Comments on: Vista draining laptop batteries, patience

Microsoft's attempt to improve power management in Windows Vista hasn't made up for the pretty but power-hungry Aero interface, causing battery life to suffer.

[DraconumPB]

This makes sense...

...considering that, using Aero, your processor is working harder even when you're not using any programs, and working especially hard if you are. Harder working processor means it gets hotter, meaning the fan has to blow (on Vista typically my laptop's CPU fan is running all the time, well, RC1 anyway) which uses power. Not to mention that the harder working processor (AND the GPU) itself uses more power doing what it's doing.

I mean, I dunno... it just seems to be common sense to me. Don't like it? Don't use graphics-heavy rich applications, games, OS'es on your laptop, geez.

[ppgreat]

Games are a different issue

Much like using a portable for video encoding. You know you're
going to take the hit.

But just to run your OS? That is inexcusable on Microsoft's part.
And kicking it out the door (late) knowing that was an issue and
knowing the marketplace shows a disregard for the end user.

[boyd087]

With and Without Aero

Back during the RTM phase of Vista, I installed a copy on my laptop. Even without Aero turned on I saw battery life drop significantly compared to XP. Where I used to easily get 3.5 hours, I would be lucky to get 2 hours of time from a full charge. I decided to switch back to XP. Not surprisingly, my battery life went back to normal.

[HomeLights]

Cheaper and cheaper

Isn't this partially to blame to the battery manufacturers? They are making batteries cheaper and "Cheaper" - batteries catching on fire, batteries with little life.

We all want a cheap laptop but we're getting a checp battery to go along with it.

[herby67]

How long did you try?

I had about the same experience for the first few days, but after about a week battery life improved significantly.
Apparently this is due to Vista doing lots of indexing and file rearrangement during the first few days after instaleld (especially if you copy your old data to the machine) but when it went back to normal battery life improved, though it was still slightly higher than with XP.

[Ted Miller]

Vista is losing ground...Fast!

Just a side note. We use laptops and embedded computers for all the machines we build for the biomedical research industry, and lately we have been using windows XP as the operating system of choice. I just got through testing all of our equipment with windows Vista Business Edition. The results where both positive and scary. Although we had to change a couple of installers all the programs seemed to run fine. I did run into some problems with the Edgeport serial boxes, but Qualtech and Digiport worked fine. The scary part is how on earth are we going to fit Vista on our embedded computers? We also use laptops with our equipment which needs the Ethernet Port and even with the XP units we need to keep that port enabled along with the graphics drivers (these get disabled in battery mode on Dell units which we use) We also noticed with our JAVA based programs we had to disable the second core in a dual core machine. This all may sound like gibberish to some, but the point I am making is that in todays market and with a mutimillion dollar company like ours, we are really getting nervous. Are You??? Is linux going to be a God send? It would be a long process to change our C++ coding in all our programs to accommodate Linux and thats something really scary!

[HomeLights]

zzzzzzzz... I am awake !

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...you are right - you bored me. You just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this and I'll never get it back. How about just either (1) dealing with the issue or (2) using XP - Microsoft wins either way. Unless you are going to use RedHat or some flavor of Linux, you will have to deal with it.

[lesliejs]

to the rescue

i hear ubuntu is coming to the rescue. I think it would be worth redoing the programming if it saves you a lot of long-term profits.
At the corporate level, a different set of dynamics takes place. Vista might work for the average user, keep that in mind.
It was puzzling to hear about the Java based programs needing the second core disabled...

[jhodapp1]

Re: Vista is losing ground...Fast!

Ted, you should be able to code your embedded C++ apps in such a way as to be able to run the app on either Windows or Linux or Mac OS X, etc. Just code to an ANSI C++ spec. This is coming from someone who is in this industry and codes cross-platform applications. Applications that only run on one platform make you look bad in today's cross-platform world.

[Penguinisto]

Eh?

[i]"It would be a long process to change our C++ coding in all our programs to accommodate Linux and thats something really scary!"[/i]

If it's straight-up C++ (without .NET, VB, or any other MSFT-only nonsense in it), then what's the problem?

Also, embedded devices are written for the architecture anyway - ARM for instance.

So unless you're in up to your neck in C#, .NET, VB, or other such MSFT-only proprietary garbage (which real C++ is not), or if your coding staff is that reliant on MSFT's tools to do their jobs for them... there should be no real problems in porting the code. Just re-code the GUI bits and the rest should be a snap.

/P

[fred dunn]

It Essentially Runs Two Processors (Aero)...

