Comments on: Suit calls HP printer cartridges defective

Lawsuit seeks class action status, asks for restitution, damages and other compensation for cartridges purchased after February 2001.

[grossph]

Are they nuts

Maybe someone can explain to me how the cartridge "knows" when to expire since there is not clock mechanism build into the printers Now I agree that using the chips to stop printing even if the cartridge is not completely empty is wrong, but this law suit is a waste of time.

It will only make the lawyers wealthier and the cartriges more expensive.

[System Tyrant]

Maybe

I'm not really trying to disagree with you, but how do you know hp didn't build some kind of timer into it's printers that works in conjuction with ink cartridges? I don't really think this lawsuit is without merrit.

[katamari]

Simple.

The printer keeps a TON of statistical information about, well, everything ranging from the number of drops used, to how effective the ink deployment was on the paper (yes, really).

I can confirm what this lawsuit is complaining about -- and the best part is, if you DISABLE the check which prematurely tells you cartridges are empty, __THERE IS NO WAY TO RE-ENABLE IT, EVER__. Yes, you read that right, and it's confirmed by HP as well -- I am NOT talking out of my arse. It's a PERMANENT change.

The other problem with these printers is that they have historically "cleaned" the heads and the ink carts too often. On my HP printer purchased in 2002, prior to printing, the unit would regularly "clean" itself, emptying out TONS AND TONS of ink into sponges located in the right side area of the printer. It's no wonder the ink carts go empty so quickly...

This lawsuit is completely legitimate, and I hope the consumer wins out.

I beg to differ

I have an HP 2250 and three of my four cartridges just had to be replaced because they "expired". They were over half full of ink. Each cartridge is over 30 dollars and I would like to be able to use every bit of what I paid for. I am sure you would too if you were in my predicament. I am getting ripped off and it is not the first time I had to replace the dadburn cartridges because they "expired". There MUST be a chip in the cartridge that tells the printer when it "expires".

[grossph]

Are they nuts

Maybe someone can explain to me how the cartridge "knows" when to expire since there is not clock mechanism build into the printers Now I agree that using the chips to stop printing even if the cartridge is not completely empty is wrong, but this law suit is a waste of time.

It will only make the lawyers wealthier and the cartriges more expensive.

[System Tyrant]

Maybe

I'm not really trying to disagree with you, but how do you know hp didn't build some kind of timer into it's printers that works in conjuction with ink cartridges? I don't really think this lawsuit is without merrit.

[katamari]

Simple.

The printer keeps a TON of statistical information about, well, everything ranging from the number of drops used, to how effective the ink deployment was on the paper (yes, really).

I can confirm what this lawsuit is complaining about -- and the best part is, if you DISABLE the check which prematurely tells you cartridges are empty, __THERE IS NO WAY TO RE-ENABLE IT, EVER__. Yes, you read that right, and it's confirmed by HP as well -- I am NOT talking out of my arse. It's a PERMANENT change.

The other problem with these printers is that they have historically "cleaned" the heads and the ink carts too often. On my HP printer purchased in 2002, prior to printing, the unit would regularly "clean" itself, emptying out TONS AND TONS of ink into sponges located in the right side area of the printer. It's no wonder the ink carts go empty so quickly...

This lawsuit is completely legitimate, and I hope the consumer wins out.

I beg to differ

I have an HP 2250 and three of my four cartridges just had to be replaced because they "expired". They were over half full of ink. Each cartridge is over 30 dollars and I would like to be able to use every bit of what I paid for. I am sure you would too if you were in my predicament. I am getting ripped off and it is not the first time I had to replace the dadburn cartridges because they "expired". There MUST be a chip in the cartridge that tells the printer when it "expires".

[aglennon]

Cartridges

If this is true, then how can users refill them & the cartridges continue to work? Is there a microscopic "float" inside of them? :-)

[System Tyrant]

Someone give us a time length.

In all fairness how long are we talking about with regards to the date?

If we are talking about a year or more it would be concivable that you would throw the cartridge away before the date problem. I don't know to many people that refill them more than three times (of course that doesn't mean people don't). Most of them use them up in a year even then.

Oh, well, I have constantly told people not buy anything made by HP outside of the Corp enviroment (i.e. HP Laserjet 4200 and such). Having worked on a lot of HP computer I can tell you they suck.

