Version: 2008

Comments on: Unhappy Digg users bury site in protest

Apparently very upset at the news aggregate site for deleting articles containing a key that could be used to crack the digital rights management on HD DVDs, Digg users inundate the site with thousands of recommendations to pages that contain the code.

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Nothing like caving in to criminals
by jtfan2004 May 2, 2007 3:23 AM PDT
Way to go! Forget the fact that the reason for copyrights and patents is to protect the interests of the originators of the content. Cave in to criminals who 'protest' that their right to commit copyright infringment is being, um, infringed. Fantastic.
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I compleatly agree
by ibeetle May 2, 2007 3:48 AM PDT
I think this shows that the average Digg'er is a spoiled, self-
centered, child. This action taken by these children are going to
drive thousands of mature, level headed Digg users away.
Resulting in a complete destruction and demise of Digg.

There have already been hundreds of Pro- Code post talking
about how Digg has sold out and caved in to big business...
result many have left the site feeling betrayed. And there have
already been hundreds of post stating that they are closing their
Digg account because they feel Digg has been over run by
children behaving badly... result many more have left the site.

With reports of submissions "Rigged" to go the the Digg front
page. Moderators deleting post that "Digg" disagrees with, and
now this I wonder if Digg will survive. And if it does it what way
will it be changed.
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not so easy
by rwahrens May 2, 2007 3:54 AM PDT
This isn't such an easy subject.

At the surface, it may seem that your analysis is an easy one. However, if one examines the actions of the MPAA, one sees that their actions, through using an overly restrictive DRM scheme that actually artificially restricts the fair use rights of its customers, is the real reason for this protest by Digg users.

Call it the market in action, if you will. These are people that are angry that they are forced by the MPAA to submit to buying DRM-laced products that deny them the fair use rights that the law allows. This is their way of letting the MPAA know that they are angry and want that DRM removed.

I think, though, that Digg, as a site, may be protected by the law as an independent provider of a forum where users can submit content. Obviously, they are not in full control of their own site, so they may be able to fend off any attack by the MPAA. Time will tell.
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+ 1
by ejevo May 2, 2007 5:26 AM PDT
The thugs win again...
Slander (Prove they are criminals)
by umbrae May 2, 2007 6:20 AM PDT
It is actually legal under many circumstances to breach DRM and copy content. You have no proof that any of the Digg.com users plan to do anything illegal, and there is nothing illegal about linking to information about DRM.

Breaching DRM was not illegal before the DMCA and more and more provisions are added to it each day to re-enable our rights to fair use. I supposed you also support gangs that use extortion for "protection services". Because that is exactly what media companies do: they step beyond their authority to scare people into doing this when they have no legal leg to stand on.

I now have more respect for Digg.com, who is willing to stand up for their rights: even if their users had to protect for it to happen.
Only in the USA
by michaelbabcock May 2, 2007 6:58 AM PDT
Only in the USA is the very large number in question even possibly illegal to post. Circumvention measures are not illegal in most countries in the world. There is nothing at all criminal about wanting to watch HD-DVD movies you own on PCs, Laptops or other hardware that don't have official players available, and keys like this one allow for that. You've drank too much of the kool-aid obviously.
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Give me a fscking break!!!
by T38 May 2, 2007 8:13 AM PDT
Wrong, wrong, wrong.

You are assuming that anyone who wants to use this key is a criminal and wants to steal content, but that is not the case. The problem is two-fold. First, the decryption keys are only available for Mac and Windows. Anyone using an open source operating system like Free/Net/Open-BSD or Linux cannot play their LEGALLY PURCHASED DVD-HD movies without this key being available. Second, their is a "Fair Use" provision in U.S. copyright law that states that it is perfectly legal to make archival copies of any legally acquired content you own, so long as you do not make the "archives" available to others.

The MPAA is trying to prevent either of these legal, reasonable uses of DVD-HD disks.

Like you, I have no sympathy for P2P file sharers who want to acquire music, movies, etc. in violation of copyright law. Unfortunately, what you and the MPAA seem to have forgotten is that not everyone who wants to use these encryption keys wants to use them to infringe upon copyright.
nothing like you being 100% wrong.
by catfish182 May 2, 2007 9:09 AM PDT
I was there for the event and read many of the topics. It wasnt about the ability to use the code which few would it was about the admins taking away postings when they say its a social network where the user has the power. The issue was over how Digg was not letting the posts go though. So please next time look into it before thinking its about criminals when its not. Its about being told that you have the freedom to talk about what you want then being censored.
It's my understanding...
by rcsteiner May 2, 2007 9:17 AM PDT
...that the number itself had already been published by its owner in a legal document available to the public. If this is true, digg stories referencing this number may no longer be violating copyright.

