Comments on: A diesel Honda that gets 62.8 miles a gallon?

Honda expects to bring a clean-diesel Accord to the U.S. by 2010.

[Vonmaxx]

Honda Car

I want to buy one. Tired of paying 3.00 per gallon. The car I have
now gets 28 MPG on the interstate. At 2 1/2 times the MPG it
would not seem that bad.

[Solaris_User]

No need for eco laws.

Honda did this without any government force at all. They made a car that got great gas mileage on bio diesel fuel due solely to market demand.

Environmental Education not force. It stiffs the oil cobal too.

[ScottMo]

Not entirely correct

Honda developed this car to meet government regulations in a market that's important to them. To say that California's emission standards had nothing to do with manufacturers pushing technology to meet that standard is wrong. California set the bar high and the market rose to meet it because the was profit there. If this was Rhode Island setting the standard, no profit = no movement. Government does work (well, some of the time, anyway).

[-fjtorres-]

For the record...

That is an Acura TSX body in the photo, not a NorthAM Accord. The TSX is a left-hand drive version of the Japan-spec Accord. Its a bit smaller and more manueverable than the US-made Accords. If that Diesel can deliver power and handling comparable to what the TSX currently delivers *and* 60 MPG, Honda is going to have trouble meeting demand.

[floppydik]

Partially correct

YEs, it's a TSX body that is the EUROPEAN ACCORD. The car was first the Accord in Europe and N.A. Honda decided to rebadge and upgrade it for the TSX.

Regardless, I am excited that Honda is working on this clean, torque laden (something honda engines lack) diesel engine for the US. I believe diesel engines will make hybrids obsolete.

[slammed42]

That's the Euro Accord body.
The body has nothing to do with power

[aka_tripleB]

Didn't most the the VW diesel vehicals get about 60 mpg last year?

I'm fairly certain that the website had claims that they reach well into 50 mpg at least. Now, Honda is claiming 62.8?

*Woopie-doo! You one up'ed people!*

Why is Honda get so much credit for minor improvements?

[gregsfc]

60 MPG VW? Please!

I'm as excited as anyone about modern, clean diesel autos, but these numbers are getting exaggerated. This sort of thing happened when hybrids first starting coming to market. Still yet, clean diesel autos, if brought to the U.S. in mass, could save us over one-million barrels of oil per day, and even more, if consumers really catch on to this biodiesel craze as I have.

I drive a 2006 Jetta TDI. I avg. 43 mpg, driving conservatively, and using B20 (20% biodiesel blended with 80% ULSD fuel). When one combines diesels with the use of biodiesel (which all diesels can use w/o modification), the potential for saving petroleum through the use of diesel automobiles, is tremendous.

The 2006 VW Jetta TDI gets an estimated, 36 city and 41 hwy for the 5-speed manual, while the automatic lists at 35/42. The average user, however, reports an average of 44 mpg with the 2006 Jetta TDI. Likewise, most other diesel models outperform the epa estimate in fuel economy.

The upcoming VW Jetta TDI/BlueTec is expected to get 45 mpg in a combined, city/hwy rating, which (if this is held up by the EPA) will be an increase of seven mpg over the 2006 model, while providing 40 more horsepower @ 140, and 59 more lbs of torque @ 236.

Consumers can expect to see this fifty-state complliant Jetta way before the Accord; the Jetta--around mid-Spring of 2008; the Accord--by 2010.

[gregsfc]

It is a whoopdy-do!

If one car gets 60 mpg and another car gets 50 mpg, that is a significant reduction in petroluem usage, greenhouse gas emissions, and a reduction on those individuals' wallets. As a matter of fact, that is a 20% increase in fuel economy; a 20% decrease in fuel costs per year; and an approximate, 20% decrease in CO2 output.

What if we changed that to two vehicles that got not so good fuel economy, and we compared a pickup that gets 10 mpg to a pickup that gets 20 mpg.

Would that be a whoopdy do? It's the same increase; ten mpg!

[JazzzMann]

60 mpg VWs ?

