Comments on: Reality check for the much-hyped Origami PC

Microsoft's vision of cheap, pocket-size minitablet remains elusive goal. Will buyers wait for next generation?

[stevebor1]

Microsoft, software, ideas, solutions.

So, Before all the bashers and fanboys start commenting, Microsoft makes software, ideas, solutions. Yes its looking for a market, but its up to the manfactures to develope the hardware. Cant wait wait to see the 2nd gen.

ps. remember what the initial thought about the smartphone?

[gizmonationcom]

I think you guys may be lacking vision a little

I agree that this will not revolutionize the world over night, but neither did the iPod if you recall. I applaud MS for innovating rather than sitting back. Personally, I don't believe that PCs (or Macs) will always be boxes that sit on/under your desk nor will their mobile counterpart remain a clamshell-keyboard combination. Tablet PCs probably would have taken off if they weren?t so expensive.

This could be the form factor of the future. Battery life may prevent this version from revolutionizing the world but then again maybe not. Look at the PSP ? people drop $300+ and then purchase UMD movies for that thing and all it does is play games and movies. Some people are still dropping $400+ on PDAs that are really only good at calendar/contact management. Others are dropping $1000+ on mobile navigation systems for their cars and they only do GPS (have to buy an add-on GPS for Origami but still cheaper). I just spent $300 on an iPod and all it does is music and teeny-tiny video? I guess my point is that this device COULD replace all of those easily. (OK maybe not my iPod - for now).

Regarding pracitality - many sales people run their entire business from their car and this thing could be the default solution for entering data. In fact, sales people always take notes while on sales calls but would never whip out a laptop ? that would be tacky. Next time you have a sales person in your office imagine them pulling out a laptop, then contrast that image to them pulling out a little ?digital notepad? and jotting notes. The difference may seem small but it?s not.

I?m sure no one here pays attention to the Mac rumor sites, but there?s a very real possibility that MS just beat Mac to the punch with Origami as far as form-factor goes. I think that the success of the iPod combined with the fact that OS X is arguably a better OS may have finally opened Microsoft?s eyes a bit. Maybe they finally see that in the long-term they need to innovate or die. I don?t see them dying anytime soon. Bottom line: This is a cool product that could potentially revolutionize computing but it?s success hinges on Microsoft?s ability to market it.

For those of you who hate either MS or Apple or both please disregard this post ? none of my arguments make any sense if you refuse to acknowledge the fact that the world is becoming platform-agnostic.

[dotmike]

Well reasoned post, but nope, just haven't just the kool-aid!

You're right that computers in the FUTURE will be much different,
but this UMPC is taking such baby steps - a crippled way to run the
same old OS intended for a desktop - that the future is as far off as
ever.

Nice to dream though, and it's good you have more vision than
most people.

[gpenglase]

Next Big Thing

I believe that this is one of the few products which could claim a spot as the next big thing to happen in the PC revolution.

Being a previous owner of a Newton I saw the benefits of such a device and can see the future of a Net & GPS connected, computer-like, music/video, organiser, phone companion.

To day that Microsof tis innovating would be a strecth - Newton was an innovation, this is an attempt to do it better. As to Microsoft's ability to a make a consumer oriented device which actualy works and is reliable is very doubtful - Apple is more likely to come out with this than MS, who doesn't understand the consumer (or seem to care about them) , and Apple has shown with the iPod that it can take an existing idea (the music player) and turn it into a mainstream hit. With their Disney /Pixar connections they are better positioned to make it happen for video as well, and the iPod phone thing is really just a matter of time and logistics (commercial realities).

I'm excited about the prospect of a small device like the iPod providing me with the platform to add-on what I need (GPS/Net/software/viodeo/phone etc.) - however I think there are quite a few users who would avoid it if it were Tablet PC (MS) based due to the insecurities, unreliability (not to mention a lack of sytle). I mean really - who wants to carry around a device that contains everything important to you that constantly gets compromised by viruses etc, and requires a expensive software upgrade every year for no good feature-related benefit?

But whoever takes this market is going to have to work well with other partners to achieve it (Motorola/Nokis/Sony etc) and I can't see MS making much ground in the phone business sincet they are scared of MS and have made their own softare standard. I think it's Apple's market to lose at this stage.

[Bill Dautrive]

Innovate?

There is nothing innovative here. Not in the slightest. This is a rehashed idea, that is typically "nderfeatured and overpriced like everything else from Microsoft.

[GraveDigger27]

Newton 2.0?