The CPU and the GPU. MS recommends a high end video GPU for running Aero in Vista. Whether that is an integrated chip sucking power from having to read from System Memory constantly or an embedded Chip with it's own high speed memory.
You are running two processors the GPU especially gets hit hard with the Aero interface so even if you are just letting it idle with the no apps running the GPU is still working. In particular for those large wide screen 1920x1200 displays.
I'll bet you couldn't even watch a two hour movie without having to recharge because then both processors will be eating up the battery.

Ahh progress, ain't it wonderful?

[Lindy01]

Microsoft recommends

a DX9 video card with 128megs of RAM. I run Aero with out any problems on a Intel I950 intergrated GPU that uses system memory.

Right now its using 98megs of ram for Aero according to the Intel GPU utility. My power settings are on balance and my Core Duo processor is at 2% while I type this. I have about 10 things open right now.

I have not seen a difference but I only ever use my notebook on battery for an hour or so at a time. I have the 6cell battery it came with so its not going to be that great to begin with. My fan on this 15inch Acer almost never turns on.

[J_Satch]

Battery Drain?

Just wait until you have to buy it, it's also a great wallet drain!

[ppgreat]

Running Vista in Parallels on a Mac

Does this same battery drain occur on a Mac running Vista in
Parallels? Anyone have any experience doing that?

[shoffmueller]

Awesome question

Really interested to see anyone run that test and report here.

[shoffmueller]

Awesome question

Really interested to see anyone run that test and report here.

[jpsalvesen]

Intuitively: Yes

The laptop will actually perform more work running Vista under Paralells than running natively. That is because virtualization carries a certain overhead.

Of course, there might be magic I don't know about, but I'm predicting you'll see worse uptime on battery in the case you outline.

[TucsonAlexAZ]

that is Apple battery issue

That is an issue Apple is addressing that with an update. Check the Apple website.

[bluvg]

Parallels doesn't support Aero "Glass"

In other words, it doesn't have the same issue, because it doesn't support the feature that is the culprit of the power drain. This would be true of running Vista in a VM on any laptop regardless of manufacturer, since no virtualization solutions currently available have the graphics hardware support needed to run Aero "Glass."

On the other hand, the effect on battery life of running any OS in a VM... that I don't know. It certainly should reduce battery life some due to the additional overhead (particularly I/O and CPU), but the amount would be determined by the type and level of workload.

[bluvg]

Parallels doesn't support Aero

In other words, it doesn't have the same issue, because it doesn't support the feature that is the culprit of the power drain. This would be true of running Vista in a VM on any laptop regardless of manufacturer, since no virtualization solutions currently available have the graphics hardware support needed to run Aero "Glass."

On the other hand, the effect on battery life of running any OS in a VM... that I don't know. It certainly should reduce battery life some due to the additional overhead (particularly I/O and CPU), but the amount would be determined by the type and level of workload.

[ZeroJCF]

Running XP in Parallels...

I have a 2.33 MacBook Pro, and I get a good 1:40 of battery life
when running and using both XP and OS X applications. I would
hate to see what Vista would do to this. Vista has slowed down
every other PC I have put it on, so I am going to stick with XP for a
while.

[GGGlen]

Couldn't say

Dunno... just like the guys in accounting, Mac/Parallels guys like
me have found no reason to move to Vista.
After having used Vista, I can actually say (with a straight face), XP
is good enough.
Honestly, if it weren't for forced purchases of Vista (preloads), it'd
have been stillborn.

[Llib Setag]

Apples to Apples

Since Vista's "Aero" is a copy of Mac OSX "Aqua" interface, it
would be interesting to see a test that:
- Running the same tasks in battery modes on equally spec'd.
laptops ( PC & Mac ) with Vista / Aero & Mac OSX Aqua to see
what the OS/GUI to OS/GUI battery drain ratio is...
- MS Office tasks
- Same game activity
- watching same movie
-surfing the internet
-downloading & ripping music to CDR
-etc., etc.

Vista OS is just Win XP Server OS with a crappy copy of MAC OSX
Aqua GUI, not efficiently engineered at all...

[PCCRomeo]

And with notebook batteries already unstable...

What to do? Make batteries more powerful and have more
spontaneous combustions? Include two batteries with every
notebook until new battery technology comes out? Who knows...

[egarc--2008]

Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Assuming the household has one desktop and one laptop, if
everyone switches to fluorescent light bulbs and upgrades to Vista,
is your electric bill a wash?

Where's Greenpeace?

[gadgetjunkie1]

20+ Hour Per Charge External Laptop Battery

True it's somewhat of a power hog however Vista has some really cool features that I really like. I just recently installed Vista and I also noticed that it drained my already short lived internal laptop battery even more. My solution to the problem was to pickup a Portable Power Station from batterygeek.net which is now giving my laptop an additional 20+ hours of runtime per charge. For me it's an ideal solution because I can also recharge and power my cell phone, PSP and iPod Video with it.