Also, arguments have been made in the past ad Nauseum that the copying of a movie for archival purposes or for media transformation falls under "fair use" in the US, regardless of the wording of the rather draconian DMCA, so the use that the code in question might be put to is not necessarily "illegal", at least when viewer in the spirit of past laws (the AHRA, etc.).
Criminals????
by obsolete_power May 2, 2007 9:26 AM PDT
Criminals are people that murder or rape and not people that use
their intelligence to do something for the community. HD DVD
needed to be cracked to show that it is possible and maybe to try
and destroy them and I want that so if you want to call me a
criminal go ahead. I am not interested in stealing their ideas or w/
e. I just want to see HD DVD go down and this is the way to do
that. This is the only way we can have power over big corporations.
I am sick and tired of seeing other people get things they don't
deserve! **** HD DVD!
You own the HDDVD
by ablack6596 May 2, 2007 11:01 AM PDT
You have to have the HDDVD of the movie for this to be useful. Which usually means that the person actually owns the HDDVD and wants to watch in on Linux or play it on their iPod. Things that users should be allowed to do if they buy a movie.

The piracy groups have already been releasing HD movies a long time, posting the code on Digg does nothing to help them, they would have already had it anyways.
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Why is that?
by sirkism May 2, 2007 4:13 AM PDT
I understand if someone published the number on the digg server. But I thought it was safe to link to sites from digg?
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Democracy at work
by michaelbabcock May 2, 2007 7:03 AM PDT
Americans claim to have a democracy. A government that works by the people, for the people. Well the people want the right to view their DVDs, HD-DVDs, Blu-Ray Discs, listen to their music on CDs and MP3 players, content they legally paid for, without hassle and restriction. They want the right to use DVD-rippers to store their movies and watch them easily (granted by a supreme court recently) and don't want big companies telling them what they can and can't do with the content and entertainment they paid for. Well, here's democracy -- if they want it, they should fight for it, and they should get it. You're either a democracy, or you're not. Let's see who wins this time -- special interests, or the people.
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I concur
by rwahrens May 2, 2007 7:12 AM PDT
completely!
wrong
by dandrcomputer May 2, 2007 8:55 AM PDT
This country happens to be a republic, not a democracy.
In a democracy the people can vote themselves any right they want. You want to banish all lefthanders; in your democracy you can vote yourself that right by a simple majority.
In a republic the people are constrained by laws laid down in a framework (which we call The Constitution) and must honor basic rights, even those of the minorities. One of these long-held rights is the right to profit from one's own work and to protect that work from those who would seek to copy it and profit from it themselves.
If you need to have a copy of your movie to "protect it from your kids", here's an outlandish thought, buy it!
I do not buy the argument that you want to copy a movie for your own "archive". Those types of arguments are at the very least disingenuous, and are more probably a bold-faced lie.
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the big problem
by RayGentry May 2, 2007 7:41 AM PDT
The big problem with this whole scenario is that posting information is not illegal. It's legal to post instructions about how to make a bomb. Some people could use it (I suppose for something legal) for blowing up an old building on their farm lot or something that technically wouldn't be illegal. But the big worry is that if that information is posted, someone will use it for something illegal. It is still legal to post that information though, as long as you don't tell people to do illegal things with it. For the sake of the country, it's a lot more worrisome for me to know that any nut job can find out (easily) how to make a bomb. But it's still legal for them to post it. This may have some financial implications when people use it illegally, but it should be available so that people who want to watch BluRay or HDDVD on Linux or something can.
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Well...
by rcsteiner May 2, 2007 9:19 AM PDT
The source code to Windows is "information" in many senses, and yet the posting of such code would likely result in a court action because it would violate existing copyright law.
And your point is?
by T38 May 2, 2007 8:40 AM PDT
Yes, the producer of the content has the right to set terms and limits upon use...within reason.

However, the consumer ALSO has the right to protest what they perceive to be unfair or unrealistic limitations in an effort to convince the producer that said limits and restrictions are unreasonable.

That is what the Digg users did--they protested the MPAA's Mafia-like tactics and unrealistic terms, and by doing so focused a lot of attention on the problem of DRM.
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Wow
by xpose May 2, 2007 8:44 AM PDT
I cannot believe that worked. Im glad I was a part of it.
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Everybody's Wrong...
by System Tyrant May 2, 2007 9:01 AM PDT
and that's the problem. The MPAA and RIAA want to control how the content is used and distributed and the consumer want to be able to use it in any manor they choose (which includes illegal sharing).

As a consumer I don't like DRM or anything that stops my right to use the movie or music that I've purchased. However, as a consumer I must respect the rights of the content owner and use it as agreed upon which means I don't share it illegally.