Just like the original Tablet PCs and Apple Newton this appears to be a product in search of a market. It's too expensive (I can buy a inexpensive laptop that has a bigger screen, more storage and more capabilities for hundreds less (TigerDirect was selling a refurbished Gateway laptop with a faster Celeron processor, 60 gig HD, CD-RW/DVD combo drive, 15.4" screen and more for $599)) - why would I buy this thing? If I wanted small I can buy a PDA or even a Palm-OS or Windows-based mobile phone for less. I don't see this becoming the 'next big thing' under ANY circumstances...

[naterandrews]

Looks like a beefed up PMC to me

What makes this different than the Creative Zen Vision or other PMC's? I mean, sure, it's a little more powerful, some new software and a little bit of functionality added, but what makes this so life changing, significant, or amazing? I dont see the point. PDA's and smartphones can have the functionality of Origami devices, albiet with much smaller screen- but they still can do everything the Origami can.

[benjiernmd]

WOW!!!

Looks like Microsoft has gone the way Apple did with its Newton all
right! Bill Gates really learned a lot from Steve Jobs. For the first
time MS has an innovative product and behaves like Apple. Can I
use Newton OS or Mac OS X on it? Okay, then can I run Bayanihan
Linux in it? Can I? Can I? Please?

[thanhvn]

hurdles to _general_ mobile computing

On one extreme, there are PDAs, smart phones, and the like. They technically are mobile computing, but they are specialized devices adapted to specific tasks. On the other extreme, there are mobile laptops (the 10" varieties). They are for general computing, but they can be clunkly to carry out (not to mention power and cost). I believe there is, or will be, a market for general computing devices that falls somewhere between a PDA and a laptop in terms of mobility (as mentioned in several of the above posts). However, I see several hurdles to this yet unnamed class of devices:

1) Screen size: Face it, screen size limits what tasks you can do with the device. Now, the hurdle to overcome is a large screen size (say 10" or 12") that is portable (like a 5" or 6" tablet). Umm, folding screen technology?!

2) Power: Face it, processing power limits what tasks you can do with the device. Now, adding more CPU power is relatively easy (let's cut out form factor and cost for simplication sake). But this means more drain on battery. Brain matter have been on top of this for a long time without much success.

3) Cost: Face it, anything over $300 (USD) is out of reach of the vast majority of the developing populations. It may come down to this price, but not for a while.

4) Form factor: packing a large screen with plenty of cpu and battery will probably not very portable. Anything more than twice the size of a PDA will be clunky and it's not that much more to carry a 10" laptop. Will require a bit of engineering. We may get there, eventually.

So, my 2cents is a truly global success that'll change our lives forever (like the Internet did) won't happen unless all 4 hurdles above are successfully addressed.

[rejacob]

What about 'INSTANT ON' don't they underatand?

Without an 'Instant On' capability...or a two second or less boot up routine...this device will not sweep the user community.

What is the spec for boot time?...or return from standby time? I'd bet it's a long time for both.

That those specs were absent from the hoopla at release means that 'Turn it on and go' is not here yet.....and with 3 hours or less of battery life your Origami will be dead before lunch.

Nice try....but I'll wait for the second release.

[dotmike]

Agree so much I hardly even need to post!

Yes, that's exactly what I think too.

As a former owner of a Tablet PC before I eBay'd it, the startup
time was a big factor in my disatisfaction.

"Standby/sleep" was tolerable but drained the battery after a
day.

"Hibernation" was ideal in concept, but sluggish in operation,
taking 30 secs after deciding to use the tablet before being able
to. Forget jotting down spur of the moment thoughts.

I went back to a PDA, and a smart phone will be my next move.

[Thunderbuck]

It's coming... eventually

With the price drop in flash memory I'm betting we'll see a 6-10GB "system partition" that can immediately activate, with the system running in the flash memory.

I'd also bet that these UMPCs can suspend to "stand by" for an extended period of time; for many users this may be adequate.

[JFDMit]

Silk purses and sows' ears

It seems to me that the big problem with the current implementation of the UMPC is the operating system. WinXP is not a mobile OS. It was originally designed for desktops and laptops, machines that would generally be operated from a sitting position, using a keyboard and mouse, on mains power. It is therefore optimised for this 'use case,' and not for the very different activities that people need to perform when out and about.

Given the numerous iterations that MS's 'real' mobile OS (Windows Mobile) has gone through, you would have thought that MS would have learned a thing or two about the needs of mobile users. Seemingly not. They've shoehorned an overweight, resource-intensive OS (which runs similarly overweight applications) into a small device and are trying to convince everyone that it's the last word in mobility.

It should comes as no surprise, therefore, that the new UMPCs will only run for a couple of hours between charges, will overheat, will be slow and (worst of all) will take up to two minutes to boot.

