Comments on: Dell brings back XP on home systems

After adding it back as an option for small businesses, direct seller offers older OS on consumer machines in response to demand.

[KonradK]

"inability of Vista to resonate with consumers"

The WOW starts NOW, err perhaps later.

[`WarpKat]

No...

I would call this the 'inability of Vista to REASON with consumers.'

It HAS NO reason to begin with.

[Fil0403]

Inability of (some) consumers of learning about Vista

Just because some people are dumb enough to want XP instead if Vista, that doesn't mean the WOW hasn't started already for the (many) people who actually know something about Vista and (because of that) have it and use it already.

[Fil0403]

Inability of (some) consumers of learning about Vista

Just because some people are dumb enough to want XP instead if Vista, that doesn't mean the WOW hasn't started already for the (many) people who actually know something about Vista and (because of that) have it and use it already.

[Middletown]

Dell listens MS didnt

"We heard you loud and clear on bringing the Windows XP option back to our Dell consumer PC offerings," thats the best thing out of TX ive heard in years.
Now if they would only bring their customer service back into the US.
I might buy one again.

[stupid_browner]

Customer Service

I called Dell's tech support about a month ago. If the guy I was talking to wasn't from the states, he had darn good english, and a very good southern accent.

[oxtail01]

Dell forced to listen, MS not.

Dell has to listen and execute to bring their business back up. MS is still a monopoly and smug (like how Dell got to be a few years back) and will not change until they realize that their business model is unsustainable (will happen soon). I think the public sentiment against MS has gone over the breaking point but MS don't or won't acknowledge it yet. MS is a dinasour on it's way to extinction.

[Albertv]

MS will soon listen as well

Here I am replying while downloading Kubuntu 7.04 final. Microsoft has to listen, or is it yet again misjudging it's user base. I will not buy Vista because of the DRM. I have 18 month to figure out which Linux Distro to continue my business in. Dell I'll buy your laptop when you load Linux, and than only if it is not from Novell. Microsoft I am not looking for a 'big brother', stick to writing OS's free of DRM and I might come back.

[DecliningUSDollar]

A reluctant "thanks dell"

Dell listened to the the consumer only because their bottom line was hurting. MS has bigger pockets and it will likely take a while for them to get the message ... they have lots of ca$h stuffed in their ears, so it may take a while.

It is nice to hear native speakers taking the support calls at Dell again. I would have gladly paid more $$$ up front to not have to deal with the guys in India.

With the decline in the US dollar, it will become more and more costly to do business overseas, especially in India, their economy - relatively speaking - is picking up. As with any other commodity, as the demand for skills grows in a limited labor market wages will begin to creep up. Coupled with the US dollar's decline relative to other currencies, it will not be long before other companies will begin to bring tech support, call centers and software development back to the US. In the next 5 years we may even begin to see US manufacturing begin to pick up again.

[TomboSlicko]

Suggestion

Put Aero and some nice graphics onto Windows XP and call it Vista SP1 and everyone will be happy. I agree that Vista sucks and is bloated and I miss XP. I am willing to pay for a downgrade if I could do it.

[Hep Cat]

Re: Suggestion

"Put Aero and some nice graphics onto Windows XP and call it Vista
SP1 and everyone will be happy."

Uh, isn't that all they did? Besides the "me-too" user authentication
services that don't protect anything and annoys people?

Vista hurls.

[TucsonAlexAZ]

What is stopping you?

If you want to downgrade to XP just go out and buy it. Its an easy install and the prices have dropped now that Vista is out.

[Arrgster]

I think that's a first

I can't remember an MS OS launch where there was so much pressure that big companies actually went back to the older OS. I myself recently purchased a laptop and didn't want Vista so I went with an MacBook. I'm not sure which way I would have gone had I had the choice of XP but now that I've used this Macbook I don't see switching back ever...

[Albertv]

I think that's a first

Good for you Arrgster! Microsoft has lost another well healed customer. I personally know of many like you. The less well off go to Linux and that's the market I am beginning to serve.

[caligirl862005]

Switching to Mac as well

I have two laptops - RAM is the same, both are Pentium II. The CPU speed differs somewhat. The laptop with the faster CPU is running XP. The laptop with the slower CPU is running 2000. I run the same software on each. Interesting thing is that I frequently find myself using the "old" laptop with 2000 as it's noticeably faster when running the same software/same number of windows opened/performing the same task. I regularly get blue screens with XP. My "old" laptop needs to be replaced. I'd been an IBM thinkpad user for years and just ordered a Mac, I can't see paying more for an ever worse operating system.

[wzrobin]

Recent Mac OS X convert here as well

In the last couple of months we've gone from 1 WinXP laptop, and 2 WinXP desktops to 1 MacBook Pro, 1 Mac Mini, and the WinXP laptop.