Now as far as the whole Entitlement Generation crap goes. It started with the baby boomers. My father and mother are baby boomers and they had no problem copying audio tapes or VHS movies back in the day or sharing music or movies with people. The only difference between now and then is it's a whole lot easier and cheaper to do today than it was back then. We are not products of our own generation, but products of the previous generation.
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It's legal to share media in Europe and Canada
by heffeque May 2, 2007 9:54 AM PDT
It's legal to share media in Europe and Canada, and probably in a lot of other countries too. The MPAA and the RIAA can't enforce in other countries laws that don't exist in them.
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09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
by Hardrada May 2, 2007 9:09 AM PDT
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
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Sweet!
by T38 May 2, 2007 9:29 AM PDT
Subject says it all :)
You heard wrong
by talonh May 2, 2007 9:50 AM PDT
The 5 major recording studios were found to have been guilty of price fixing and collusion.
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Not everyone is wrong
by T38 May 2, 2007 9:51 AM PDT
You are still assuming that everyone who wants the DRM crap removed is wanting to illegally share the content. This isn't necessarily the case.

In order to play a legally-purchased-brand-new-in-the-box DVD on my Linux desktop at home, I have to download software to decrypt the DVD, download the decryption key (what the Digg users were posting), and finally download a utility to set the region for the DVD drive (google "DVD region code" if you don't know what I'm talking about). Tell me which part of this is immoral or even a violation of the MPAA's licensing?

I have NEVER used a peer to peer network to acquire or post media in violation of the author's copyrights -- I respect their intellectual property, and I don't believe it is morally acceptable to deprive someone of their livelihood simply because I am cheap. I just want to be able to play a freaking DVD on the OS that I have chosen to run on my desktop. Is that REALLY so unreasonable? Does that make me a criminal?
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Still wrong...
by System Tyrant May 2, 2007 12:07 PM PDT
if you live in America. You are still breaking the law regardless whether it's fair or not or covered under fair use.

Since I've never lived anywhere, but the USA I can't say that about anywhere else.
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Hey...what do you know?
by phantomsoul May 2, 2007 10:12 AM PDT
Someone actually listens to the users. I guess when your users threaten the well-being of your site, that becomes much more of a risk than some copyright lawsuit.

Talk about a break-through -- fellow Internet users, unite!
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Fan the Flames
by rich966 May 2, 2007 10:14 AM PDT
Since the MPAA is guilty of criminal action each and very day by posting fake torrents on P2P netwrk sites and using those to track down file-sharers and by price fixing and several other civil rights violations; I choose to pay the person who will be able to provide me with the content that I want on the terms that I want.

The rise of Netflix and DVD copying software has allowed me to bypass directly paying the MPAA and movie studios for the content which they choose to market at an unreasonable cost.

This is just like watching free broadcast TV and having the show itself be paid for by the commercials and not me.

Netflix + DVD Copy Software = Free Market.
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Can the Digg mob stop the War in Iraq?
by ccarey May 2, 2007 12:39 PM PDT
With the Digg mob standing up to the DCMA it made me think...If hundreds of thousands of people can see when something is wrong and stand up for our rights in regards to freedoms of speech when it comes to HD-DVD backup & archive why couldn?t that same power of the people be harnessed to send a clear message to congress on the War in Iraq?