Don't know how anyone could get 60 mpg from a VW. My 2006 Jetta can get 50 mpg on the hwy if I don't drive too fast (65-70) and save the A/C. My goal is to one day take a trip where I can drive 50 - 55 mph on almost flat road. I might can get 55 mpg under special conditions. I get 40-42 around town.

[tao51nyc]

There is NOTHING NEW here

There was a 51mpg diesel VW Rabbit on the road in the US as far back as 1984. We tend to forget what happened the last time there was a gas crunch in this country. By the mid-80's there were over 40 vehicles available that got 35mpg or better. By 2004 that number had shrunk to 9. Why are we always reinventing the effing wheel?

[slammed42]

Ok, so I haven't read all the replies, but your comment made me cringe. What companies advertise on their site and what cars actually achieve is completely different. I believe VW ran an ad in the 50s or something with a gutted, stripped Bug with a jockey. The ad read: Yeah, we can get 52.3 mpg. But we don't.

[slammed42]

Ok, so I haven't read all the replies. What companies advertise on their site and what cars actually achieve is completely different. I believe VW ran an ad in the 50s or something with a gutted, stripped Bug with a jockey. The ad read: Yeah, we can get 52.3 mpg. But we don't.

[gregsfc]

Writer is confused!

quote: "Since then, petroleum manufacturers have devised cleaner diesels that only emit about 15 parts per million of diesel, down from hundreds of parts per million."

Whoa!!! This is so wrong I can't believe they printed it!

Petroleum manufacturers didn't do anything. The car manufacturers designed exhaust treatment systems and engines that can cut particulates of matter 90%, and nitrogen oxides 90% from levels found in the cleanest, 2004 diesel cars. As a prerequisite, however, the engine manufacturers needed the EPA to mandate 15 ppm diesel fuel which had been the standard throughout most of the world for almost ten years. This lower sulfur fuel allows automakers to apply these advanced systems. The 500 ppm, sulfur diesel would destroy these exhaust treatment systems and was keeping the auto industry from offering the U.S. diesel cars.

The petroleum industry fought this for years, even as they knew it was the right thing to do for the environment. Now, companies like Shell are airing commercials giving themselves credit for bringing cleaner fuels to America, when in fact, they held out until they were forced to market the clean fuel here.

15 ppm sulfur is not a measure of output as this article states. It is the level of sulfur in the fuel and does not have anything to do with the level of sulfur allowed out the tailpipe of diesel cars and trucks.

PM-.002 grams per mile. NOx - .07 grams per mile, fleet avg. Those are the requirements that the automanufacturers have to reach that will allow fifty-state emission compliance through 2010. These numbers are more commonly referred to as tier 2, bin 5, and will be the same in all fifty states by 2009.

[queenieamerica]

I would like to expound on the comment that corrects a misstatement. First diesels have been available in the US for years from VW, they are not sold in states that have CA emission standards. The new generation of Diesel engines require low sulphur Diesel fuel (federally required in the US since Oct 06). Mercedes Benz and VW have new diesel engines that meet 50 state emission standards but both require Bluetec or Adblue fluid to meet the standards (it's a urea based fluid that is injected in the exhaust). Mercedes requires up to 8.5 gallons of the fluid that require trips to the dealer at approx. 10K miles intervals. Honda uses a different system that creates urea in the exhaust to control emissions. No added fluid! More diesel engines are coming from other auto manufacturers over the next couple of years. Whether the US embraces them we have to wait and see. The reason the Diesel Honda looks like an Acura is because the Acura TSX is based on the European Accord which is available in Diesel form. Thank you.

[tcam000]

Bad math??

I find it hard to believe that, that Accord can get 62.8 MPG. Currently, that Accord sells in UK with a 2.2L i-CTDI (diesel engine) which can attain 52.3 MPG combined.

Now 52.3 MPG is based on Imperial gallons which is 1.2 US Gallons. Now to convert that number to US gallons, you should do 52.3/1.2 = 43.6. Now if you do the opposite and do 52.3 * 1.2, you get 62.76 which rounds to 62.8 MPG.

