Version: 2008

Comments on: Blizzard wins lawsuit on video game hacking

Players do not have the right to reverse-engineer the company's games to improve their playability, a court rules.

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Precisely why the DMCA must go.
by Remo_Williams September 2, 2005 6:29 AM PDT
Blizzard deserves all the negative press that is sure to follow. Enthusiasts create a better environment for the game, and are shut down. Nice.

No mention of illegal copies or anything. Just shutting down innovation that they cannot charge you a fee for enjoying.

-R
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DMCA
by System Tyrant September 2, 2005 6:46 AM PDT
I don't think it needs to go, but it does need to be rethought. The sad part of our American government is that in many case to get one good law passed you have to pass two uniforciable and useless laws. Or in the case of the DMCA you have a lot of BS parts for all the good parts.
I disagree
by Christopher Hall September 2, 2005 7:35 AM PDT
The games are Blizzard's intellectual properties. Programmers with the means should not be allowed to take apart the program to see what makes it tick, then set up their own portals, regardless their reasoning. If Blizzard had intended to make the game open source or freely moddable by the mod community, they would have surely done so.
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More about click wrap agreements
by CagedAnimal September 2, 2005 8:14 AM PDT
I think this is more an issue about click wrap agreements than DMCA. If you purchase a product, you should be able to act as if it is an object you own, and in the case of something copytrighted, make any non-infringing use of.

Software is licensed instead of purchased because it enables the publishers to undermine a lot of rights someone would have if they purchased it. It is really a BS tactic, but it works.

If that fails they can always fall back on DMCA.

I too think DMCA has its place, but that place is not so software vendors and content providers can dictate what purchasers of content can and can't do with it. That is what Fair Use and other exemptions to copyright law are for. If the protections were only means of tracking down the source of infringments and bypassing those mechanisms were the thing that was illegal, I don't think there would be a problem.
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Precisely why the DMCA must go.
by Remo_Williams September 2, 2005 6:29 AM PDT
Blizzard deserves all the negative press that is sure to follow. Enthusiasts create a better environment for the game, and are shut down. Nice.

No mention of illegal copies or anything. Just shutting down innovation that they cannot charge you a fee for enjoying.

-R
Reply to this comment
DMCA
by System Tyrant September 2, 2005 6:46 AM PDT
I don't think it needs to go, but it does need to be rethought. The sad part of our American government is that in many case to get one good law passed you have to pass two uniforciable and useless laws. Or in the case of the DMCA you have a lot of BS parts for all the good parts.
I disagree
by Christopher Hall September 2, 2005 7:35 AM PDT
The games are Blizzard's intellectual properties. Programmers with the means should not be allowed to take apart the program to see what makes it tick, then set up their own portals, regardless their reasoning. If Blizzard had intended to make the game open source or freely moddable by the mod community, they would have surely done so.
View all 2 replies
More about click wrap agreements
by CagedAnimal September 2, 2005 8:14 AM PDT
I think this is more an issue about click wrap agreements than DMCA. If you purchase a product, you should be able to act as if it is an object you own, and in the case of something copytrighted, make any non-infringing use of.

Software is licensed instead of purchased because it enables the publishers to undermine a lot of rights someone would have if they purchased it. It is really a BS tactic, but it works.

If that fails they can always fall back on DMCA.

I too think DMCA has its place, but that place is not so software vendors and content providers can dictate what purchasers of content can and can't do with it. That is what Fair Use and other exemptions to copyright law are for. If the protections were only means of tracking down the source of infringments and bypassing those mechanisms were the thing that was illegal, I don't think there would be a problem.
View reply
If Blizzard was smart...
by C.Schroeder September 2, 2005 9:11 AM PDT
they would patent and license the communication protocol. By the time the patent expires, the games that depend on the protocol will most likely be dead products, like so many games that have come before them.

The only way to convince companies to not use click-wrap agreements to protect their trade secrets, as Blizzard has done, is for consumers to vote with their wallets and not buy these products and/or services.
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If Blizzard was smart...
by C.Schroeder September 2, 2005 9:11 AM PDT
they would patent and license the communication protocol. By the time the patent expires, the games that depend on the protocol will most likely be dead products, like so many games that have come before them.

