Comments on: Apple hangs up on India call center
Previous plans to open a new call center in Bangalore have been canceled, but no reasons are given.
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http://news.com.com/IBM+to+pour+6+billion+into+India/2100-1014_3-6080346.html?tag=nefd.top
"IBM, the world's largest computer services company, said Tuesday that it plans to expand its services, software, hardware and research businesses in India, where it already is the largest multinational company with 43,000 employees in 14 cities, up from 4,900 in 2002."
That translates into 43000 more american jobs lost and not just call center jobs, but hardware and software design and research jobs. I don't think it's just the cost factor which is driving more companies over there. So instead of complaining about accents and 'lack of creativity in Indians', think about what went wrong and what can be done so that it doesn't happen again and again.
"IF" the various companies that "outsource"[the entire middle class]to the 3rd world could pay those HERE the same price for the same job, they would!
They CAN'T and don't expect ANY company that can "outsource" to not do it ASAP!
USA and Western Europe govt policies have LET "outsourcing" be their way to cut cost and improve their bottom line!
When USA & Western Europe decide to have "trade policy" that benefits their countries, ONLY then will it happen, until then, expect the 3rd world to be the BIG DOG in Capitalism! India, China, Brazil have already learned this, more will follow and the MIDDLE CLASSES of USA & Western Europe will be a memory!
http://news.com.com/IBM+to+pour+6+billion+into+India/2100-1014_3-6080346.html?tag=nefd.top
"IBM, the world's largest computer services company, said Tuesday that it plans to expand its services, software, hardware and research businesses in India, where it already is the largest multinational company with 43,000 employees in 14 cities, up from 4,900 in 2002."
That translates into 43000 more american jobs lost and not just call center jobs, but hardware and software design and research jobs. I don't think it's just the cost factor which is driving more companies over there. So instead of complaining about accents and 'lack of creativity in Indians', think about what went wrong and what can be done so that it doesn't happen again and again.
"IF" the various companies that "outsource"[the entire middle class]to the 3rd world could pay those HERE the same price for the same job, they would!
They CAN'T and don't expect ANY company that can "outsource" to not do it ASAP!
USA and Western Europe govt policies have LET "outsourcing" be their way to cut cost and improve their bottom line!
When USA & Western Europe decide to have "trade policy" that benefits their countries, ONLY then will it happen, until then, expect the 3rd world to be the BIG DOG in Capitalism! India, China, Brazil have already learned this, more will follow and the MIDDLE CLASSES of USA & Western Europe will be a memory!
Be the call center in India, Phillipines, Taiwan, Alabama,etc it matters LITTLE!
Kindly understand that ALL call centers operate the SAME WAY!
THEY READ FROM A SCRIPT OF KNOWN PROBLEMS!
NONE of the "1st level" employees at ANY of these call centers know ANYTHING more than reading their scripts of known problems!
"2nd level" employees know slightly more and can often help a "known problem"
"3rd level
employees tend to be in supervision, often have superior understanding of the product, but more often than not, ONLY answer "known problems"!
The problem is NOT WHERE the tech support/call center is located, the problem IS tech supports futile understanding of their OWN products!
A prime example is DELL: Their EARLY tech support were ALL from parts of USA, they KNEW their machines inside and out, now, they "outsource" their tech support and the folks that answer the phones are little more than "script readers"!
Try this when talking WITH tech support[from ANY call center ANY place on earth]"
"please talk slower"
"please repeat"
do the above steps as often as needed, work WITH tech support and they'll bend over backwards to HELP you with YOUR problem!
Have patience!
I've talked with tech support/call centers from various parts of the planet and USA and have had trouble understanding various "ways" that they speak English! Be it from Alabama, NY or "overseas"!
Be the call center in India, Phillipines, Taiwan, Alabama,etc it matters LITTLE!
Kindly understand that ALL call centers operate the SAME WAY!
THEY READ FROM A SCRIPT OF KNOWN PROBLEMS!
NONE of the "1st level" employees at ANY of these call centers know ANYTHING more than reading their scripts of known problems!
"2nd level" employees know slightly more and can often help a "known problem"
"3rd level
employees tend to be in supervision, often have superior understanding of the product, but more often than not, ONLY answer "known problems"!
The problem is NOT WHERE the tech support/call center is located, the problem IS tech supports futile understanding of their OWN products!
A prime example is DELL: Their EARLY tech support were ALL from parts of USA, they KNEW their machines inside and out, now, they "outsource" their tech support and the folks that answer the phones are little more than "script readers"!
Try this when talking WITH tech support[from ANY call center ANY place on earth]"
"please talk slower"
"please repeat"
do the above steps as often as needed, work WITH tech support and they'll bend over backwards to HELP you with YOUR problem!
Have patience!
I've talked with tech support/call centers from various parts of the planet and USA and have had trouble understanding various "ways" that they speak English! Be it from Alabama, NY or "overseas"!
on about funny accents and write-off foreigners as cheap,
imperfect replacements.
Johnny can't do math (at least none of the hundreds of Johnny's I've
taught). And with our attitudes, that won't change soon enough.
If Americans want to stay competive, we need to invest in our
strengths of innovation, basic research, and corporate leadership.
great gng dude !
NO OFFENCE BUT U AMERICANS WHINE ABOUT NT UNDERSTANDING ENGLISH .. U CANT EVEN PRONOUNCE PARTITION ! IN ONE WORD LEAVE ASIDE DREAMS OF UNDERSTANDING INDIANS!
ATLEAST I AM SURE INDIANS SPEAK WAYYYY GOOD ENGLISH THAN AMERICANS !
on about funny accents and write-off foreigners as cheap,
imperfect replacements.
Johnny can't do math (at least none of the hundreds of Johnny's I've
taught). And with our attitudes, that won't change soon enough.
