is fun ! 22 miles is 7:13 minutes is a hoot !
Even if the Chinese admit that is will never be self supporting by
the ticket machine. We'll see how they do with the planned
Hangzhou Maglev ?

[viscus]

A little cruel...

I think you're a bit too hard on San Francisco. Sure, Muni has problems that people love to whine about to no end. But compared to other US cities, it's got good coverage and a large portion of the population uses it regularly. The city's geography lends itself to that, but still, public transit is a practical option, unlike LA or Phoenix.

[dmj23]

Totally Agree Bay Area Public Transit is Awful

I'm not sure you need to look even as far as Beijing, but it certainly points to the fact that public transit in the Bay Area for an area as populous as it is just doesn't cut it.

The only thing public transit in the Bay Area is good for is getting to Market St. Try getting from Silicon Valley to San Francisco and having to transfer 3 times and you'll see.

I'd readily trade the ultra-polished, far too air conditioned and clean San Francisco system for a dirty, yet fast and cheap option.

[bob donut]

Dirty is not acceptable

Don't trade or think about trading the cleanliness of public transit or any public area for that matter. Besides the obvious aesthectic appeal, a dirty or poorly lighted area is a sign to miscreants that it's not being patrolled or maintained, and this lends to crime.