Due to unrelated hardware failures I had to replace both desktops over a span of about 3 weeks. The original plan had actually been to get Dell laptops to replace them both, but I really don't like many of the anti-consumer decisions microsoft has made with Vista, so I'm voting with my pocket book and have bought Macs.

I'm pretty happy with them to so far, so if you're listening Microsoft you just lost a tech professional who's been running a succession of mircosoft OSs since the days of MS-DOS.

[Penguinisto]

Actually, it's not (sort of).

When Microsoft tried a similar trick with Windows 2000 on the server end, they were met with hot resistance as well, and wound up extending Windows NT 4.0 support for years beyond its initial planned EOL.

Microsoft tried the pressure tactic of saying that all MCSE's who held Windows NT 4.0 certs would suddenly find themselves cert-less at the end of 2001 unless they upped to an MCSE in Windows 2000. They figured that if they could force the MCSE's to upgrade, the servers would follow.

After the entire MCSE community basically told MSFT where they could stick the forced retirement policy, MSFT backed off.

NT 4.0 was still so prevalent when Win2k3 came out, that I distinctly remember --first-hand-- the Win2k3 launch event presentation droids spending a highly inordinate amount of time touting the huge pile of NT4 -> Win2k3/AD migration tools included with [i]Windows 2003 Server[/i]. They even went to great pains to point out how reversible those migrations were!

I suspect that MSFT is about to find out very soon, and painfully, that Vista ain't exactly all that and a bag of chips. I suspect that MSFT is also likely quite unprepared to present any alternate solutions to Vista's bloat, bugginess, and the overall crap that's been plaguing it.

Sucks to be them... I've been happily using OSX and Linux at home for years, so I'm content to sit back and watch 'em scramble :)

/P

[saadshaheed]

Vista Transformation Pack

Here you go!

http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/OS-Enhancements/Vista-Transformation-Pack.shtml

Doesn't have aero, but looks just great on XP.

http://torrefranca.org/dev/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/xp.jpg

[Albertv]

Vista nah. Linux Areo

Try any Linux distribution and areo to your hearts content

[ReVeLaTeD]

Here's what you missed

Vista isn't jack without Aero. I mean seriously. Yes some of the organization things are nice, but really...what catches the consumer's eye? Aero Glass, period. Without it, there's just no point.

I had an Acer laptop which was eligible for the free Premium upgrade but that upgrade vendor was so difficult to work with I just kept the rebate and sold the laptop. One day when I can find a Premium-compatible laptop for $400-$500, I'll pick one up. For now my old Compaq clunker will make do.

[Hep Cat]

Ouch

Dell - putting the WOW back into XP, apparently.

[Vegaman_Dan]

About time

It's about time that the OEM listened to their customers. Microsoft keeps selling and supporting XP, so why should Dell decide for the customers what they can and cannot run? They should have offered XP and Vista side by side and let the customers choose.

From the story, it seems that people also wanted Linux, but that means having to support it, and I don't know if Dell's Customer Support (now back in the US after their horrible PR flop with WiPro of India)is ready to deal with the level of support required for Linux and new users. There's a very high learning curve to deal with there.

[Vegaman_Dan]

About time

It's about time that the OEM listened to their customers. Microsoft keeps selling and supporting XP, so why should Dell decide for the customers what they can and cannot run? They should have offered XP and Vista side by side and let the customers choose.

From the story, it seems that people also wanted Linux, but that means having to support it, and I don't know if Dell's Customer Support (now back in the US after their horrible PR flop with WiPro of India)is ready to deal with the level of support required for Linux and new users. There's a very high learning curve to deal with there.

[Renegade Knight]

Windows Vista is...

Per Microsoft:
"Windows Vista is safer, easier to use, better connected and more entertaining than any operating system we've ever released"
Per Reality:
Windows Vista is more annoying, kludgy, slower, more cumbersome, more difficult to work, and harder to get drivers for, than any operating system they've ever released.

Time for Service Pack 1 to roll back some of the cumbersome and keep some of XP's advantages.

[Lindy01]

FUD

Vista shipped with more drivers than XP did. The same crap was said about XP...no drivers....slower...why upgrade.

On a box with 1gig of RAM Vista is not slower....kludgy because you cant figure it out....more difficult to work, get a Mac if you can figure it out.

I am sure Vista will fail just like XP did....NOT. HP and Dell together sold 21 million PC's (not servers) in the first quarter of this year. I bet 15 million of them had Vista on them. Which is probably more than all of the Mac and Linux workstations that will be sold all year.

You can hate MS for lots of reasons, percieved or real. The fact is 2 year from now Vista will dominate the PC world.