Coincidence that this new car gets exactly 62.8 MPG, a 44% increase in mileage, when announced in the US market? I think not!

[Nepenthes]

no math rather than bad math

Figures from the following website suggests that the imperial mpg value was simply not converted to US mpg values. It seems the highest value of 62.8 mpg (Extra Urban!) in the table was quoted.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/honda/honda-accord-review-part-1-16-04-05.asp

Economy [ Manufacturers Figures ]

Urban 39.8 mpg
Extra Urban 62.8 mpg
Combined 52.3 mpg

[mikeshafer]

Who cares about "power"?

Do most Americans really need the ability to go from 0-60 in 5 seconds? 10 seconds? My 2003 Jetta TDI is peppy enough with its 1.9L turbodiesel engine. I think acceleration loses out when gas prices are $3.50/gallon. Plus you can run it on biodiesel which is domestic and often times cheaper now that the oil companies are robbing us of even more money. All last summer in Seattle, biodiesel was 20-30 cents cheaper per gallon than diesel!

Bring on the diesel cars. Sign me up--I'll take one. And while you're at it, bring the MINI Cooper D (diesel) to the USA! 64.2mpg!

[pizzajoevt]

corolla verso diesel

The corolla verso may be effective at getting americans out of their suvs,High utility and seating for 6 plus very high trim levels(passkey entry,pushbutton start,headrest mounted dvd,180 hp diesel)with great gas mileage would be a great fit for us.Also the yaris diesel gets 60+/imp gal.it comes in verso trim too.

[pipefitter72]

the real theif

you should find out how much profit per gallon the oil company makes versus how much tax per gallon the government takes.Maybe then you will figure out who the real theif is.

[tekintl]

Ethanol and hybrids can kiss my exhaust

I tired of ethanol getting government subsidies when Diesel is clearly better. Diesel has more energy per gallon than both gasoline and ethanol. Plus, diesel can be made simply from waste veggie oil in your own backyard. I drive a TDI Jetta right now but dont see why I have to wait to get a TDI Honda when they've been driving them in Europe for years. 60 MPG Batteries not included!

[sagargemini]

This is awesome news for automotive & environment industry!

Hey, this is a great news for automotive industry and very positive for the highly polluted environment! Indeed a great relief!! Check out more such interesting stuff at: http://niche-technologies.blogspot.com. Thanks.

[Magnum 44]

Diesel cars.....

It had taken USA a long time to find out about diesel for cars. There was an abortive attenpt in the 1980's by GM to put a diesel (converted 350 block) into a Cadillac & Oldsmobile, but they mad a hash of it and put everybody off diesel for ever! I got one of these engines in '86 and put it into a Range Rover - fabulous. 44 miles per gallon on motorways, and bags of power. I live in Spain, and nobody (sensible) drives anything but diesel. There are many mid-sized sedans here that do 50 mpg, and with terrific power. Look hard at diesel, guys, it's good.

Magnum 44

[iluvmysh]

Accord?

Looks like a TSX to me?

[m00c0w25]

European Accord

The car pictured here is sold as the Accord in Europe and the Acura TSX in America. Honda needed to use a larger car for the Accord in America to compete with other mid-size sedans/coupes.

[bbellwfu]

TSX = JDM/European Accord

The Acura TSX in the USA is a modified version of the Japanese/European Honda Accord.

More background: http://www.autozine.org/html/Honda/Accord.html

[sjaaksken]

irony

How ironic, this article was placed on digg and two stories lower you can find this article

U.S. vehicles rank bottom in world fuel efficiency...

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN3024959820070730

[SiXiam]

Combine this with a hybrid...

I like it how it is already, but what if you combined a small efficent diesel with battery tech and plugin capabilites.

Think about it:

You plugin your car in at night so you use less fuel and need to travel to the gas station less, so getting the diesel isn't as much as a drag (considering stations aren't as popular as petro or gasoline).

What would the fuel economy be with a 60 mile trip like that..

40 miles on electricity
20 miles on diesel

Amazing it would be I tell you!

[momdogz]

Sure!