http://digg.com/world_news/Can_the_Digg_mob_stop_the_War_in_Iraq
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Stop the War in Iraq?
by DerbyDaddy May 2, 2007 1:58 PM PDT
Reading ccarey's post confirm's my suspicions that idiot's still roam unfettered and free in this nation. The "hundreds of thousands" you "believe" need to be motivated already have those freedom of speech rights. That is the real "inconvenient truth" that exposes the sad illusions of CBS television, mainstream media, and a few thousand clueless supporters like yourself.
No matter what illegal is illegal
by jesmac418 May 2, 2007 5:06 PM PDT
I do not support DRM and I do not like the implications of it. But trying to get around it is illegal. Just because we do not like a law does not mean it's ok to break it. You need to fight to have DRM removed and not try to work around it.
You that do this,are only adding "fuel to the fire" so too speak.You are the reason DRM was created!
Copy protection is nothing new. I really think this has all started simply because digital media can be duplicated so exactly that it is very hard to tell it from the master. I can not offer a solution to a very complex problem. But I do know that posting hacks for getting around copy protection will only create more protectionist feelings in the media.
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Fair Use
by lilredsammy May 2, 2007 6:45 PM PDT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Read and Understand before you speak. I have the right, provided by law to do this.
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Civil Disobedience?
by T38 May 3, 2007 8:10 AM PDT
Remember reading about MLK or Mahatma Gandhi in your high school history courses? They used civil disobedience to challenge laws and to create a more equitable world. This is essentially the same thing: DMCA restricts fair use of a product that consumers are paying their hard-earned money to purchase, and Digg was the location of the first large-scale protest of this very bad law. Especially in light of the Sony rootkit fiasco, DRM+DMCA=oppression of the consumer.
still disagree with you
by RayGentry May 2, 2007 5:10 PM PDT
But like tons of people have said on here already. According to copyright laws, personal archival is allowed. If i have to have this key to do that, then fine. Speeding is illegal, but having a car that can speed is not. It's the same thing. I'm not doing anything illegal with the information or just by decrypting it. People could, but the point is that there are legitimate uses for it, so they should just deal with it.
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You are wrong!
by lilredsammy May 2, 2007 6:12 PM PDT
A contract requires my signature. Purchasing an item does NOT. I don't purchase contracts. Yes I did SIGN a contract with a bank to purchase my house and car. What if I had enough money to pay cash for them? They are still mine. I can burn my house with the car in the garage. I can do what I want with them. A dvd or cd or whatever is no different. It is my property.
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You don't live in America do you.
by System Tyrant May 3, 2007 8:10 AM PDT
By buying a DVD you agree to use it as it was intended by the content owner and applicable laws.

On a side note you don't own the content on a DVD. You only own the DVD. When buying a DVD you only buy the right to view the content in the manor which the content owner agrees to.

As the MPAA stands today if you buy a DVD for private home viewing then you can't copy it to a computer or to an iPod etc. You only have the right to use it in a DVD player for private viewing in your home.

Now with that said. If you copy every DVD you own to your media server for private home viewing then I seriously doubt the MPAA is going to come knocking at your door. Hell, I doubt that they would come knocking if you copied every DVD you rented to your media server. However, you start distributing those movies then I would expect that knock.
Slavery; Prohibition; Boston Tea Party
by lilredsammy May 2, 2007 6:23 PM PDT
Why was Slavery overturned? Why was Prohibition overturned? Why was there a Boston Tea Party? It was not popular! It was wrong! It could not be controlled! Why are all laws changed? If nobody questions a law then we are not citizens, we are servants/subjects.
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Why?
by System Tyrant May 3, 2007 8:17 AM PDT
"Why was Slavery overturned?"

Because it was inhuman treatment of people. Slavery still exist today though in some parts of the world.

"Why was Prohibition overturned?"

Because people continued to drink and because of the increasing amount of deadly alcohol. Remember, though, that many people still went to jail for breaking the law.

"Why was there a Boston Tea Party?"

Unfair taxation without proper representation.


"It was not popular! It was wrong! It could not be controlled! Why are all laws changed? If nobody questions a law then we are not citizens, we are servants/subjects."

I agree 100% that people should question every law passed. More over they need to be very vocal about laws that are either to heavily one sided or just completely unfair. However breaking the law is still breaking the law.
FairUse
by lilredsammy May 2, 2007 6:38 PM PDT
FairUse allows me to back up MY hd-dvd.
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Court.
by System Tyrant May 3, 2007 8:18 AM PDT
Try to use that excuse in court and see how far it gets you.
Flash point ... now's the time
by Michael Christenson II May 2, 2007 7:02 PM PDT
Why? Because this is the flash point for civil disobedience and freedom right here, right now!

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0

... To your hearts content.

If we can't stand now with something so simple, when can we stand? I suggest you go to every possible place you can comment or blog and post the code. Do it as soon as possible, as often as possible!
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Deception, Rootkit, Mayhem
by Tokimemofan May 8, 2007 12:10 AM PDT
The way I understand DMCA and fair use You can back up dvds or any other media but the DMCA creates a legal Catch 22. To summarise it up, you have to break the law, specificaly Anti-Circumvention clause of the DMCA. This is a classic example of two laws conflicting with each other.
The current Deception, Rootkit, Mayhem [DRM] crap combined with outdated busness practices
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Sorry about the double post, just read this one
by Tokimemofan May 8, 2007 12:31 AM PDT
The way I understand DMCA and fair use You can back up dvds or any other media but the DMCA creates a legal Catch 22. To summarise it up, you have to break the law, specificaly Anti-Circumvention clause of the DMCA. This is a classic example of two laws conflicting with each other.
The current Deception, Rootkit, Mayhem [DRM] crap combined with outdated busness practices are at fault. Also, you cannot call every illegal copy a lost sale. If someone in Japan downloads a movie that will never be released there then the copyright holder never had the sale to begin with. Piracy can be beneficial under some circumstances too, for those that want solid proof look up "anime."
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