[m.o.t.u.]

Well informed consumers.......

what a nightmare for Microsoft. I won't buy Vista because I can't justify junking a reliable older PC, running XP, so I can upgrade to a newer O/S. How many working order PC's will go this way? How does Microsoft propose to deal with the enormous volume of functioning PC's that will have to be scrapped so that consumers can upgrade to Vista? From an enviromental point of view this sort of corporate logic (or lack of) is unsustainable, they just don't know it yet.

[godam_registration]

Well MS expects to sell Vista with new PCs

You're right, upgrades are rarely viable because the hardware can't support it. We still got WIN2K on some computers in our labs and classrooms at Northeastern (not too many though). Upgrading usually doesn't make any dam sense - it's very surprising, the number of people who want to do that.

It's surprising, too, that people expected Vista to sell like XBOX 360 or something. XP won't become old for a few months AT LEAST. Also, it will take at least six months for the majority companies to have released a new Vista version. Until then, sales might be pretty slow.

[justmyluk]

Good move for Dell

I would be interesting to know how many new Vista systems have been sold only to have the consumer load their own copy of XP. It will also be interesting to track the numbers of people who will now choose XP over Vista. I know I'm keeping my XP Pro as long as possible.

[gdusseau]

XP dies in 2008...

Microsoft announced that support for XP will end next year (2008). After the usual "extended support deviations" that MS has historically displayed, XP may well become immortal, especially considering the requests received at Dell for XP instead of Vista.

[mbjr]

just checked out Dells' ideastorm site

The option to bring back XP was found on page 2 has over 10,000 votes.

I found it pretty interesting how the #1 request for a dell systems is for a preinstalled linux distro. (Sucker has about 122,000 votes!!!) Wow.

Strange though. I must be missing something obvious, but I thought Dell did offer workstations and notebooks with linux preinstalled on it. Unless this was someone else...

[tagno25]

not yet

Dell does not sell workstations and notebooks with linux preinstalled on them, but they do sell workstations with nothing installed

[hybris06]

Dell is in it to make money....!

Dell is a business and offering Linux/OpenOffice makes no sense for dell. Dell profits off Vista and XP sales. For example, I recently priced a XPS laptop that had home premium. It cost an additional $200 to upgrade to Vista Ultimate but I could buy Vista Ultimate OEM on New Egg for $190!

Considering I wanted to upgrade from home premium to ultimate shouldn't the fee only be $60 more at most? Home premium OEM on newegg is $120. But Dell is charging $200 in addition to get Ultimate. I would be better off getting Home Premium then buying Ultimate off newegg and upgrade it myself (at least I would have an extra valid OEM home license, no crapware on the newly installed OS, and an actual CD of Vista).

As for the free OpenOffice, if Dell offered that then they would be cannibalizing their sales of Microsoft Office (which makes them money).

No computer maker exists for the good of consumers, they exists to make money off the consumers (yes even Apple!).

[i_made_this]

mdjr - a funny anecdote...

In December 2003 after receiving Dell's monthly sales catalog for a couple years, I finally decided what I wanted for a system for our small business (+/- 150 employees) - the Red Hat distro pre-installed on the machine with the 3-year support contract including warranty - in in other words, the precise package they were offering on page 6 of the December catalog.

Phoned small business sales with my corporate Visa card at the ready to make what was for us a serious investment. CS lady says (in so many words): "Oh, I'm sorry but we can't fulfill that order." Me: "What's the problem? Out of stock? That's ok - we're not in urgent need but we just wish to get the order process going. Here let me give you our corporate card number, so you can enter the order now and deliver when you've replenished your stock. When do expect your stock to be replenished?" Dell CS lady: "It won't be replenished, sir. We're so sorry. Maybe you wish to consider Windows..." Me: "Oh, so in the eleven days between this catalog's date and today, you've not only depleted your stock, but you've also chosen to stop offering Linux pre-installed." Dell CS lady: "Not precisely, sir. (silence)" Me: "Well, you've been so kind, you know what? I'll make an easy order today. I'll take the Red Hat O/S alone in that nice looking red and black retail pack of there's that you're offering on page 15." Dell CS lady: "I'm sorry, sir, we can't fill that order either." Me: "OK. Which operating systems are you selling today?" Dell CS Lady: "Windows." Me: "Huh! Well, you've got the SUSE and the Red Hat on this page. I guess Mr Dell and his team of experts have made an expert decision that SUSE and Red Hat don't make the top quality products that Dell expects of its vendors? (silence)" Dell CS lady: "I'm sorry, Sir. Let me put you on with my supervisor. Hold just a moment, please."

A minute was more than five and counting. We chose HP and I'm glad we did. Now, our business doesn't even have to deal with all these Windows Vista issues. Unfortunately, I do at home because of these three networked XP Professionals.