Even networking hasn't been thought through properly. Truly mobile devices should have ubiquitous connectivity, seamlessly switching between LAN, Wi-Fi and cellular networks as required (like my Vaio TX does). The value of mobile computing largely lies in the currency and relevance of the information it contains, whether that is stock and order data, sports scores, supermarket specials, or severe weather warnings. Just being able to be carried around is no longer a useful definition of 'mobile.' It is the information that needs to be mobile, not just the device.

Which brings me to the question of the UMPC's size. It is clearly too large to be carried in a pocket and so will require some sort of case. This changes the ways in which it will be used. A PDA or Smartphone can be slipped into a pocket or purse at the same time as wallet, keys and glasses. The decision to carry it is automatic. The UMPC's size and power consumption means that requires a conscious decision to carry it (as well as its power pack, connectivity cables and external keyboard/mouse). It's uses, therefore, will be limited to those for which we currently use laptop PCs. So the question is, why not just use a laptop?

I was amused by one of the reports on the UMPC, saying that some models would have a 'clamshell' formfactor with a keyboard on one side. I think that's commonly known as a laptop, isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, I dearly hope that someone makes a truly useful mobile general purpose computer. To my mind, such a device would have a mobile-optimised OS, ubiquitous high speed networking (voice and data), lightweight or web-services based applications, instant-on, eight hour battery life, effective speech recognition and voice operation. While some of these capabilities are available now, some will have to wait for further advances in the relevant technologies. Whatever the case, Version 1.0 of the UMPC will be little more than a demonstration of manufacturers' ability to cram components into a small formfactor. We'll have to wait for 2.0 or, more likely, 3.0 before the promise of the device is realised.

[J.G.]

Unfolding Origami

I largely agree.

But, I would focus on the lack of a reliable input device as the main deal breaker. Thumb typing ain't gonna do it for most potential customers. I never got used to it on my Palms and eventually sold the last one, a Tungsten C. Blackberry folks, the best thumb typers out there, will find Origami devices redundant. The stylus will not be popular either. Typing with one is slow and one loses stylii. Needing to tote a keyboard turns the Origami device into something close to, but inferior to, a subcompact laptop.

[rleon]

Take a look at this

https://store.willcom-inc.com/ec/faces/w-zero3/index.jsp

The site is Japanese, but this thing it is very light, it is as heavy
as a mobile phone... because it is one but the price is very
accesible and it is fairly fast. I went to the store and took a look
at it... the bad thing is that I have allergy to MS Windows.

Now, the newton was not a bad product, and I think MS has lots
of chances to maket work because of the market share. Look at
the X Box, do you remember the Peepin, it was developed by
Apple and Bandai, but it did not work well neither, because there
werent many Mac Games... I think.

One of the biggest reasons the iPod is a hit, it is beacause is
compatible with other platforms. If Apple make the iPuter, or
what ever they called, with OS X or any System that say MacOS,
cahnces are that it would never be a hit, like the iPod is. And I
hope I`m wrong on this one, this is MHO.

As someone mentioned before, MS is not making the hardware,
just the software, so they do not have responsability if the
gadgets are not cool,

But if that thing are cool, and OS X going intel, some one might
end up with a OrigamOS X... but don`t tell Apple.

[osxfoundry]

It will fail....

This device will fail for several reasons:
- it's expensive
- it's ugly
- It does not provide anything better than what a Tablet PC
does.

I look at it and I see a Newton super-sized with a awkward
Design.
I don't think there is the need for this type of device unless it
integrates perfectly with your OS like iPod does with iTunes.

Apple Research Lab has built this type of device a long time ago.
Look at what happen to the Palm. It was supposedly the best
device and then it died. People don't want to learn a new writing
language, and they want to take note quickly. Keyboard is fast.

Anyway, this will be pulled out the market by next year.

[Montevale]

Origami? I used it for almost a year already...

What is so new about a small computer?
There is a whole bunch of them oQo, toshiba libretto, sharp zaurus, etc and a whole bunch of Tablets including the samallest LS800 from Motion Computing on the market already.
The first biggest problem with almost all of them they are too big and the batteries run out in 2hrs. The second biggest problem is data input - TEXT how the hell do you thumb it in?
Next OS from Microsoft will have a pen input recognition built in and it will allow you to train it to your style of writing. Current Tablt OS 2005 is pretty good at input by pen but there is not way to train it, so hopefully the next version will address this issue.
Only when you are able to write on the screen and convert your scribbles to text (100% right) it will get used, until that time it will remain in the vertical markets.
About the size... well, untill we have those flexi-screens available it will stay biger than your pda. However, current origami has a sort of better look, when I'm taking notes I would like something like a long and narrow pad, I think Apple with it's Newton was on the right track with that one. Once I'm done writing I can rotate the screen and have a wider field of view for things like internet surfing or spreadsheets.
I'm not sure who is designing thoses things... but most of the time it feels as if it was done by people who would never use them.