I bought a used Jetta TDI so I could use biodiesel. I love it, and get
pretty good mileage - 42-45mpg. It was frustrating to know that
there were clean diesels in Europe, but not in the US. I couldn't
even purchase one in Europe, and bring it over here.

It's about time.

[udornthani2]

A diesel Honda? That gets 62.8 miles a gallon?

The last line needs clarification. Yes, diesels are high compression and long stroke also slower revving and lower horsepower, but higher torque, capacity and engine refinements on a par compared to gasoline engines. They burn oil at high heat using the slow burn and long stroke to extract the energy from the oil.
The have lots of torque (long stroke and high compression), but (horse) power depends on the rate the energy is produced and in that category gasoline engines win hands down. What diesel produces nearly two horsepower per cubic inch which is now frequently seen in higher efficiency gas engines? And turbo-charging or supercharging gets you even more horsepower. A twin-turbo diesel might make the bottomor middle of the pack, but there's only one I know of and it's designed more like a gas engine.

[sallybranam]

Diesel Honda

In your article about the upcoming Honda, you made some comparisons to the Prius. You said that Priuses get 60 mpg in the city. They don't. They get between 40 and 45 mpg. I had one and took it back, because I was so disappointed. Toyota doesn't claim that the Prius gets 60 mpg; the EPA does. Toyota does play on this erroneous estimate though. There have been news and TV magazine programs about this discrepancy. In my humble opinion, there should be a class-action lawsuit.

[flyingscot4]

nothing new

These Japanese diesels are only new to the US. Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, and almost every other manufacturer has diesels in Europe. Most taxi's are diesel and the Japanese products are very popular in that area. Why they are not available in the US is not a difficult question.

[jswt]

Diesel honda

OK. Big deal. Don't need diesel, don't need corn fed cars (which are a detriment to the ecology). Car manufacturers have had devices that extend mileage since 1956 on gasoline engine without the excess garbage that kills out environment.

Maybe you should expound on that.

[dhectorg]

You are right that corn is about the dumbest thing to make fuels out of, however, there are numerous other plants, animal fats, and other byproducts (that we don't eat or need for any other purpose) that can be used to produce fuel with far fewer ill effects on the environment than gasoline. If you are suggesting that gasoline is the best that we can do, you are either being disingenuous, or are simply uninformed. It is my opinion that bio-diesel and fully electric cars are the only solutions to the "oil crisis" that we are in the midst of. Unfortunately, there are so many mouth pieces for the oil industry jabbering away online, that most people don't know fact from fiction.

[no rookie]

Diesel Honda now were talking

How can the foreign automakers adapt so quickly to the needs of the American situation. I remmeber volkswagon had a rabbitt boasting 54.5 mpg during the late 70's & 80's. These most adaptable versions offer relief and are workable. Remember the big three holding meetings, studying feasibility and market needs only to miss time their production entry with a inferior product. Let us revamp mgmt. The car makers are out of touch ,just as the politicians are with their target market.Fuel crunch & chrylser is building hot rods with hemi's gad zooks

[no rookie]

volkswagon diesels

A recent check I found vw mpg has slipped over the time to the late 30's to early 40's since then. At least thats what their brochures say.Hmmm Is this a means to regulate the flow and cost of a texan president manipulating oil prices & flow? What about hydrogen and electric cars that a working man can afford.

[moparlou]

Diesel Honda

After visiting Italy and seeing the beautifully styled cars that were equipped with diesel engines, it is amazing that this technology has not come to the US sooner. I was standing next to an Alfa Romeo 4 door sedan and didn't know it was a diesel. There was no tell-tale noise, smell or vibration.

[Wood Heat]

Will it make it?

I sure hope so, but my thought is that if we can produce cars getting 20 mpg that means it will use three gallons of gas to go as far as one gallon in this diesel honda. That means less fuel tax - less money for the 'roads' Seems there is some government agency that does not want this.

I have a friend in R&D at Honda and he says Honda has the ability to get that mileage with gas as well.

I hope the auto industry comes of age like in Euorpe, but I have my serious doubts. Because they want all the fuel tax dollars possible.