The printer shuts down, my dear.

When the printer decides the cartridge has expired, it REFUSES TO WORK. I even thought I would trick it, remove the cartridge and then put it back in... but that didn't work. Lights come on and the LCD screen says that the cartridge has expired. When you go to the store and buy that cartridge, you hold your breath when you plug the new one in because invariably, the printer will say another cartridge has expired. Another trip to the store... and, possibly another... AAAAAAGGGGHHHH!!!!

[aglennon]

Cartridges

If this is true, then how can users refill them & the cartridges continue to work? Is there a microscopic "float" inside of them? :-)

[System Tyrant]

Someone give us a time length.

In all fairness how long are we talking about with regards to the date?

If we are talking about a year or more it would be concivable that you would throw the cartridge away before the date problem. I don't know to many people that refill them more than three times (of course that doesn't mean people don't). Most of them use them up in a year even then.

Oh, well, I have constantly told people not buy anything made by HP outside of the Corp enviroment (i.e. HP Laserjet 4200 and such). Having worked on a lot of HP computer I can tell you they suck.

The printer shuts down, my dear.

When the printer decides the cartridge has expired, it REFUSES TO WORK. I even thought I would trick it, remove the cartridge and then put it back in... but that didn't work. Lights come on and the LCD screen says that the cartridge has expired. When you go to the store and buy that cartridge, you hold your breath when you plug the new one in because invariably, the printer will say another cartridge has expired. Another trip to the store... and, possibly another... AAAAAAGGGGHHHH!!!!

[Earl Benser]

Yeah, sure.....

Dispite JC's initials, the claim is pure BS. Just how stupid some
people, and their lawyers, can get may never be fully defined,
but this case certainly comes close. There is no conspiracy, no
'secret' programming, and no 'TON of statistical information'.
The printer is incapable of measuring or storing data, and for a
production cost of maybe $10 for a lightweight HP printer, it's
also economically impossible.

True, Windows drivers did a lot of unnecessary cleaning, but
with the latest drivers, that's no longer a problem. (Never was a
problem with OSX)

So go bury the urban legends. Just make sure you get legitimate
HP cartridges that have not been opened and your're in good
shape. But remember too that ink jet printers have a voracious
appetite for ink, especially in photo printing.

[System Tyrant]

And you expertise...

comes from where? I doubt anybody here has any real expertise when it comes to printer enginering or more to the point how HP enginered their printers. Drivers no doubt play a large role in how printers function, but they still have to gather info from the printer itself. Modern printers are far from stupid. If you want an example what can be stored on a small chip just look at satillite cards. They store the encryption engine that deciphers programming for the reciever. It also stores information as it is part processor and part memmory card.

Out of all the BS cases that get filed I don't believe this is one of them. It has more merrit than most cases filed against technology companies.

[katamari]

What?

They say ignorance is bliss...

Google search (again, look at Usenet/Groups): hp ink diagnostics

You'll find that HP printers -- and many other vendors' printers as well, it's not just an "HP thing" -- keep a load of statistics, especially relating to ink. Number of paper jams, number of sheets fed, number of sheets fed via full-duplex modules (double-sided printing), head re-alignment count, how many ink dots per inch, ink levels, blah blah blah... it goes on and on. All statistics are stored in memory-mapped NVRAM, kept internal to the printer (again, Google search: hp printer nvram).

Read it and weep, pal. If you want confirmation, you can ask numerous peers of mine who've worked on numerous *Jet series of HP printers, including the heads. Or try asking HP Customer Support -- it's a free phone call. If you'd rather do none of these things, then please bury your head in the ground; there is absolutely nothing frivolous about my claim. Step off.

[Earl Benser]

Yeah, sure.....

Dispite JC's initials, the claim is pure BS. Just how stupid some
people, and their lawyers, can get may never be fully defined,
but this case certainly comes close. There is no conspiracy, no
'secret' programming, and no 'TON of statistical information'.
The printer is incapable of measuring or storing data, and for a
production cost of maybe $10 for a lightweight HP printer, it's
also economically impossible.