[Lindy01]

They did

still did. You could get Red Hat Enterprise for a long time now.

Do you really think that ideastorm is visited AT ALL by the type of person that makes up 95% of Dell PC sales....no way. 122,000 votes from MS haters and Linux lovers....geeks....computer people.

I take care of small busineses for a living....several of them. I order all of their hardware. A typical user at those companies says this...."hey my PC is slow...order me a new one" and yes their 3 year old Dell with XP and 256megs of RAM is getting slow. They dont ask me..."Order me a new PC and get it with Linux". They dont even know what Linux is.

[alex65006900]

Windows XP on Dell Computers

I have not upgraded to Vista because i do not want
to spend the extra money. If Vista was $40 for an upgrade to home premium i would upgrade.If I was buying a new Dell computer w/ Windows Vista installed i would not get XP.

[spingle]

Here was I

... thinking I was the only one in the world who wanted Vista about as much as I wanted a terminal case of gonorrhea. Of course this will only prolong the time it takes for Windows to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory ... are they not hellbent on convincing the world they can make the worst products & decisions any business ever made?

[MRMOAV]

We made the switch...BACK!

Well, our 5 month expirement with Vista at our offices ended today. All 415 computers are back running windows XP. 5 months peaking into the future just wasn't for us. Way to many headaches and over 1500 hours of money wasted on tech support in 5 months!!!!, when we only had 190 the previous 5 months!! As bad as it was not a single tech support guy ever mentioned that we should have switched to a MAC!!! so take that macaholics!!!

[TucsonAlexAZ]

Good for consumers

As long as they sell systems with only 512MB they should keep selling XP. Vista's minimum requirements are a joke, it may run but its unuseable.

[oritpro]

Not all is at it appears

I think this move has more to do with the fact that Vista does not run very well on Dell's lower-end systems than it does consumer demand. Hardware manufacturers are still trying to get their drivers working under Vista, and this is creating a flood of support calls for Dell.

Smart move, yes, but I really don't think consumer requests had that much to do with it.

[Penguinisto]

...hear that whistling noise?

It's the sound of Vista falling as if flops back to Earth.

So, err, what's Microsoft going to do when they try to enforce an EOL on the critter and realize that even the OEM's don't want to play along anymore?

Heh.

/P

[peterjameskelly]

offering XP on new systems

Great move by Dell to offer XP for home and small business computers. My brand new Vista laptop purchased in Feb was a disaster. It could not connect to my work network 9th largest hospital system in the country. The IT despt told me no plans to allow Vista computers any time soon. I had to painfully reformat and get XP on the new laptop to make it useful. PK

[gdusseau]

Didn't someone say something about MS users?

No comment--gd :-)

[gdusseau]

Didn't someone say something about MS users?

No comment--gd :-)

[godam_registration]

D'oh! That blows

Wow I had no idea those restrictions were so tight...

[DecliningUSDollar]

Score!!!

I'm the "IT guy" at my company, I made the decree that Vista would not be allowed on the network until SP1 was out the door and maybe not until SP2 - because MS is smart that way and will likely push out a token SP1 just to get IT suckers on board. I have been purchasing refurbished PCs to keep the Vista wolf at bay. In all honesty, we do not need and cannot afford the hardware required to SIMPLY run Vista. For most things that we do here, we could still get by with Win 2k Pro and Office 2000. Most of the latest and greatest is geared toward multi media ... how is the multimedia experience going to help with Excel and MAS90?

[gdusseau]

Thumbup

HOOAH!

[mariomiy]

Since you are the decider,

I suggest you experiment with the following setup:
<nl>

Install a GNU/Linux distribution

Install VMWare on that

Install Windows XP as a virtual machine

Run applications as usual on Windows XP
</nl>
You have significant advantages if this works, especially if you disable networking on Windows and leave if as a GNU/Linux task. Or use GNU/Linux as a message-passing filter to avoid malware.
In this way, your company will never have to deal with Windows Vista, because it will never take off.

[Froboz23]

Reading from the same script?

Are these guys reading from the same script?

Dell small-business marketing director Tom West:
"demand is for the latest and greatest technology, which includes Windows Vista."

Microsoft product manager Michael Burk:
"consumers want the latest and greatest technology, and that includes Windows Vista."

It sounds like someone in Redmond has been handing out talking points.

[volterwd]

Just...

as i buy a comp through dell with vista... it lags up hardcore.

[solomonrex]

GAmes

Of course, Steam and Gametap don't work well with Vista, so plenty of consumers don't want Vista.

And you need a faster computer to run games on Vista, too. So there's plenty of reasons for home users to pass on it.