[lim3light]

Nice

I love the comment, "In (Aero) mode, you will drain the battery faster, but you get something in return because it's cool and nice looking".

Sure, you'll only get about half the amount of work done, but it'll look cool.

[OS11]

Aero Contributes To Global Warming ! ! !

If Aero causes battery drain on a Laptop, just think what it does on a Desktop!

Think about it. Aero is so poorly programmed it massively contributes to Global Warming, for no reason other than MS can't find coders to keep the UI looking great, but not at the expensive of "energy".

So sad, so sad.

[Gasaraki]

No really...

The Aero interface uses the graphics processor to render the gui instead of just the cpu. In XP, the graphic processor goes in to low power mode when it's 3d processing power is not needed. In Vista they can't do that because the graphics processor is always being used while Aero is on. Of course it's going to use more energy.
The graphic makers need to develop chips that can do basic DX9 3d using very low power, this is the only way that power consumption in Vista is going to drop.

[john.ford1]

Vista Draining Batteries

I recently purchased a new HP laptop running Vista Premium and I am highly satisfied with my battery life. One must be smart when extending your power when power can become scarce. I try to run as few bells and whistles as possible while on battery only power, HP has done a marvelous job with their settings that a user can select. I think we should stop complaining and do something about it like change settings to what we need and not make blanket statements.

[weegg]

so you paid extra to not use all the capability

....sigh

[TechNewsJunky]

Microsoft: It's a "feature"

Yeah right.
They're "empowering" their users (to pick up the pieces)

[WJeansonne]

Turn-off Aero Interface!

Who needs it on a notebook anyway. It's largely a gimmick anyhow. It's perfect for desktops though!!

[bobmarksdale]

Which would accomplish...

well... you would be slightly more power efficient but then you would also be running basically xp. Why would you spend $300 for an OS if you are going to turn off the only feature that makes it even worth any money at all? It defeats the purpose of vista (dang, I just admitted it had one. Oh well.) In short: I hate M$ because they make inferior products and also vista because it is one of those inferior products.

[ZeroJCF]

Turn-off Vista...

....cuz it sucks.

[WJeansonne]

Turn-off Aero Interface!

Who needs it on a notebook anyway. It's largely a gimmick anyhow. It's perfect for desktops though!!

[Dr_Zinj]

VISTA IS NOT GREEN!

Vista is not an environmentally friendly OS.

It requires more memory, more hard drive space, 'bigger' CPUs; all of which burn even more energy.

The usual response is turn this, that, and the other options off or to minimum.

Well gee whiz. What kind of an OS do you have then? How many of you can say Windows 95???

[jatos]

98SE for me

Well I am using 98SE on my laptop!

[Kenny Yeung]

I agree that...

So you may get a apple computer with much more waste...
http://www.greenpeace.org/apple/

Get Linux with not much app can run on it and turn on the computer and waste the power all day long...

[bobbydi]

Not Only Aero

Microsoft also uses much power in other areas that it formerly stayed out of. Anti-virus is one- I turn off Security Center in XP and use my other antivirus that is much more power efficient. The graphics programs I use are more power efficient than Microsoft's graphics, not including Aero. Windows Media Player can still be great without trying to sell every song or video it plays. The pc user can find many places to buy the music/video- better than what Microsoft offers.

[caywen123]

Aero is the hotness - literally

I have an HP DV9000T with GeForce Go 7600. When I turn on Aero, my fan runs incessantly and the laptop begins to get uncomfortably hot.

Microsoft, did you bother to test this? Or did you, as usual, hire program managers with no common sense again?

Never saw a MacBook get this hot, yet all the nice visual effects (still better than Aero) are turned on.

Microsoft blew it.

[jjayguy23]

Vista, WHAT'S THE POINT??

I've used vista frequently on my Aunt and Uncles HP Pavillion laptop and it sucks. I can't believe how annoying it is. It's features seems so poorly implimented, from the Aero to search. I can't stand it. I will not be using it mainly instead of XP for a long time.

[boyd087]

What's your point?

Your statement lacks explanation. You say Vista is annoying but you don't say how. Is it because of UAC? That can be turned off, you know. How were Aero and search poorly implemented? (note: you spelled implemented wrong in your post) Aero seems fine to me. Is it necessary? Probably not, but one of the things Mac users complain about is how "dull" the XP interface is. As for search, what reasons do you have for saying this was poorly implemented? It's certainly faster and more intuitive than XP's search functionality IMO. Are you sure you're using it right? I definitely agree that a problem with Vista is that it drains laptop batteries faster, but I don't think it's other features are poorly implemented.