True, Windows drivers did a lot of unnecessary cleaning, but
with the latest drivers, that's no longer a problem. (Never was a
problem with OSX)

So go bury the urban legends. Just make sure you get legitimate
HP cartridges that have not been opened and your're in good
shape. But remember too that ink jet printers have a voracious
appetite for ink, especially in photo printing.

[System Tyrant]

And you expertise...

comes from where? I doubt anybody here has any real expertise when it comes to printer enginering or more to the point how HP enginered their printers. Drivers no doubt play a large role in how printers function, but they still have to gather info from the printer itself. Modern printers are far from stupid. If you want an example what can be stored on a small chip just look at satillite cards. They store the encryption engine that deciphers programming for the reciever. It also stores information as it is part processor and part memmory card.

Out of all the BS cases that get filed I don't believe this is one of them. It has more merrit than most cases filed against technology companies.

[katamari]

What?

They say ignorance is bliss...

Google search (again, look at Usenet/Groups): hp ink diagnostics

You'll find that HP printers -- and many other vendors' printers as well, it's not just an "HP thing" -- keep a load of statistics, especially relating to ink. Number of paper jams, number of sheets fed, number of sheets fed via full-duplex modules (double-sided printing), head re-alignment count, how many ink dots per inch, ink levels, blah blah blah... it goes on and on. All statistics are stored in memory-mapped NVRAM, kept internal to the printer (again, Google search: hp printer nvram).

Read it and weep, pal. If you want confirmation, you can ask numerous peers of mine who've worked on numerous *Jet series of HP printers, including the heads. Or try asking HP Customer Support -- it's a free phone call. If you'd rather do none of these things, then please bury your head in the ground; there is absolutely nothing frivolous about my claim. Step off.

[1moreguy]

Yeah right.

I've worked at a company named Stream for 19 months now, doing the Technical support for Hewlett Packard's Printing and imaging devision. I have personally disassembled hundreds of HP ink cartridges and laser toner cartridges. There is no expiration chip. I've spoken to hundreds of customers that are using cartridges FAR past their expiration date. I myself have used many HP cartridges past expiration. Yes there is an expiration DATE on the chip, but that is due to chemical break-down in the ink if it is stored too long.
People need to give their heads a shake. Only in America.

[1moreguy]

Ooops

When I said DATE on the chip, I meant date on the cartridge itself. On the actual body of the cartridge is an expiration date stamped in. lol Ooops

[1moreguy]

Yeah right.

I've worked at a company named Stream for 19 months now, doing the Technical support for Hewlett Packard's Printing and imaging devision. I have personally disassembled hundreds of HP ink cartridges and laser toner cartridges. There is no expiration chip. I've spoken to hundreds of customers that are using cartridges FAR past their expiration date. I myself have used many HP cartridges past expiration. Yes there is an expiration DATE on the chip, but that is due to chemical break-down in the ink if it is stored too long.
People need to give their heads a shake. Only in America.

[1moreguy]

Ooops

When I said DATE on the chip, I meant date on the cartridge itself. On the actual body of the cartridge is an expiration date stamped in. lol Ooops

Not So Sure - Some merit

I have a similar experience but witha Canon BJC 4000 printer. A few years ago I bought a brnd new printer, printed one full A4 size page to test it. As these are expensive I never had the need to use the Colour printer. After about 11 or 12 months I tried to print, but it said the cartridge is empty, I could feel the weight of the ink and I thought the ink has solidified and hence it is not usable.

This contervesory may not be limitted to HP. It may be that the technology is not mature enough to determine the status of ink cartridge properly
Not so sure about sinister intent of ink cartridge producers.

Yet it is conceivable, a timer can be maintained on your host through your printer drivers.
I am sure more debate and facts will come out soon.

Not So Sure - Some merit

I have a similar experience but witha Canon BJC 4000 printer. A few years ago I bought a brnd new printer, printed one full A4 size page to test it. As these are expensive I never had the need to use the Colour printer. After about 11 or 12 months I tried to print, but it said the cartridge is empty, I could feel the weight of the ink and I thought the ink has solidified and hence it is not usable.

This contervesory may not be limitted to HP. It may be that the technology is not mature enough to determine the status of ink cartridge properly
Not so sure about sinister intent of ink cartridge producers.

Yet it is conceivable, a timer can be maintained on your host through your printer drivers.
I am sure more debate and facts will come out soon.