If Americans want to stay competive, we need to invest in our
strengths of innovation, basic research, and corporate leadership.
great gng dude !
NO OFFENCE BUT U AMERICANS WHINE ABOUT NT UNDERSTANDING ENGLISH .. U CANT EVEN PRONOUNCE PARTITION ! IN ONE WORD LEAVE ASIDE DREAMS OF UNDERSTANDING INDIANS!
ATLEAST I AM SURE INDIANS SPEAK WAYYYY GOOD ENGLISH THAN AMERICANS !
But I have to say that 90% of the time, the people I get that I know are in Indian call centers just don't do a very good job. That 90% figure is down from 99.9%, BTW, so I guess it's getting better.
I believe the fault really lies with the companies doing the hiring. For all this talk you hear about all the "super intelligent computer science people" in India, I don't believe the companies who offshore technical support centers to India are bothering to look for those people. I think they're looking for the cheapest people they can find, with no regard whatsoever to their technical abilities.
The same thing could happen in any country where companies offshoring are ONLY looking for a warm body to fill a seat and read from a script, regardless of the person's (lack of) technical abilities.
Charles Whealton
Chuck Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com
But I have to say that 90% of the time, the people I get that I know are in Indian call centers just don't do a very good job. That 90% figure is down from 99.9%, BTW, so I guess it's getting better.
I believe the fault really lies with the companies doing the hiring. For all this talk you hear about all the "super intelligent computer science people" in India, I don't believe the companies who offshore technical support centers to India are bothering to look for those people. I think they're looking for the cheapest people they can find, with no regard whatsoever to their technical abilities.
The same thing could happen in any country where companies offshoring are ONLY looking for a warm body to fill a seat and read from a script, regardless of the person's (lack of) technical abilities.
Charles Whealton
Chuck Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com
As a person who dealt will Apple's tech support people in
Bangalore and hit every pothole imaginable in attempting to
secure an RA number for a broken iPod, the problem - in this
case and others - centered on the "Indian mind" vs the
"American mind". We, as Americans, speak English, but we are a
people who communicate very intuitively, to our credit. Our
language is full of innuendoes, short-hand, and "asides" that we
take for granted. These are lost, even misinterpreted, when
taken literally - and the "Indian mind" is so often a literal mind.
I respect the Indian mind and enjoy the products of its genius
each day. However, if it fails to fully interpret the language cues
and signals of an English spoken by Americans, it does not
work.
MT Bucci
Michael Thomas Group USA
One I keep having nightmares over...
I hit HP's website because I needed the driver to make an IPAQ wireless card work with my IPAQ 3950 handheld with PCMCIA holster. I >KNEW< I had seen it before but for the life of me, I couldn't remember exactly where. I was in a hurry and figured I'd try HP's "instant IM with a customer service representative".
To make a long story short, the person, who I'm sure was in an Indian call center, found me my driver - let there be no doubt about that. However, after around 20 minutes, I gave up trying to explain to the tech support person WHY the driver should be on the web page with all the other drivers (Windows 98/2000/XP, etc.) for that particular wireless card. They just didn't seem to understand the point I was trying to make.
I guess this could be considered something other than lack of training, however, at the time I considered it a training issue. Maybe you're right. Like you, I >WON'T< lump all people from India into that some grouping, but boy, that was seriously irritating.
I work with some really great people of Indian decent that I >NEVER< have a single problem communicating with. But there's no question that I do see some type of issue (training or linguistic/cultural, who's to say?) with the people that offshoring/outsourcing companies are hiring.
Charles R. Whealton
Chuck Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com
- It is a cultural & linguistic difference
- by mbucci June 7, 2006 2:37 PM PDT
- No, it is not India or Indians.
- Like this Reply to this comment
-
-
- You have legitimate points...
- by chuck_whealton June 16, 2006 11:16 AM PDT
- Yea, I've also dealt with people in India that just couldn't seem to grasp the point I was making, no doubt.
- Like this
-
Showing 2 of 2 pages (182 Comments)As a person who dealt will Apple's tech support people in
Bangalore and hit every pothole imaginable in attempting to
secure an RA number for a broken iPod, the problem - in this
case and others - centered on the "Indian mind" vs the
"American mind". We, as Americans, speak English, but we are a
people who communicate very intuitively, to our credit. Our
language is full of innuendoes, short-hand, and "asides" that we
take for granted. These are lost, even misinterpreted, when
taken literally - and the "Indian mind" is so often a literal mind.
I respect the Indian mind and enjoy the products of its genius
each day. However, if it fails to fully interpret the language cues
and signals of an English spoken by Americans, it does not
work.
MT Bucci
Michael Thomas Group USA
One I keep having nightmares over...
I hit HP's website because I needed the driver to make an IPAQ wireless card work with my IPAQ 3950 handheld with PCMCIA holster. I >KNEW< I had seen it before but for the life of me, I couldn't remember exactly where. I was in a hurry and figured I'd try HP's "instant IM with a customer service representative".
To make a long story short, the person, who I'm sure was in an Indian call center, found me my driver - let there be no doubt about that. However, after around 20 minutes, I gave up trying to explain to the tech support person WHY the driver should be on the web page with all the other drivers (Windows 98/2000/XP, etc.) for that particular wireless card. They just didn't seem to understand the point I was trying to make.
I guess this could be considered something other than lack of training, however, at the time I considered it a training issue. Maybe you're right. Like you, I >WON'T< lump all people from India into that some grouping, but boy, that was seriously irritating.
I work with some really great people of Indian decent that I >NEVER< have a single problem communicating with. But there's no question that I do see some type of issue (training or linguistic/cultural, who's to say?) with the people that offshoring/outsourcing companies are hiring.
Charles R. Whealton
Chuck Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com