[Llib Setag]

Origami = UBER-NEWTON 2006

SEE LINK TO WIKIPEDIA ABOUT APPLE NEWTON (first PDA) 1993 - 1998

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton

Origami = Apple Newton + Palm + PSP + Wi-Fi + oQo + Intel = UBER NEWTON 2006!

What will Microsloth think of next?

[thebignoticeboard.com]

thebignoticeboard.com

i don't think that it is that revolutionary. it is okay, the design could
do with a bit of class and if they wacked on os x, then we'd have a
winner.

i tell you who could design a good looking one, apple. Put that
together with os x and i think it'd be great!!

[Mendz]

My wife and I like it...

It certainly is a first step so, yes, it might be worth waiting for the second or third waves which I expect to produce more powerful but thinner and lighter models.

Thin-flexi-screens are really what I am excited about in the near future. And of course, Wi-Fi/Wi-Max, integrated phone/messaging features (cellular? 3G? VoIP?), built-in TV/radio tuner and better battery life.

The best thing about all this is that I can carry my PC anywhere. Business/work stuffs? All in. Communications? All in. Entertainment? All in. Wow!!!

If I need a full PC feature with keyboard and mouse, all I need to find is a docking device. Something that looks really cool both in the house and in the office.

Dock indoors.

Mobile outdoors.

Meanwhile, my backup disks stay safe at home.

[theclaps]

Well

Your wife and you are idiots. I swear, there are Macintosh laptops smaller than this ****.

[Mendz]

My wife and I like it...

It certainly is a first step so, yes, it might be worth waiting for the second or third waves which I expect to produce more powerful but thinner and lighter models.

Thin-flexi-screens are really what I am excited about in the near future. And of course, Wi-Fi/Wi-Max, integrated phone/messaging features (cellular? 3G? VoIP?), built-in TV/radio tuner and better battery life.

The best thing about all this is that I can carry my PC anywhere. Business/work stuffs? All in. Communications? All in. Entertainment? All in. Wow!!!

If I need a full PC feature with keyboard and mouse, all I need to find is a docking device. Something that looks really cool both in the house and in the office.

Dock indoors.

Mobile outdoors.

Meanwhile, my backup disks stay safe at home.

[heavymickey]

Take it apart

If you want to use a mobile computer . .
- everywhere it'll get damaged; needs to be cheap
- without hands it needs to be attached to you
- while excercising it needs to be phone sized
- all day it needs to be recharged externally
- outdoors it needs a transreflective screen
- for highres apps it needs thin hot-plug visors
- without keys it needs writing/voice recognition

So if these Ultra-Mobiles want to live up to the name they need to address size by separating core from battery/storage/display, provide a practical way to wear several components, like an ammo belt,
use faster ports like ExpressCard+sleeved-cables, and provide enough of them for modular expansion.

Let me pick my own gps,umts,visor,kinetic-charger so a core can be used in a carPC or robot later. If new laptops can sell for $500 why can't cores? Negroponte knows it can; Intel isn't very amused!

[heavymickey]

Take it apart

If you want to use a mobile computer . .
- everywhere it'll get damaged; needs to be cheap
- without hands it needs to be attached to you
- while excercising it needs to be phone sized
- all day it needs to be recharged externally
- outdoors it needs a transreflective screen
- for highres apps it needs thin hot-plug visors
- without keys it needs writing/voice recognition

So if these Ultra-Mobiles want to live up to the name they need to address size by separating core from battery/storage/display, provide a practical way to wear several components, like an ammo belt,
use faster ports like ExpressCard+sleeved-cables, and provide enough of them for modular expansion.

Let me pick my own gps,umts,visor,kinetic-charger so a core can be used in a carPC or robot later. If new laptops can sell for $500 why can't cores? Negroponte knows it can; Intel isn't very amused!

[anonms]

Once again, Sony is way ahead of Microsoft

Sony had offered a Media Center-like software before Microsoft began offering XP MCE.

Now, Microsoft's Origami project comes months after Sony's U50/U70 have left the market, a product which offered the funcionality of the Origami project without the special software.

[zalakinc]

Too expensive

Sony's device is way too expensive, and when did they start selling it in usa? I htink origami is gonna be big but what they need is at least 16 hours battery life to make it worth my money. I have been looking for something like this for a couple of years now. finally!