The only way to convince companies to not use click-wrap agreements to protect their trade secrets, as Blizzard has done, is for consumers to vote with their wallets and not buy these products and/or services.
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Well Said
by TheShane September 2, 2005 9:22 AM PDT
Couldn't agree more.
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Well Said
by TheShane September 2, 2005 9:22 AM PDT
Couldn't agree more.
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When Law Doesn't Work!
by TomPabst September 2, 2005 10:59 AM PDT
Unfortunately in this country contract law is written primarily by court precedent. Meaning, lawyers successful in convincing judges that their point of view is correct (legally). Since the big companies have the big legal budgets, their point of view tends to prevail in contract law cases. I don't know that this "system" for setting contract law disputes is ever going to change and I'm not even sure there's something better to change to!

That being said, it seems to me this ruling is tantamount to my buying a Ford Mustang, and then being prevented from installing a "better" after-market part on it....by Ford Motor Company! Obviously, Ford can't do that and to the extent they can prevail upon you to buy only Ford-approved products for your Mustang, they can excersize void-warranty provisions and not much more.

Intellectual property isn't by itself, being properly defined by contract law rulings in that there is no distinction (it seems to me) being made as to whether it "is something" (like a photo or a painting) or "does something" (like an executable computer program). Are the courts supressing free-enterprise product improvement with these rulings? Sure they are. Why can't I improve a computer program (or buy an improvement "plug-in" for it) like I can my automobile or many other items I purchase that "do something" rather than "are something?"

In my opinion, this is a case of "when the law doesn't work!" And, it's a reminder to never let lawyers write the law.
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Mustang Upgrade
by Christopher Hall September 2, 2005 11:32 AM PDT
No, they can't prevent you from doing it, but they can void your warranty out right. Fundamentally, it's the same concept, although Blizzard took it to a greater level, mostly to protect those who play their games legitimately. I can't think of a good cheating metaphor for upgrading a Mustang, though. I'm a bit out of my league, there.

Then again, I'm a Corvette guy. :-)
Upgrading a Mustang
by Jim Harmon September 3, 2005 11:34 PM PDT
That all depends on the contract you agreed to when you bought it. Blizzard's contract boils down to: Use it the way we designed, or forfeit any and all claim to it.

If we were talking about a product that costs as much as a Mustang, that would be a real problem. But we're talking about something that costs less than a tank of gas for that Mustang. I agree, product cost shouldn't be a factor - but don't try to deny that it is.
Bad comparison
by September 7, 2005 11:38 AM PDT
If you buy a car and decide to modify, that is within your rights
as owner or the car though you may void warranty in the
process.

The thing is that you are buying a manufactured good as
opposed to a video game which is an intellectual/media good.
You can not make a backup of your car to disk, copy it to a
friend or xerox/scan the car to send to others for less than the
price you paid for the car. The only way to pirate a car is to
physically steal the car.

For your car analogy to be right, you would need to lease the car
and complain that you cannot modify the car under lease.
When Law Doesn't Work!
by TomPabst September 2, 2005 10:59 AM PDT
Unfortunately in this country contract law is written primarily by court precedent. Meaning, lawyers successful in convincing judges that their point of view is correct (legally). Since the big companies have the big legal budgets, their point of view tends to prevail in contract law cases. I don't know that this "system" for setting contract law disputes is ever going to change and I'm not even sure there's something better to change to!

That being said, it seems to me this ruling is tantamount to my buying a Ford Mustang, and then being prevented from installing a "better" after-market part on it....by Ford Motor Company! Obviously, Ford can't do that and to the extent they can prevail upon you to buy only Ford-approved products for your Mustang, they can excersize void-warranty provisions and not much more.

Intellectual property isn't by itself, being properly defined by contract law rulings in that there is no distinction (it seems to me) being made as to whether it "is something" (like a photo or a painting) or "does something" (like an executable computer program). Are the courts supressing free-enterprise product improvement with these rulings? Sure they are. Why can't I improve a computer program (or buy an improvement "plug-in" for it) like I can my automobile or many other items I purchase that "do something" rather than "are something?"

In my opinion, this is a case of "when the law doesn't work!" And, it's a reminder to never let lawyers write the law.
Reply to this comment
Mustang Upgrade
by Christopher Hall September 2, 2005 11:32 AM PDT
No, they can't prevent you from doing it, but they can void your warranty out right. Fundamentally, it's the same concept, although Blizzard took it to a greater level, mostly to protect those who play their games legitimately. I can't think of a good cheating metaphor for upgrading a Mustang, though. I'm a bit out of my league, there.

Then again, I'm a Corvette guy. :-)
Upgrading a Mustang
by Jim Harmon September 3, 2005 11:34 PM PDT
That all depends on the contract you agreed to when you bought it. Blizzard's contract boils down to: Use it the way we designed, or forfeit any and all claim to it.

If we were talking about a product that costs as much as a Mustang, that would be a real problem. But we're talking about something that costs less than a tank of gas for that Mustang. I agree, product cost shouldn't be a factor - but don't try to deny that it is.
Bad comparison
by September 7, 2005 11:38 AM PDT
If you buy a car and decide to modify, that is within your rights
as owner or the car though you may void warranty in the
process.

The thing is that you are buying a manufactured good as
opposed to a video game which is an intellectual/media good.
You can not make a backup of your car to disk, copy it to a
friend or xerox/scan the car to send to others for less than the
price you paid for the car. The only way to pirate a car is to
physically steal the car.

For your car analogy to be right, you would need to lease the car
and complain that you cannot modify the car under lease.
Solution: Don't Buy Blizzard Products
by September 2, 2005 1:03 PM PDT
Since our legal system so readily defers to the will of a Corporate Law Department, the only alternative to a system where we don't actually own anything, is to not actually "purchase" any licenses for products of companies who are abusively arrogant about modifications.

As for the cheating argument, there is nothing worse than an effective cheat to ruin an online game, but if you look at what is out there today, most of the anti-cheat software is written by 3rd party companies and not by Blizzard, EA, Ubi, etc.

So what if someone came out with a 99% effective cheat detection tool and Blizzard didn't like it? They would get sued, and forced to sell the program to Blizzard as part of a civil "settlement". OK, now if getting all paranoid.....is that the Feds knocking at my door....I better close down Kazaa.
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Solution: Don't Buy Blizzard Products
by September 2, 2005 1:03 PM PDT
Since our legal system so readily defers to the will of a Corporate Law Department, the only alternative to a system where we don't actually own anything, is to not actually "purchase" any licenses for products of companies who are abusively arrogant about modifications.

As for the cheating argument, there is nothing worse than an effective cheat to ruin an online game, but if you look at what is out there today, most of the anti-cheat software is written by 3rd party companies and not by Blizzard, EA, Ubi, etc.

So what if someone came out with a 99% effective cheat detection tool and Blizzard didn't like it? They would get sued, and forced to sell the program to Blizzard as part of a civil "settlement". OK, now if getting all paranoid.....is that the Feds knocking at my door....I better close down Kazaa.
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Can anyone Say: Class Action Suit?
by wyrm_ksc September 3, 2005 1:45 PM PDT
How bout next time one of these game companies realeses beta grade software that requiers you to download a patch on line before its playable we all join forces and sue the living crap out of them. This is most true for games that do not need to be played on line in the first place. These hackers were trying to improve thier product for them, for FREE!
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Upgrading for free???
by Jim Harmon April 25, 2008 11:38 AM PDT
Unlikely.

I believe (personal opinion based on observation of similar situations) that it's far more likely that they were trying to start their own network for unauthorized copies of Blizzard software.

What good is it to download WoW on eDonkey if you can't use it?
Can anyone Say: Class Action Suit?
by wyrm_ksc September 3, 2005 1:45 PM PDT
How bout next time one of these game companies realeses beta grade software that requiers you to download a patch on line before its playable we all join forces and sue the living crap out of them. This is most true for games that do not need to be played on line in the first place. These hackers were trying to improve thier product for them, for FREE!
Reply to this comment
Upgrading for free???
by Jim Harmon September 3, 2005 11:39 PM PDT
Unlikely.

I believe (personal opinion based on observation of similar situations) that it's far more likely that they were trying to start their own network for unauthorized copies of Blizzard software.

What good is it to download WoW on eDonkey if you can't use it?
I say good for Blizz! But!
by inachu June 15, 2007 5:46 AM PDT
I think it is ok to do this stuff if it stays within the confines of your own home.

I am sure there are hundreds of programmers across the USA and thousands across the world who have hacked their own software titles to make them run better and such.
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I say good for Blizz! But!
by inachu June 15, 2007 5:46 AM PDT
I think it is ok to do this stuff if it stays within the confines of your own home.

I am sure there are hundreds of programmers across the USA and thousands across the world who have hacked their own software titles to make them run better and such.
Reply to this comment
by kb_z December 5, 2008 10:21 AM PST
the thing is... if they want no piracy, then why they have an open page, to download 'trials' which are actually 100% functional games?

this is a hard hit for many of the private servers, which are going bye-bye...
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